November 21, 2012, 06:20 PM | #51 | |
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November 22, 2012, 08:11 AM | #52 |
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Ooops! You are correct, Jimbo. My mistake.
I forgot about SAO.... because I don't have one and don't really care for them (they violate my "uncocked carry" rule). |
November 22, 2012, 09:11 AM | #53 |
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I have a Ruger P89 that was my only pistol for years. I never carried it and it only served as a range, truck, HD gun. I put a set of Houge grips on it and though I never liked the DA pull I learned to use it and be accurate with it.
I was content with that until I shot my first IDPA match. That is when the trigger bothered me so I got a Glock 17 before (I had the month before got a G26 for carry so it seemed the natural choice) the next match. The P89 has been in the safe ever since, but I couldn't sell it due to various reasons (they are a great value). I have started to use it again because I have found it seems to be the safest to teach new shooters with. The first DA pull is so hard you have to be really deliberate to make it fire. The decocker is also a fantastic feature that allows me to drop the hammer and engage the safety in one move which I have found very handy when going through the nuances of shooting with my 10 year old. I just bought a G19 yesterday and I need to sell a couple to pay for it. Guess what? I am keeping the Ruger. That DA/SA has it's place. |
November 24, 2012, 10:00 PM | #54 | |
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Keeping one's finger off the trigger till the target is in one's sights prevents accidental discharges. And additional 5 pounds of trigger pull does not. |
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November 24, 2012, 10:05 PM | #55 | |
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November 24, 2012, 10:08 PM | #56 | |
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Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness |
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November 25, 2012, 06:21 AM | #57 | |
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November 25, 2012, 07:13 AM | #58 |
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The Glock fanboys are back! do you think the inventor of the internet envisioned his creation would be used to spew opinion as fact? The internet has created a place for mall ninjas to come together. look at some of the morons on youtube if you don't believe me.
Here's the thing. a DA/SA firearm is slightly less accurate because of the longer trigger pull on the first shot. You think the person you just shot is going to care about your grouping? And basing your marksmanship in a self defense shooting on your scores at the range is a waste of time anyway. You're NOT gonna be double tapping to the heart if you are being robbed. Shooting at steel plates? How big are they? 8 inches? a hit is a hit, even if there is an 8 inch spread. Now let's talk about the BENEFITS of a DA/SA gun. FAR LESS chance of an negligent discharge. I know I'm about to get the "My safety is between my ears" and "Keep your finger off the trigger and the gun won't fire" comments, but you can save yourself the trouble of typing because it's all BS. People DO make mistakes, and they are far more likely to happen with a 5 pound trigger on a hammerless, no manual safety firearm. The NYPD is one of the few departments that authorized three different weapons. A Glock 19, SIG 226 (DAO) and S&W 5946 (DAO). During training, the range officer would issue the command "thumb on the hammer and holster". Can't do that with a Glock. At the time of my retirement, there was NOT ONE report of a ND or AD with the SIG or Smith. ALL of them were Glocks. |
November 25, 2012, 08:25 AM | #59 |
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I think for self defence there is a lot of rubbish talked about trigger pulls SA/DA etc. I f someone is shooting at you will not notice what type of trigger its or if it has a 2lb pull or 20 lb pull. Target shooting on a range you will notice a difference.
PS If a good trigger pull was that important no one would buy a glock. |
November 25, 2012, 08:26 AM | #60 |
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I remember reading an article in G&A written a couple of decades ago about the proper use of a DA/SA (or Traditional Double-Action/TDA) autos. The author stated that the DA shot is for situations when you have to draw & fire quickly at a close-range target. If you have more time to draw, you should draw, cock the hammer, and keep your finger off the trigger until you need to make a precise shot. After the threat is over, decock & holster. That approach made a lot of sense to me when I owned a SIG 220 & a Ruger P95.....but I don't own a TDA auto now (XD9sc & revolvers).
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November 25, 2012, 09:40 AM | #61 |
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SA for me. I have two sa/da revolvers that are never fired da. I won't have a da semi. I did buy a Glock once but never again.
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November 25, 2012, 10:19 AM | #62 |
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Not hard to tell how effective DA/SA is. Just look at all the top pistol competitors and special forces units who choose it!
