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May 22, 2009, 12:12 AM | #1 |
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El Monte and Alabama excessive force incidents and End of Chase Syndrome
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline...d-beating.html
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/20/...ng/#cnnSTCText http://www.ktla.com/news/local/ktla-...,7041275.story End of Chase “There is a reason you separate military and police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.” (Borrowed a quote from a line in BSG, I believe it is apt to this discussion) We all remember the video of the El Monte Police officer kicking a compliant suspect in the head at gunpoint. We had a discussion about it that was locked down due to personal attacks by some members, including me. This will not happen in this thread. If it does, I will assure you that a MOD will shut it down post haste and deal with the people who can't discuss a topic without attacking the poster. (emphasis added by Antipitas) I am ex military police/investigations and served in a civilian police department in Texas. Total LE experience just shy of 14 years. The El Monte incident was not the only incident in recent news to attract my attention. There were 5 Alabama Officers fired after a video surfaced showing them beating an unconscious suspect after a chase. By some reports this video is over a year old and was viewed by several LE supervisors, several in the LE community and Prosecuting Attorneys. Yet not one of them thought something was wrong until the trial. During the trial, the Prosecuting Attorney did not have his edited copy so he asked the defense to borrow their copy. The current Prosecuting Attorney had not seen the entire tape, it was a surprise. Think about that. 5 officers beating the hell out of an unconscious suspect, not a threat to anyone, maybe in need of medical attention at the time himself, not one person thought that this might be wrong. Our Constitution either means something or it does not. If one persons rights are abused, criminals included, we all suffer for it. Those abuses that begin on criminals, end up on the law abiding citizen. Higher ups in several departments involved saw this video, and no one scratched their head and said, um, wait a minute. It took a year to surface. That folks is sad and alarming at the same time. These officers were fired, and I believe they need to be charged and prosecuted for several crimes that IMO they are guilty of under color of law. Same with the El Monte Officer, another report has yet another El Monte officer striking the same suspect, but video did not capture it. That kick he gave to the suspect on the ground did not serve any LE purpose. None at all. In the past few days I have had the time to speak with some old friends, some retired LE some current, and all of them agree on what a “distraction blow” is. And they all agree that you never should deliver one, alone, and holding a suspect at gunpoint. Now I believe both of these instances are a result of 2 things. End of chase syndrome and the growing militant behavior/training of today’s peace officers. The militant attitude that is all consuming in today’s LE is scary. Police should not act like soldiers. Soldiers are trained to kill, period. They are trained to seek out an enemy and kill. They have that mindset instilled during basic training and advanced training. In police schools across the country, that same mindset is being taught. And this is where the two jobs, military and police, clash. A police officers job is not to kill an enemy. It is to prevent crime and arrest those who are a danger to the populace, and to do that while respecting established laws and the civil rights of the population, that also includes the civil rights of the suspect/criminal. Police are not soldiers in a war. There is not a war going on in any state where the police need to be militant. If there were, you would here about multiple officers being killed by criminals nightly on every news network. So I don’t want to hear any BS about “it’s a war out there”. I was a cop when the war on drugs was started, and it was BS then, and its BS now. End of chase syndrome is defined as: police beatings like this have no logical explanation why they happen, some cops have described a feeling of excitement during a high speed pursuit. This feeling now has a name. It is called High-Speed Pursuit Syndrome. High-Speed Syndrome is described as a mix between fear, excitement, and adrenaline. This syndrome cause the officer to vent all these emotions on the suspect at the end of the pursuit It is my opinion that the militant attitudes and training only aggravate this syndrome to the nth degree. Some folks can’t handle being in LE. I now work in a dangerous industry, Oil and Gas exploration. I know what whenever I step on a location I could be killed. H2S gas, well kick, explosion are among but a few dangers. Some stuff on an Oil rig will hurt you, most will KILL you. My point, don’t try to excuse actions that are wrong by saying that the suspect was the reason you chased them. Or the suspect shot at me. I have worn a badge. You wanted to do the job as a police officer, you knew the risks that come with the job, so do it. There is no excuse for actions as seen in these 2 incidents. No excuse. More training in civil rights is needed in today’s LE schools. Rights that everybody has, suspects included. Police officers should know that the rights of the populace come first. They should be educated more on End of Chase Syndrome and how to realize the signs just like a fighter pilot receives g-force training and hopefully can see a black out before it happens. Lets discuss this, nicely and with an attempt to see if there is a solution.
