Hand Priming Advice Needed

haskins02 · September 20, 2012, 02:06 PM

I’m struggling a bit with the Auto Prime XR hand priming tool which came with my Lee Challenger kit. While I never considered my grip strength to be weak, I find I have to use all my strength, using both thumbs, to prime a .308 case (large primers). I can feel the primer go into the primer pocket relatively easily, but unless I continue to press REALLY hard, the primer will stick out a tiny bit and I cannot remove the case from the Auto Prime (it gets stuck and I have to take the whole thing apart and start all over). Reversing the angle and using my fingers instead of my thumbs doesn’t help either. After priming just 25 cases, my thumbs are so sore I have to stop.

Is there something wrong with my technique? Are there other hand priming tools which have significantly more leverage? Perhaps I should just get the Lee Safety prime and use my press to prime and forget about hand priming. Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg

jmortimer · September 20, 2012, 02:11 PM

Did you lube the friction points? It should not take a huge effort to get the primers flush.

jimbob86 · September 20, 2012, 02:16 PM

Are your primer pockets clean?

If not, then yeah, it will take some effort to get them to seat flush.

GeeJ · September 20, 2012, 03:16 PM

I've recently been learning to reload 308 myself. Though I don't have the Lee hand priming tool, I am using the Hornaday priming tool but both work basically the same way. One thing you might need to consider is whether you are using commercial brass or military brass.

I am almost certain there is a distinct difference in primer pocket size between the two. In fact many of the cartridge dimensions will defer between the two. If anybody here knows better than I, please chime in. As I said, I am still learning myself. It's at least worth a check.

jimbob86 · September 20, 2012, 03:19 PM

Quote:

One thing you might need to consider is whether you are using commercial brass or military brass

.mil brass often has a crimp to keep primers from coming out and jacking up the works of an automatic weapon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVpkkHFMKjo

rebs · September 20, 2012, 03:22 PM

Quote:

I've recently been learning to reload 308 myself. Though I don't have the Lee hand priming tool, I am using the Hornaday priming tool but both work basically the same way. One thing you might need to consider is whether you are using commercial brass or military brass.

I am almost certain there is a distinct difference in primer pocket size between the two. In fact many of the cartridge dimensions will defer between the two. If anybody here knows better than I, please chime in. As I said, I am still learning myself. It's at least worth a check.
GeeJ is online now Report Post

I wouldn't think there is a big difference ion the primer pocket size of a 223 compared to a 5.56, just that the 5.56 will be crimped in place and you have to remove the crimp before putting in a new primer.
Alos both cases take the same small rifle primer. If there was a significant difference then one or the other would require a different size primer

**Unclenick** · September 20, 2012, 04:47 PM

He's talking .308, not .223.

There is, in fact, a significant difference in primer pocket tolerances in some brands of brass. I've got IMI .308 match brass that is new and never crimped that I still have to use a primer pocket swaging tool with to be able to seat by feel. So I think that's what the OP may need to do. The RCBS tool for presses should work with the Lee press, too. The alternative is a primer pocket reamer to size the pocket. These are available from several companies.

jcwit · September 20, 2012, 04:50 PM

Quote:

I am almost certain there is a distinct difference in primer pocket size between the two. In fact many of the cartridge dimensions will defer between the two. If anybody here knows better than I, please chime in. As I said, I am still learning myself. It's at least worth a check.

There is no difference in primer size. Usually military cases have the primer crimped, but then not always. If in fact the primer is crimped the crimp needs to be removed either by swaging or be cutting it away. You will then end up with the same as a commercial case ready for reloading.

haskins02 · September 20, 2012, 08:47 PM

Thanks for the input. I am using Winchester brass for .308 - certainly not military. I have not lubed any parts of the Auto prime. I'll give that a try. Any reason to believe other hand primer tools do the job with significantly less effort? Thanks.