(Can you say ZERO?) |
November 25, 2012, 10:22 AM | #63 | |
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I have rather long and strong thumbs and index fingers, so I've never had a problem in cocking the hammer of any auto-loader so far. Others with smaller hands may have a problem. Theoretically a DAO auto-pistol sounds fine to me, I just haven't seen one I like so far or I'd buy one. |
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November 25, 2012, 10:28 AM | #64 | |
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November 25, 2012, 10:50 AM | #65 |
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It is all about trigger control no matter what system you are shooting. Trigger control is what allows you to shoot any pistol properly. If you spend enough time shooting and dry firing a pistol you can master any and all trigger systems. Does that mean you will "like" all systems equally? NO but it does not mean you cannot shoot all systems with a high degree of competency.
I do not understand why people feel the need to trash the DA/SA trigger or striker fired DAO trigger for that matter. I think that both can serve any shooter well with the right training. If you do not want to train on multiple platforms I can understand that. Resources and time are limited but I believe that if you put in time you can master any trigger system. I prefer SA hammer fired guns like the BHP & 1911. I cut my teeth shooting DA/SA Sigs. I have learned to shoot Glocks and Kahrs. I still give the SA hammer fired guns the edge in my hand and they are the ones which consistently put smiles on my face while shooting. This does not mean I do not shoot the other well enough to know that if called upon I can defend my life with any gun in the safe including a few S&W DAO revolvers. It is all about familiarity with the individual guns and their individual triggers. No 2 triggers are 100% identical. Each BHP I own has a different trigger pull than the others. The same with my Sigs and the same with my Glocks. No guns are 100% consistent gun to gun. If you are really interested in mastering a DA/SA trigger I suggest reading this article by Bruce Gray. It a nice read about how to master a DA/SA trigger by dry firing. It emphasizes trigger control and learning to prep the trigger. It is all about visualization releasing and pressing the trigger. It is all about knowing the reset point and learning how to run the trigger at speed without jerking it. The best part is it is FREE!!!!! it takes time but no resources, assuming you already have a DA/SA gun. http://grayguns.com/dry-fire-secrets-of-the-pros/
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November 25, 2012, 10:58 AM | #66 | ||
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http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...p226-navy.aspx
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-The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle Last edited by WVsig; November 25, 2012 at 12:12 PM. |
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November 25, 2012, 11:30 AM | #67 | |
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November 25, 2012, 11:42 AM | #68 | |
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November 25, 2012, 12:04 PM | #69 | |
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I personally would never carry a DA/SA gun cocked in a holster would you? The firing pin safety is to prevent the gun from firing if it is dropped when in the cocked position. It is not IMHO a safety device designed to allow the gun to carried in a SA mode. YMMV
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-The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle Last edited by WVsig; November 25, 2012 at 12:19 PM. |
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November 25, 2012, 12:28 PM | #70 | |
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Special Forces uses the Beretta M9, the SIG 226, and the special forces in other countries still shoot a TDA gun. Or do you think a Nany SEAL with a SIG is at a disadvantage over Joe Mall Ninja with a Glock or an M&P? |
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November 25, 2012, 12:34 PM | #71 | |
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the M11(sig sauer P226) pistol is DA/SA the M9(Beretta 92FS) is DA/SA special forces, recon, mobile expeditionary and mobile comms all use these and use them often.
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November 25, 2012, 03:25 PM | #72 | |
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Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness |
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November 25, 2012, 06:30 PM | #73 |
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Love my SIG, Love my M&P, Love my LCP... There's room for everything on my hip.
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November 25, 2012, 08:45 PM | #74 |
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WVsig: I never said anything about carrying it in the holster cocked....the article stated that you draw your gun first then cock the hammer. As you stated, the firing pin safety keeps it from firing if dropped....it should work just fine to prevent the gun from firing when the gun is gripped in your hand with your finger off the trigger.
Question for all: the US military teaches that the M9 pistol is to be carried chamber-empty. Do they also teach soldiers, when they chamber a round in combat, to decock before firing so the first round is DA?..... .....I didn't think so....
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November 25, 2012, 09:07 PM | #75 |
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That's news to me. The 1911 was to be carried hammer down on an empty chamber. The M9 was not so I have been told. Depends where you are stationed, I guess. After 9/11, National Guardsmen stationed in NYC had 30 round magazines in their M-16's, but they only had 5 rounds and the round was not chambered. I was given a Mini 14 to stand post at 1 Police Plaza, and we had 20 round mags, no chambered round.
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