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May 22, 2009, 09:38 AM | #2 |
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Very nice post. It's almost out of an aggression and violence lecture plus a touch of authoritarianism from a social psych class. Maintaining our values in the face of provocation is an indicator of civilized society.
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May 22, 2009, 11:09 AM | #3 | |
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May 22, 2009, 11:28 AM | #4 | ||
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May 22, 2009, 01:49 PM | #5 | |||
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Quote:
Another issue is this; Quote:
When my hitch was up I left the military with a technical background, and went into a technical field, I brought with me many of the skills and thought-processes that I used during my service. I would think that same thing would apply to someone who came out of a combat/peacekeeping MOS and went into LE. You might receive additional LE training, but some "skills" just don't get "turned off". Additionally, the "militarization" of LEAs is becoming more apparent; IE: Uniforms are now adaptations of BDU's Agencies have humvees, APCs, and a general military e'spirit de corps. I am certain that these esoteric appearances are not the only military manifestations that exist in LE today. Another issue is this; Quote:
And, the immunity from prosecution for crimes committed "In the line of duty" that LE enjoys is another huge problem.
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WITHOUT Freedom of Thought, there can be no such Thing as Wisdom; and no such Thing as public Liberty, without Freedom of Speech. Silence Dogood Does not morality imply the last clear chance? - WildAlaska - Last edited by OuTcAsT; May 22, 2009 at 01:57 PM. |
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May 22, 2009, 02:00 PM | #6 | |
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When I went through a civilian academy, we were called Peace Officers, not LEO. LE was part of what a Peace Officer did, but he/she did it knowing the risks involved.
I know that some officers leave infantry, force recon, Spec Ops and such to become police officers. IMO That should not happen if you are a 15 year vet of special ops, you really don't need to go straight in to civilian LE. Folks with some MOS's should be banned from being in LE. I am reminded of an incident, I believe it was in CA during the riots. Police were being aided by a Marine unit, I do not remember if the unit was active or reserve, I do think the marines were combat trained, MOS. Police officers were partnered up with marines. A call came in of a shooting. IIRC, 2 officers and 2 marines responded. Shots were still being fired, not in the direction of the police and marines. One of the officers wanted to move to a better vantage point and yelled at the marines to "cover me". Well, they covered him as they had been trained to, by putting several hundred rounds into the house where the shooting suspect was held up. This is why some military MOS training should bar you from LE work, period. Quote:
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Civilian Date: 14 Century 1 : a specialist in Roman or modern civil law. If you are not subject to the UCMJ, you are a Civilian. I don't care one bit what updated dictionaries say. Last edited by Dust Monkey; May 22, 2009 at 02:44 PM. |
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May 22, 2009, 02:38 PM | #7 | |
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I am not in LE and one reason is I doubt I could haul some criminals to jail without stoppin off in a dark alley along the way and adrenaline wouldn't even be involved... just plain ol' "pre-trial justice"... Brent |
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May 22, 2009, 04:50 PM | #8 | |
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May 22, 2009, 05:35 PM | #9 |
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Al, I hope that wasn't sarcastic as I agree with the statement fully. I am also not willing to try brain surgery just like many folks won't attempt to repair their car on their own
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May 22, 2009, 08:17 PM | #10 |
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Nah Brent. Just trying to show (with good natured humor) that common sense isn't quite dead.... Maybe I'll just stick to swinging the scythe.
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May 22, 2009, 08:35 PM | #11 |
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Thanx, I was hopin' that was an attempt at humor or agreement... I admit I wouldn't be able to deal with a bunch of the riff raff with out takin' it over the line...
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May 22, 2009, 08:50 PM | #12 |
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Come on guys. Let's not interject common sense into this. Folks might get the wrong idea that we are trying to have an actual civil discussion.