Greg

old roper · September 21, 2012, 09:30 AM

haskins02, As was mention before primer pockets vary and one of these will help
http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pi...-Uniformer-Kit

Here another company http://www.shooters-supply.com/reloading_equipment.html

This is the one I use it's listed as the Whitetail primer pocket uniformer
http://www.shooters-supply.com/photo...rUniformer.jpg

Hope the above helps

jmortimer · September 21, 2012, 09:38 AM

"Any reason to believe other hand primer tools do the job with significantly less effort?"
That is a good question. I only have two old school Lee Precision Auto Prime tools. Looking at the newest model, the Ergo-Prime, I want to try it out. Never had a problem with the older ones, but the Ergo-Prime looks good. Regardless, I will always hand-prime off the press - it is easy, fast, and I can inspect each one. Try the lube and the pocket clean-up and you should be good to go. Since you already have the Lee Precision shell holders, it might be worth trying the Ergo-Prime as you could always return it.

jcwit · September 21, 2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Any reason to believe other hand primer tools do the job with significantly less effort? Thanks.

Can't really say. I have and use the Older Lee Auto Prime, the real old Lee Priming tools with the screw in shell holders, the Hornady hand primer, and a K & M Priming tool. All of them take some effort to seat primers but have never been much of an issue, at least not that I think and I even have gnarled fingers from arthritis.

I get along with all of them just fine even when priming hundreds of cases at a time.

JKilbreth · September 21, 2012, 01:17 PM

I noticed the same issue (though perhaps not to the same extent as the OP) when I started hand priming my .308 WIN and .45LC cases with the Lee hand primer.

Cleaning the primer pocket helped me a little, but I found that (as I initially used a lot of found brass and mixed brass) the most helpful thing was to make sure my primer brand and brass cases were compatible. Such warnings ad instructions can be found in your Lee equipment instructions.

When they say don't mix Winchester brass and Fiocchi primers, they mean it! Took me 12 "failure to fire" rounds to give myself a kick in the pants to remind myself to read the instructions and warnings before using Lee reloading equipment.

Ralph Allen · September 21, 2012, 01:46 PM

I use an RCBS hand priming tool. No problems and great feel. My 308 loads are for precision, so always get primer pockets cleaned before repriming.
Ralph

**Unclenick** · September 21, 2012, 04:13 PM

Haskins02,

I just realized we've omitted to discuss the other side of the equation. The primers don't all have the same tolerance, either. I really like the Russian primers (Wolf and TulAmmo) for performance consistency, but they are distinctly more difficult to seat than a Federal or Winchester primer or even than some CCI primers (which used to be the hard ones to seat before they revised their cup forming method). I don't know what primers you are using, but it can have an effect.

As to other tools, on the K&M tool you can unscrew the head until you maximize the ram leverage at the end of the priming stroke. But I'm surprised the Lee is giving you grief. If you want the easiest slip fit into a primer pocket, the Wilson case trimmer and their primer pocket profile cutting tool will give you that, but it's slow work if you have many hundreds of cases.

Lapua does make a small primer pocket version of the .308 case, but that kind of size difference is pretty obvious.

Strafer Gott · September 21, 2012, 04:42 PM

I found an old RCBS priming press, and use it exclusively. It's nice and portable. I broke one of the Lee hand jobbies clean off with excessive thumb pressure, and I bet I'm not alone. I never have to wonder if I seated the primer to full depth with the little green press.

haskins02 · September 21, 2012, 10:46 PM

I'm using CCI primers with Winchester .308 brass. I am also cleaning the primer pockets first using the Lee primer pocket cleaning tool. Seems I am in the minority having difficulty hand priming.

SHR970 · September 21, 2012, 11:04 PM

Win white box is in some cases S&B; especially in the metric calibers. S&B is well known for tight primer pockets....at least well credited on line.

It is possible that the brass the OP is using happens to be S&B......I would need a little more info before positing an opinion on the issue at hand.

jag2 · September 22, 2012, 10:50 AM

From my experience, a couple of people have touched on it. I'm a fan of the older Lee Auto Prime but I have broken one. The Wolf (Tula) primers have a well deserved reputation for being very tight. Not saying that is bad, they just are. The hardest priming job for me is Wolf large pistol in 45 cap cases, that is what I was doing when the handle broke. I bought the Lee Ergo (plus a couple of others that are now in the back of the closet) and use it for the Wolf/45 and use the old Auto prime for everything else. I figure that will save the wear and tear on the Auto prime and help me make sure the Wolf/45 is set properly. When you consider how long a priming tool will last (and they aren't that expensive) why not keep trying new ones til you find the combination you like. If money is tight you can probably take the ones you don't like and sell or trade them at a gun show, at least you'll get a little bit of your money back.

haskins02 · September 22, 2012, 12:33 PM

Thanks SHR970, I believe I am using Winchester .308 cases from white box cartridges. I have not tried other brands yet with my new Auto Prime. I’ve got some Federal brass and some never fired Remington brass. I’ll load up some rounds with both – see if it makes a difference – both in terms of priming ease and accuracy with my favorite load.

