Neck size or full length?

[mrawesome22]

I've done several searches and come up with several different answers on this. Should I only neck size my .22-250 brass since it will only be shot out of 1 rifle or should I full length size for my 700 VLS? Seems like guys are saying that if you neck size you have to do it all by feel? That can't be very consistent can it? And when I buy new brass will I have to size it first or does it come ready to load? Thanks for all the help guys. By the way, my Rock Chucker Supreme is on it's way to me from Midway. Can't wait to get everything else. Also, anyone have experience with Hornady dies?

[Doubletaptap]

Awesome I's want to size all the new brass before loading just to be sure.
If your gun is semi- auto I'd full size the shot brass before loading.
You're going to get a lot of different opinions on this.
Best thing to do is buy a couple reloading manuals and/or contact the manufacturer of the gun and ask a tech.
George

[DAVID NANCARROW]

I'll toss my .02 in. I reload for my Rem VS's in 308 and a Rem 700 in 270 win. Both are neck sized only. I will, at about the 7th or 8th reload do a full length resize on the cases.

For new brass, I will normally full length resize and trim to length, if nothing more than to make sure that all the brass is properly round and of the same length. You will occasionally get brass if you buy in bulk that has been dinged or squashed a bit and more oval than round.

Because I shoot two commonly available calibers, I will oftentimes buy loaded factory stuff on sale at the local Wally world or wherever. Usually comes out to about .50 per case or 10.00 a box around deer season.

Little more expensive than buying a lot of bulk brass, but I figure thats okay-stuff is already primed, powdered and bullet present. I use it for plinking and the target range, gather it up, tumble, neck size, and all the normal steps I do to new brass. Sort it by weight and load it up. Regardless, I will always cycle any handload I make to check for function.

I would full length resize for most any autoloader, pump or lever gun, but for bolts and single shots, its a neck size. The only exception is if I am going to be hunting dangerous game or where they might be present.

I'll give up a quarter minute of angle to make sure that I make it back to the campfire....

As to neck sizing by feel, I use the Lee collet neck sizing die, and you can absolutely feel the collet pressing the neck around the mandrel. I really like the collet dies because no lubricant is required. The only cases which gave me trouble in neck sizing are the nickel plated cases, which I will not use. They look pretty, but in my experience do not last as long as regular brass cases.

Consistancy is a matter of degree when you are reloading. For example, on new-once fired cases for my bolt guns, I will tumble the cases, neck size, uniform the primer pocket, get rid of the flash hole burr, trim to length and sort cases by weight. Some go further in the accuracy game and will turn the case necks to a common diameter, making sure the bullet pull is consistant and the brass is not thicker on one side than it is the other. Some will weigh the primers, some will segregate the bullets they are about to load by weight, some will hand measure every powder charge on a scale while others won't. They depend on the skill developed on their powder throwers.

Obviously, you can get quite anal about reloading. I do more than I probably need to for shooting no more than about 400-500 yards. But, I enjoy the hobby as much as I do shooting, and I know that every round I make is as consistant as I can make it. Therefore, if my groups start falling apart, the last place I am going to look for trouble is the ammo. It's either scope/sights/mounts/bedding/shooter technique for the most part.

Oh, and BTW, have fun!

[629 shooter]

I used to own a 700VLS in .223 and now own a 700LTR , also in .223. For new brass I go ahead and full length size everything. Then I know everything will chamber and the case mouths are actually round.

After the initial firing I usually neck size and the .223s have provided me with very good accuracy with this method. Although , I have had a lot of good results firing new FL sized brass as well.

Once you get more experienced at reloading you will eventually settle on a method which works best for you and your rifle/rifles.

Last week I added a .223 Contender to the mix. My first group with it was actually sub MOA and that was with new FL sized brass. My next range session will include neck size brass.

[Unclenick]

Mrawesome22,

As you may have gathered from David's response, there are specialty dies for neck size-only reloading that allow you to work the process consistently. The Lee Collet die is a good one. The Redding S die is another. The Lee has the advantage of requiring no lube of any kind. Nor does it require a neck expander. Also, there is no possibility of multiple reloadings in the Lee die causing the brass to form a "donut" constriction at the junction of the neck and shoulder of the case. The "dreaded donut" is formed by brass being flowed back on entry into a standard die. If you use standard dies, these constrictions must be reamed out periodically in order to use bullets seated deeply enough to get pinched by them. Otherwise, high pressure may result. Nonetheless, the Redding S dies have the advantage of interchangeable inserts that let you alter the neck sizing diameter by changing inserts. Redding also makes a full-length sizing die that employs these inserts just for the neck portion.