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May 22, 2009, 11:07 PM | #13 | |
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Granted that in the two incidents in the original post the officers were "caught red handed" as it were, and suffered a loss of job as a punishment, but as I pointed out earlier LE is usually immune to prosecution in a criminal manner. While they may yet be tried in civil court, and punitive damages may result, that is not enough. An example which remains in my mind is a case I have discussed here before, a resident of my community was shot and killed by two local LEOs when they kicked in the door of the wrong address to serve a warrant, the homeowner thought he was being robbed, produced a weapon to protect himself, and was killed. The result was a loss of job, and a hefty civil settlement. Why ? Because they were acting under "color of law" and an accident happened. I would think the first barrier that needs to be broken down is this kind of "immunity". If LE had to operate under the same ROE as any other citizen, and with the same consequences possible, this would be a good first step. Assault someone during an attack of "end of chase" syndrome ? Get charged with aggravated assault, weapon also involved ? how about ADW. Break down the wrong door? Breaking and entering. someone get hurt ? Aggravated burglary. Someone killed? Criminally Negligent Homicide or 2nd degree murder. With all due respect to our fine LE members, I know the argument would be akin to; "we would never be able to do our job for fear that every case would result in some kind of bogus charge" Maybe so, but if you have done your job correctly you should have nothing to worry about, and you are, after all, innocent until proven guilty. ETA: I am not advocating that you be charged for doing your job, but unlike when a mechanic puts on the wrong part, and can go back and fix the problem, when LE does a poor job people pay, sometimes in blood. Once the law applies equally to everyone, many of the "syndromes" might well correct themselves.
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WITHOUT Freedom of Thought, there can be no such Thing as Wisdom; and no such Thing as public Liberty, without Freedom of Speech. Silence Dogood Does not morality imply the last clear chance? - WildAlaska - Last edited by OuTcAsT; May 22, 2009 at 11:31 PM. Reason: Expanding a thought |
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May 22, 2009, 11:40 PM | #14 |
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OuTcAsT,
Great post. Right on target. I agree 100%.
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May 23, 2009, 12:58 AM | #15 |
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It's threads like this that make me glad I gave up police work about five years ago.
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May 23, 2009, 01:14 AM | #16 |
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Wagonman,
Why did you leave police work? Your reference to " threads like this ". Care to elaborate?
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May 23, 2009, 07:42 AM | #17 |
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There was an incident a year or two ago in a small town in the Maryland suburbs of Washington in which the police invaded a house that was apparently the wrong house. It turned out to be the house of the mayor of this small town. Fortunately, a local constable and friend of the mayor turned up just in time and stood by the mayor to prevent anything else happening, there being a likelihood of it turning even worse. I wonder how these things get started?
There seems to be an unfortunate trend of militarization of law enforcement. They wear black uniforms and combat boots with black trousers, helmets, shields and the works. They tend to have what used to be called Prussian haircuts as if having hair were immoral. I think these little details cause a little confusion in the minds of some police but there may be other reasons. The police in my small town where I grew up wore white shirts. The police station was built with a garage door front (next to the fire station) and on hot summer days before air conditioning, the entire front of the station was wide open. I guess things change.
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May 23, 2009, 09:22 AM | #18 |
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I live in the same area as the above poster; while no humans were killed, the police did execute the family's labradors, in front of kids I believe. Pretty offensive.
And in northern VA, a SWAT team arrived to bust a local fellow, optometrist if I recall correctly, for gambling on football games in the local sports bar. One of the team bumped his elbow exiting his vehicle; his drawn .45 discharged, killing the gambler. No charges. Us vs Them has got to stop. We're becoming the disUnited States of Alienation. |
May 23, 2009, 10:15 AM | #19 | |
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May 23, 2009, 11:17 AM | #20 | |
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After sleeping on this, I have begun to wonder why there are no criminal charges brought against officers that commit such acts, the question was the impetus for my doing some research into my own states laws. After reading the TCA carefully, and from a layman's POV (I realize case law also plays a part) I cannot find any statutes that prohibit such charges from being brought. This is problematic for me.