**Unclenick** · September 22, 2012, 01:40 PM

Old Winchester brass did not have tight primer pockets, but I don't know if Global Brass or someone else is making the current stuff. There have been complaints about primer pockets widening too soon in the newer .223. Federal tends to be soft, so don't run full power loads in it. Try to keep it in the lower half of the load range. You can tell us if the Remington seems any different.

Assuming this is a bolt rifle and not a gas gun, try a box of Federal primers to see if they feel any different.

saitek · September 22, 2012, 08:16 PM

man i have chad no problems with winchester brass , priming .have done winchester,imi,rp,federal all with the auto prime xr . my grip strength is not the best . how are you holding it the smooth handel should be aginst the web of your hand .i put a peice of 1/2 dense foam on the paddel to cushin your fingers . i use a rcbs bench mount primer pocket swager on military crimped brass .i use the auto prime xr also .
lee does make a newer hand primer installer called the ergo prime
https://fsreloading.com/ergo_prime-90250.html
maybe this will work better for you .

Pond, James Pond · September 23, 2012, 03:21 AM

I can't offer an alternative, but I can offer my sympathy.

I, too, need to use both thumbs to prime my cases, and so far I'm only reloading large and small pistol primers!!

I've not yet reached a point where I can't prime anymore (most I've primed is about a 150 cases in a stretch), but my thumb has certainly felt pummeled!!

I don't see myself changing to another system, but I hope you find a vialbe solution.

Lost Sheep · September 23, 2012, 03:31 AM

I have used hand primers, but prefer to prime on-press. I get good leverage, no problem. I do not feel I lose any sensitivity of feeling. Here's why: When I have to use a lot of force, my sensitivity is diminished. I do have a lot of leverage using the press, but just use my fingers on the press' lever arm and can tell how the primers are seating very well.

It helps that I can adjust my press' lever arm to position it close to the press' frame so I can have both in my grip and tell very easily how much movement and resistance is involved in seating the primers.

Lost Sheep

haskins02 · September 23, 2012, 01:51 PM

I also had difficulty priming new .308 Remington cases with CCI primers. So I think the problem is me - I must have weaker hands than I thought, despite weight training 3 times a week and doing grip exercises. I plan to buy the Lee Safety Prime to go with my Lee press and prime off the press in the future.

September 20, 2012, 02:06 PM	#1
haskins02 Member Join Date: May 10, 2009 Posts: 29	Hand Priming Advice Needed I’m struggling a bit with the Auto Prime XR hand priming tool which came with my Lee Challenger kit. While I never considered my grip strength to be weak, I find I have to use all my strength, using both thumbs, to prime a .308 case (large primers). I can feel the primer go into the primer pocket relatively easily, but unless I continue to press REALLY hard, the primer will stick out a tiny bit and I cannot remove the case from the Auto Prime (it gets stuck and I have to take the whole thing apart and start all over). Reversing the angle and using my fingers instead of my thumbs doesn’t help either. After priming just 25 cases, my thumbs are so sore I have to stop. Is there something wrong with my technique? Are there other hand priming tools which have significantly more leverage? Perhaps I should just get the Lee Safety prime and use my press to prime and forget about hand priming. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks, Greg

September 20, 2012, 04:47 PM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	He's talking .308, not .223. There is, in fact, a significant difference in primer pocket tolerances in some brands of brass. I've got IMI .308 match brass that is new and never crimped that I still have to use a primer pocket swaging tool with to be able to seat by feel. So I think that's what the OP may need to do. The RCBS tool for presses should work with the Lee press, too. The alternative is a primer pocket reamer to size the pocket. These are available from several companies. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