New bulk brass is taken from the same bins that feed factory loading machines, so it is made ready to load. If you think about it, you will realize that if it were made oversize the factory would then have to add a sizing step to their loading process. Why would they want the extra work when the brass forming dies will make it right for loading to start with? That said, the case mouths are annealed soft, so they dent easily. By the time the handling machinery has packaged it and it has been bounced around in shipping, the average case mouth is no longer as round as when it came off the forming dies. Running it over an expander usually corrects this. Carbide expanders are good for the purpose, since lube isn't required with them.

Some benchrest loaders and match shooters (Glen Zediker in particular) do not believe you should fire brass at pressures above which you intend to use it normally. Below is OK, but not above. Apparently there are measurable differences in how completely the brass fireforms to the chamber and how much it becomes work-hardened when that is increased by a higher pressure load. Now mind you, these are fussy people trying to squeeze that last 1/8 MOA out of a load just in case it occasionally turns an inside 9 into a scratch 10 on a bull’s eye. For hunting, these shots would be equally deadly; you would never benefit from the difference. Nonetheless, it satisfies the general principle of consistency in one's loading and shooting. From their point of view, once you've established a load, you should buy new brass that fires that one load only throughout its life.

I completely agree that hunting loads need to be more than neck-sized. You want them to feed follow-up shots quickly from a magazine and you want them to be insensitive to temperature changes. You don't want a neck-sized load developed in 60 degree spring weather under a covered firing point to become difficult to chamber in a sun-baked gun carried in the African veldt. It would be a bad and expensive time to discover the problem. That said, many shooters find that only sizing far enough to set the shoulder back about 0.002" is enough for feed reliability, even in most auto-loaders, so going all the way back to original size isn't necessary if you only use the rounds in one gun. My Garand's original military chamber is 0.007" over SAMMI minimum, and I've shot cases in sized to about .005" over SAMMI minimum in it for years and never had a failure to feed or fire. Redding makes shell holders with different thicknesses so you can bottom-out a standard F.L. sizing die against them, but be resizing less than true full length. You buy a set and pick the one that gets you to 0.002” setback. By sizing the brass minimally, it takes more firings to stretch it enough to cause casehead separations.

Nick

[Scorch]

Here's my take on all this, coming from 35 years of reloading:
I also shoot a 22-250 bolt action rifle. I neck size only, using Lee collet dies. Before I got the Lee collet dies, I used a neck sizing die.

The reason for my using neck sizing was a friend of mine who was a benchrest shooter told me my brass would last longer. Before I started neck sizing, I was only getting about 5 reloads out of my brass before I saw split necks and other signs of overworked brass. After I started just neck sizing, I get about 10 reloads out of my brass before I start to see split necks and such. Now I resize and inspect my brass, and at the first signs of splits I throw the whole batch away and use new brass.

Since you will be shooting the ammo in the same rifle it was first fired in, it shouldn't be a problem to just neck size. If you full-length resize, it won't harm anything.

[mrawesome22]

O.K. Thanks for the replies all. After reading and thinking about it, I think I'm going to FL size just to be sure my new brass is all the same. Anyone have an opinion on their favorite trimmer? I think I'm leaning toward the Forster Original Case Trimmer Kit.

[Dave Haven]

I like the L. E. Wilson trimmer.

[918v]

It is interesting that Scortch sees a 100% improvement in case life when both the neck and the FL dies size the neck to the same degree.

[Scorch]

918v-
The Lee collet dies do not resize the case neck in the same manner that regular dies do. They do not squeeze the neck down smaller than caliber and then expand it out to caliber with an expander ball. They squeeze the neck against a mandrel to size it. Works the brass less?? That's the only difference I can think of.

I use a Lyman trimmer.

[Unclenick]

Scorch,

Yes, the collet die works the brass less. An expander ball makes the neck flex out and in an extra time, which is skipped. The work that goes into flowing brass back to form the "dreaded donut" doesn't happen in it either.

Nick

[918v]

Sizing a case fired in a factory chamber works the brass regardless of which method you use. While the collet die may work the brass less, it still works the brass alot and introduces sharp indentations that will later become fracture points.

I think the improvement you see is more likely an improvement in brass quality over the years.

I think the Lee collet die produces the most concentric cases from oversized factory chambers, but the collet needs some internal polishing to eliminate those sharp indentations.

[Buckythebrewer]

The neck sized brass is worked less because it only expands to the chamber dimensions once (after you have fired it in your chamber using a full length die)and then only your neck expands when firing after..The brass will last longer in my experience..