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November 26, 2013, 03:18 AM | #26 |
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I'll also add that there should be a de-stigmatizing of getting MH treatment.
I think this prevents many from seeking help. |
November 26, 2013, 06:15 AM | #27 |
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As a veteran, I am seeing the backlash from the post-Sandy Hook (and post-sandbox) incident. The VA Healthcare System is making an effort to get as many veterans as possible (an outreach aimed primarily at those veterans who have recently served in Iraq and/or Afghanistan) to sign up for PTSD treatment. Given the number of veteran/returnee suicides, spousal abuse/assault/murder incidents, and other problems that can probably be attributed to PTSD, this would appear to be a laudable program.
The dark side is that, at the same time the VA is actively trying to diagnose as many veterans as possible with PTSD, other elements of the government (the Congress) are trying to enact laws that will automatically classify anyone diagnosed with PTSD as being permanently ineligible to possess firearms -- for life. Understandably, the prospect of being prohibited FOR LIFE from ever touching a firearm is a powerful disincentive for veterans to sign up for the help that they [some of them] need. It's a classic Catch-22. Sure, it's easy to opine that head cases shouldn't be allowed to have [access to] guns. The problem is that there isn't any bright line, and determining which cases are sufficiently dangerous to justify terminating their constitutional right to self-defense is a sticky issue. |
November 26, 2013, 06:30 AM | #28 | |
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Every mental health diagnosis is a spectrum in terms of severity, PTSD included. Some folks with PTSD are completely unable to function because of the hypervigilance, flash backs, and night terrors. Other have much more mild symptoms that require some effort to negotiate, but can be managed. Assuming that both ends of the spectrum are equally dangerous is contrary to everything we know about mental illness. |
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November 26, 2013, 08:29 AM | #29 | |||
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That is in my records for good. I'm trying to get back into the military (got out to get my degree) and guess what, because I couldn't sleep 4 years ago huge red flags are flying up. My point is that we are looking at this in hindsight. In order to prevent every crime committed by the mentally ill we have to have incarcerate (for lack of a better term) every person who shows the slightest sign of abnormality and who gets to decide what's normal? Personally I could make the arguement that anyone who joins a combat arms branch of the military, becomes a police officer or fireman are at the very least slightly abnormal.
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November 26, 2013, 09:13 AM | #30 | |
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Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time. No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it. |
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November 26, 2013, 09:39 AM | #31 |
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The VA does some good stuff and has good doctors working for them, but they are on a kick about PTSD.
Got a few chunks of Humvee in my knee in the sandbox. About a year after I had been back, my knee really started hurting during a fraternity softball game. Went to the VA, and spent more time answering questionaires about how much I sleep(college frat boy, not much) and how I drank (college frat boy, a lot) than getting my knee checked on. It was rather aggravating. Until the stigma of mental health issues is removed, which will require a tremendous cultural shift in this country, we aren't going to see any meaningful change. In regards to the police report, the banality of evil with that bastard is just sickening. And sort of troubling, I have a drawer full of magazines and random boxes of half shot shotgun shells sitting out and about. And an old Nintendo thats get a lot of use, too.
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November 26, 2013, 09:54 AM | #32 |
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PTSD is something which effects people differently. Ive seen dead people and it was depressing. I had bad dreams for a few days, but then it went away and I dont feel different. While others who witness violent episodes or gory scenes somehow it sticks with them for life. PTSD can be permanent but it can also be temporary.
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November 26, 2013, 10:13 AM | #33 |
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1. Before people pontificate on Asperger's - be aware that that diagnosis has been removed from the DSM-V. There is now just the Autism Spectrum.
2. I am also uncomfortable with folks discussing the psychological/psychiatric problems of a relative or friend without their explicit permission. Please do not do such in the future. One doesn't know who might pick up such from the Internet.