September 21, 2012, 09:30 AM	#10
old roper Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Posts: 2,155	haskins02, As was mention before primer pockets vary and one of these will help http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pi...-Uniformer-Kit Here another company http://www.shooters-supply.com/reloading_equipment.html This is the one I use it's listed as the Whitetail primer pocket uniformer http://www.shooters-supply.com/photo...rUniformer.jpg Hope the above helps __________________ Semper Fi Vietnam 1965 VFW Life member NRA Life Member

September 21, 2012, 04:13 PM	#15
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Haskins02, I just realized we've omitted to discuss the other side of the equation. The primers don't all have the same tolerance, either. I really like the Russian primers (Wolf and TulAmmo) for performance consistency, but they are distinctly more difficult to seat than a Federal or Winchester primer or even than some CCI primers (which used to be the hard ones to seat before they revised their cup forming method). I don't know what primers you are using, but it can have an effect. As to other tools, on the K&M tool you can unscrew the head until you maximize the ram leverage at the end of the priming stroke. But I'm surprised the Lee is giving you grief. If you want the easiest slip fit into a primer pocket, the Wilson case trimmer and their primer pocket profile cutting tool will give you that, but it's slow work if you have many hundreds of cases. Lapua does make a small primer pocket version of the .308 case, but that kind of size difference is pretty obvious. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; September 21, 2012 at 04:38 PM.

September 22, 2012, 01:40 PM	#21
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Old Winchester brass did not have tight primer pockets, but I don't know if Global Brass or someone else is making the current stuff. There have been complaints about primer pockets widening too soon in the newer .223. Federal tends to be soft, so don't run full power loads in it. Try to keep it in the lower half of the load range. You can tell us if the Remington seems any different. Assuming this is a bolt rifle and not a gas gun, try a box of Federal primers to see if they feel any different. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

September 20, 2012, 02:11 PM	#2
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	Did you lube the friction points? It should not take a huge effort to get the primers flush.

September 20, 2012, 02:16 PM	#3
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Are your primer pockets clean? If not, then yeah, it will take some effort to get them to seat flush.

September 20, 2012, 03:16 PM	#4
GeeJ Junior Member Join Date: August 9, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 14	I've recently been learning to reload 308 myself. Though I don't have the Lee hand priming tool, I am using the Hornaday priming tool but both work basically the same way. One thing you might need to consider is whether you are using commercial brass or military brass. I am almost certain there is a distinct difference in primer pocket size between the two. In fact many of the cartridge dimensions will defer between the two. If anybody here knows better than I, please chime in. As I said, I am still learning myself. It's at least worth a check.

September 20, 2012, 08:47 PM	#9
haskins02 Member Join Date: May 10, 2009 Posts: 29	Thanks for the input. I am using Winchester brass for .308 - certainly not military. I have not lubed any parts of the Auto prime. I'll give that a try. Any reason to believe other hand primer tools do the job with significantly less effort? Thanks. Greg

September 21, 2012, 09:38 AM	#11
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	"Any reason to believe other hand primer tools do the job with significantly less effort?" That is a good question. I only have two old school Lee Precision Auto Prime tools. Looking at the newest model, the Ergo-Prime, I want to try it out. Never had a problem with the older ones, but the Ergo-Prime looks good. Regardless, I will always hand-prime off the press - it is easy, fast, and I can inspect each one. Try the lube and the pocket clean-up and you should be good to go. Since you already have the Lee Precision shell holders, it might be worth trying the Ergo-Prime as you could always return it.

September 21, 2012, 01:17 PM	#13
JKilbreth Member Join Date: May 10, 2012 Location: Georgia Posts: 97	I noticed the same issue (though perhaps not to the same extent as the OP) when I started hand priming my .308 WIN and .45LC cases with the Lee hand primer. Cleaning the primer pocket helped me a little, but I found that (as I initially used a lot of found brass and mixed brass) the most helpful thing was to make sure my primer brand and brass cases were compatible. Such warnings ad instructions can be found in your Lee equipment instructions. When they say don't mix Winchester brass and Fiocchi primers, they mean it! Took me 12 "failure to fire" rounds to give myself a kick in the pants to remind myself to read the instructions and warnings before using Lee reloading equipment.