Who has the responsibility and authority to bring such charges ? Would it not be the States Atty. / Local DA ? Is it really as simple as the fact that the DA is unwilling to bring such charges ? Perhaps someone more qualified than I can explain this. Quote:
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WITHOUT Freedom of Thought, there can be no such Thing as Wisdom; and no such Thing as public Liberty, without Freedom of Speech. Silence Dogood Does not morality imply the last clear chance? - WildAlaska - |
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May 23, 2009, 12:59 PM | #21 |
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Why no charges? I suspect it's politics as usual. The DA and the police are on the same team; further, no DA wants to be seen as soft on crime or hard on the police. Then too, there's the internal culture of the police dept. One local county which I will not name has had a racist and trigger-happy reputation for the forty years I've lived in the area. Despite the occasional investigation (FBI was involved, more than once if I recall correctly) nothing really changes. The Chief gets swapped out every so often, but it's difficult to impossible to weed out the folks who shouldn't be carrying anything more lethal than their bare hands. I imagine it must be very frustrating for the honorable and responsible LEOs, to be tarred with the same brush, so to speak.
On the plus side, the local Va dept mentioned in my earlier post is studying alternatives to having SWAT teams serving warrants on non-violent offenders. I don't think they're looking into why it was thought necessary in the first place. Of course, when you have a weapon available, the tendency is to use it. The availablility of funding from Homeland Security (am I the only one who finds that title a bit disturbing?) has contributed to the development of a lot of para-military equipment and capability in local police departments; possibly a lot more than is needed. |
May 23, 2009, 01:17 PM | #22 | |
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Truthfully I believe some type of psychological testing every 5 years should be mandatory, it would protect the public and the officer. |
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May 23, 2009, 01:30 PM | #23 | |
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The second guessing and breast beating about the excesses of Police work are just two of the reasons I and many of my fellow LEOs stopped proactive Police work. We are getting results also, Chicago had more murders than Baghdad last year. But, the bright side a lot less "rights" were violated and I haven't been sued federally in over 6 years.
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Last edited by Wagonman; May 23, 2009 at 01:37 PM. |
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May 23, 2009, 02:32 PM | #24 |
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Anyone notice the poor innocent motorist running down the cop who tried to spike the van at the first of the video?
Seems to be getting glossed over by the left wing fringe and other nutcases. Last edited by Kmar40; May 23, 2009 at 02:47 PM. |
May 23, 2009, 03:37 PM | #25 | |
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SOPs: 1) The LE agency circles the wagons and begins leading and (less commonly) intimidating witness to exonerate the officer. A classic case happened back in the 1980s. A middle aged middle class African-American couple stopped to get gas (Anaheim, CA?) and spotted a LEO beating a suspect. They called the police to report the crime. They were then arrested and prosecuted for "filing a false police report" against the officer. The judge threw out the case as a blatant attempt to intimidate the public into remaining silent on abuses. Riverside, CA a police fusillade into a woman sleeping in her car with her pistol on her lap led to multiple press releases and press conferences about what a horrible human being she was. Murrieta, CA an off duty shooting in a bar led to an immediate press statement on what evil mean and nasty people the shootees were. SOP step 1a) Intimidate and lead witnesses, step 1b) demonize and dehumanize the shooting/beating victim in the media, step 1c) release a report exonerating the officer. In the cases cited I make no judgement of guilt or innocence only on the method of dealing with the cases. But in one recent and extreme case it went so far that the parents of a child molestation victim received death threats from someone very familiar with non public aspects of the case. The molestation suspect was a long time LEO and the charges had been brought by another agency. I personally think most officers are good men and women but are victims of an us vs them system and also don't want to risk being the next Serpico. 2) Whenever possible DA's in this area accept the official report and quietly decline to file charges. 3) If backed into a political corner the DA's office will file charges but will simply throw the case and blame "brain damaged jurors". Methods vary. In a taped Long Beach CA beating the suspect was beaten unconscious, but that did not stop the officer who continued the beating with his nightstick while literally dancing a jig around the suspect. Fellow officer were so appalled that they failed to confiscate the video tape. However the DA refused to enter the video tape into evidence during the trial. A board of rights later reinstated the officer to duty. Orange County CA, the DA's office "accidentally" deleted the 20 minutes of a jail house security video showing deputies beating a suspect. Strangely enough they only deleted that 20 minutes from the video. But without a video they were "forced" to drop the case. The examples could go on forever but I do not submit these to attack LE. Only to answer the question. I think the vast majority of LEOs are as appalled as you or I. But I also think they suffer from the "but for the grace of god go I" syndrome that leads them to protect the old boy system. After all anybody, even a really outstanding officer can loose it once and it's nice to know you have a backstop to protect your butt even if it means that it protects the rare bad guy in blue.
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