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November 26, 2013, 12:46 PM | #34 | |
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November 26, 2013, 12:56 PM | #35 |
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I just dont see the point here guys, you could study the mentally ill and laws and statistics but what good is that gonna do when a sane normal kid shoots up his school. If you think the only people capable of mass shootings are the mentally ill you got a screw loose. Why not concentrate on keeping your kids safe?
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November 26, 2013, 01:16 PM | #36 | |
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Sandy Hook shooting report released
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November 26, 2013, 01:16 PM | #37 |
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I do know that most people do not actually know PTSD, Aspergers and many other such conditions/illnesses. These are complex medical situations which are best left for doctors and specialized persons to pontificate. That said, as a non-medical professional, I do not believe either PTSD or Aspergers to be illnesses associated with violence.
If Lanza had a cavity in his tooth then it would be ridiculous to believe that that caused the violent situation. I believe its just as ridiculous to believe that Aspergers had anything to do with this violent event. He probably had other conditions which caused the tragic event. What we can deduct is that Lanza's mother was trying to protect others from her son. She knew that Lanza was violent. She made a mistake and tried to handle the situation in her own way by herself. She should have discussed the matter with the police and medical professionals. She certainly should not have had firearms around her son even in locked cabinets. Those should have been stored off-site away from her son. She didnt handle this situation properly. If you know someone has violent tendencies then you should do the right thing and convey your beliefs to the authorities. This is a matter of someone being violently mentally ill and a loved one not properly alerting the right people about the situation. If I had a violently ill son then the right thing to do would to discuss the situation with the police and medical professionals in great detail. Handling the situation on your own in your home is not the right thing to do. Can a person in their right mind go into a crowded place and start shooting others? In my mind, I do not believe so. Readying firearms, planning an attack, carrying out the attack, etc. is a deliberate act which requires a lot of work and action. I do not believe someone in their right mind is capable of coming to a logical conclusion that this is the right thing to do. My belief is that something must be wrong with this individual. |
November 26, 2013, 01:28 PM | #38 |
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The only thing that can stop things like this is the family. Care enough, be concerned enough, get help if you can't do it alone, but if a loved one is displaying these behaviors, they need evaluated, monitored and given the HELP they NEED. Also, and I think this is obvious to pretty much EVERYONE here, but PLEASE secure your firearms! Don't cry to me about your right to do whatever you want inside your own home, this situation BEGGED for Mom to take control of her family's safety and that of her son, and ultimately that of everyone around them by LOCKING UP the guns. Control access, or the government will control you. Nuff said.
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November 26, 2013, 01:33 PM | #39 | |
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November 26, 2013, 02:40 PM | #40 |
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Sane, normal people don't start businesses, do solo ocean crossings, run for political office or heli-ski. It is very easy to say someone is insane because they did something insane, but up until the moment they decided to do it they are just like the rest of us, so that isn't a statement with any predictive value.
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November 26, 2013, 02:46 PM | #41 |
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Sane - once again - sanity is a loose term.
In modern times - insanity is a legal term and not a psychological/psychiatric term. It has to do with the application of criminal penalties. It does not that you have a mental illness in general. There are different standards - commonly you are sane if you know right from wrong and are aware of the consequences of your actions. That does not mean that you can't have a host of mental illness issues. Other standards may add that the action is not the consequence of mental illness to be considered sane and thus punishable by the criminal justice system. That standard is the most controversial and not the majority viewpoint. So, saying Lanza is sane or not is to use a colloquial usage and not really worth much on a technical level.
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November 26, 2013, 02:57 PM | #42 |
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I believe it would be important to dig deeper into the lost relationship with his father. If we are going to learn anything from this is not going to be how to spot a potential shooter, at least I hope not. But there are some things to learn I believe.
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November 26, 2013, 03:39 PM | #43 |
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Staff decision to close the thread.
Thanks for the folks who contributed meaningful info and insights. But it's run its course. Glenn
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November 26, 2013, 10:00 PM | #44 |
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It bears mentioning that this is one of two expected reports. The second one is due from the state police, and it will likely be more detailed. We can start a new thread when that one becomes available.
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