September 21, 2012, 01:46 PM	#14
Ralph Allen Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2007 Posts: 436	I use an RCBS hand priming tool. No problems and great feel. My 308 loads are for precision, so always get primer pockets cleaned before repriming. Ralph

September 21, 2012, 04:42 PM	#16
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	I found an old RCBS priming press, and use it exclusively. It's nice and portable. I broke one of the Lee hand jobbies clean off with excessive thumb pressure, and I bet I'm not alone. I never have to wonder if I seated the primer to full depth with the little green press.

September 21, 2012, 10:46 PM	#17
haskins02 Member Join Date: May 10, 2009 Posts: 29	I'm using CCI primers with Winchester .308 brass. I am also cleaning the primer pockets first using the Lee primer pocket cleaning tool. Seems I am in the minority having difficulty hand priming.

September 21, 2012, 11:04 PM	#18
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	Win white box is in some cases S&B; especially in the metric calibers. S&B is well known for tight primer pockets....at least well credited on line. It is possible that the brass the OP is using happens to be S&B......I would need a little more info before positing an opinion on the issue at hand.

September 22, 2012, 10:50 AM	#19
jag2 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: dallas Posts: 773	From my experience, a couple of people have touched on it. I'm a fan of the older Lee Auto Prime but I have broken one. The Wolf (Tula) primers have a well deserved reputation for being very tight. Not saying that is bad, they just are. The hardest priming job for me is Wolf large pistol in 45 cap cases, that is what I was doing when the handle broke. I bought the Lee Ergo (plus a couple of others that are now in the back of the closet) and use it for the Wolf/45 and use the old Auto prime for everything else. I figure that will save the wear and tear on the Auto prime and help me make sure the Wolf/45 is set properly. When you consider how long a priming tool will last (and they aren't that expensive) why not keep trying new ones til you find the combination you like. If money is tight you can probably take the ones you don't like and sell or trade them at a gun show, at least you'll get a little bit of your money back.

September 22, 2012, 12:33 PM	#20
haskins02 Member Join Date: May 10, 2009 Posts: 29	Thanks SHR970, I believe I am using Winchester .308 cases from white box cartridges. I have not tried other brands yet with my new Auto Prime. I’ve got some Federal brass and some never fired Remington brass. I’ll load up some rounds with both – see if it makes a difference – both in terms of priming ease and accuracy with my favorite load.

September 22, 2012, 08:16 PM	#22
saitek Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2011 Location: iowa Posts: 100	instaling primers man i have chad no problems with winchester brass , priming .have done winchester,imi,rp,federal all with the auto prime xr . my grip strength is not the best . how are you holding it the smooth handel should be aginst the web of your hand .i put a peice of 1/2 dense foam on the paddel to cushin your fingers . i use a rcbs bench mount primer pocket swager on military crimped brass .i use the auto prime xr also . lee does make a newer hand primer installer called the ergo prime https://fsreloading.com/ergo_prime-90250.html maybe this will work better for you .

September 23, 2012, 03:21 AM	#23
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	I can't offer an alternative, but I can offer my sympathy. I, too, need to use both thumbs to prime my cases, and so far I'm only reloading large and small pistol primers!! I've not yet reached a point where I can't prime anymore (most I've primed is about a 150 cases in a stretch), but my thumb has certainly felt pummeled!! I don't see myself changing to another system, but I hope you find a vialbe solution. __________________ When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.

September 23, 2012, 03:31 AM	#24
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	I prime on-press I have used hand primers, but prefer to prime on-press. I get good leverage, no problem. I do not feel I lose any sensitivity of feeling. Here's why: When I have to use a lot of force, my sensitivity is diminished. I do have a lot of leverage using the press, but just use my fingers on the press' lever arm and can tell how the primers are seating very well. It helps that I can adjust my press' lever arm to position it close to the press' frame so I can have both in my grip and tell very easily how much movement and resistance is involved in seating the primers. Lost Sheep

September 23, 2012, 01:51 PM	#25
haskins02 Member Join Date: May 10, 2009 Posts: 29	I also had difficulty priming new .308 Remington cases with CCI primers. So I think the problem is me - I must have weaker hands than I thought, despite weight training 3 times a week and doing grip exercises. I plan to buy the Lee Safety Prime to go with my Lee press and prime off the press in the future.