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Old November 26, 2006, 06:52 AM   #1
Huffy
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Squibs, Powder drop problems, checker die

I have read many posts that talk about squib loads and how reloaders check every 5th or 10 load for accuracy. Problem is that it may be the load they do not check that will be the next squib load.

I have had 2 squibs, one in a 45APC (Clays) and the other in a 357 shooting 38 special (Bullseye). The first squib I did not notice the reduced report and shot the next round damaging the barrel (Kimber $225.00 repair). The 2nd squib I noticed the light report but the bullet made it out the barrel. After the first squib, I started to visually inspect each cartridge after I droped the powder. (It is apparent that I can't tell the difference accurately enough by eyeball to determine if it is a light load).

I have been told my problem is the Lee equipment I use, but do not believe it. They feel if I switch to a Dillon press (their powder drop is more consistent over my Lees) my problem will be solved. If I switch to Dillon 550 I will not need a powder check die. If I do decide to switch, I believe it would be worth the extra $ to go to a 650 and use the powder checker die.

This brings me to my question; will the use of Dillon’s equipment solve the problem of inconsistent powder drop. Or is it just a fact in the reloading world that inconsistent powder drops happen in every manufactures equipment? Would upgrading to 5 hole press and the use of a "powder checked die" identify the problem of a incorrectly charged case? Is anyone using one of these dies and what is your opinion of it?

Thanks, Mike
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Old November 26, 2006, 11:33 AM   #2
rwilson452
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Power drop

Every powder out there has the ability to bridge and give you a light or squip load. especially with small charges of large granual or stick powders. All powder drops are done by voluume not weight. Will using a powder check absolutely prevent light/squib loads? I don't think so. It should greatly reduce the possibility. there are no absolutes outside of weighing each charge. Two other things seperately and together will help. Use a powder that requires a larger charge and using ball powders. Ball powders meter better. the larger the charge the less chance there is of getting a bad charge. using a larger charge, one that fills over half the case also will prevent a double charge as a double charge will overflow the case and be very evident.
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Old November 26, 2006, 12:29 PM   #3
snuffy
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Mike, you didn't say waht type of lee powder measure you were using. Or in which lee loader. I used a lee turret press, along with a lee disc measure for over a year, without a single squib. That while loading 3-4 thousand rounds of 40 S&W, 9mm, 357 mag, and 45 acp. I never tried clays, but I know it's a very fluffy flake powder that could "bridge" easily. Same goes for the bullseye.

I since have up-graded to the dillon 650, and I got the powder check system. It consists of a brass shaft that has a "foot" on the bottom. The foot passes trhough the mouth of the case to rest on top of the powder charge. There's an indent or small area on the top of the shaft that coincides with the buzzer activator button. If that button falls into that indent in the shaft, it doesn't buzz/alarm. If there's less or more powder than there should be, the buzzer button lands on the full shaft diameter, causing the alarm to sound. You can then check that case to see if it is light or heavy, and what caused it to happen. Some times it alarms falsley, because the foot might compact the powder a little more, a visual inspection, or weighing the powder can be done.

So far in a couple years of using the dillon, I haven't had any low/high powder charges. The handgun stuff I load, I use the dillon powder measures. The rifle,(.223-.308), I use a Hornady measure with a Hornady case-activated powder die.
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Old November 26, 2006, 12:41 PM   #4
Robert M Boren Sr
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I use a Dillon 550 and I use a little pin light that I set on the dies and point down on the base. The light really lights up the inside of the case in the bullet seating position and therefore I can see and make sure there is powder in the case. It really doesn't take long to get used to knowing where the powder level should be in the case and any deviations is obvious. Never have had a squib yet in 30 + years, knock on wood, but I take just a little extra caution to see inside the case before I set the bulltet onto it.
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Old November 26, 2006, 03:06 PM   #5
swmike
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I've been using a Lee Progressive for over 20 years now and have had -0- problems with powder drop consistency. I have used 231, 296, 2400, Bullseye, Unique, PB, Power Pistol, AA-7, and others without any "bridging" problems in the AutoDisc measure. When I am loading, I prefer a powder that will give me a somewhat full case with my selected load. I then visually check the powder level as I set the bullet in place. If the powder drop is significantly low it is very noticable. Same for a "double charge". The only time I have had a low charge is if I was not paying attention to the powder reservoir and it went dry. My visual check has caught every one.

As to a Dillon Press, you can buy a powder check indicator that will alarm when either a high or low powder drop is detected. I prefer to use my eyeball rather than rely on a mechanical device.
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Old November 26, 2006, 03:30 PM   #6
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I had to repair the powder checker on a friend's Dillon 1050. It is a clever device, but not too precise. If I owned one I would be inclined to devise my own.

I've used a Dillon Square Deal for .45 ACP for many years without ever having a squib, though I did manage to over-charge a case on it once and cause some damage. Not the least of that was small brass fragments blown back into my face through the gaps in the 1911 slide and frame ways and rails that required medical attention. Thank God and Benjamin Franklin for glasses, or I would be typing this in Braille. The fault in this was mine because I had pulled the measure apart and failed to notice a Delryn spacer fall out, which let the measure tip back and forth a lot during loading. I was in a hurry and dismissed this odd behavior. I knew better and hurried anyway. A long ago lesson learned.

Anyway, that incident convinced me to mount a small mirror that reflects a look down into the cases back at me. I currently have a white LED mounted to illuminate the inside of the case. The trick is keeping all this clear of the seating/crimping operation and the path your fingers need to take in placing a bullet in a case mouth. For me this has the light shining in from the back of the machine and the mirror high and left. It is worth the bother of setting up just for peace of mind.

Nick
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Old November 26, 2006, 06:36 PM   #7
gandog56
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I've used a Lee Auto Disk for 20 years, and the only problems I have ever had is with Unique Powder. But all my other powders are ball powders, so that may be it. Unique I believe is a flake powder. And I've been pretty good luck using the old mark I eyeball on the loading blocks.
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Old November 26, 2006, 07:59 PM   #8
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Just today, at our local range, I overheard a fellow talking to one of the range officers about his Dillon 550 not being able to meter very consistently with one particular flake powder.

I know the problem. I have experienced two squib loads in the past (both noticed before firing the second shot), and I am very nervous about trusting any powder dispenser with any flake powder.

Dillon offers a powder check station for good reason. They wouldn't if they had full confidence in their measure.

I even went as far as to cut away part of an alternate brand name powder dispenser so I could see light loads before they fell into the case.

In one instance, 7 out of 50 loads were light.

Yes, I could switch to ball powders, but even then I would be leary.

So, I still build them, by hand, one at a time, and I know they are right.
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Old November 26, 2006, 08:12 PM   #9
Huffy
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Thanks Snuffy and everyone else. I also use a lee turret press, along with a lee disc measure. I have loaded around 2000 rounds of 45 and 3000 of 38 special. I like my press, just not real happy with the powder drop situation. I even went as far as to polish the inside of the drop tube, not sure if it helped but believe it couldn’t hut. I liked advise about using ball powders and a fuller case. I guess my next logical step would be to find new powder loads for my 45 and 38 spec, any suggestions for a good powder /target load?

Unclenick I have a desk halogen light that lets me see inside the 45 cases but not real well in the 38s. I have been removing those cases, inspecting and then putting them back. I guess I need to find a better light. Where did you purchase yours?

Thanks all, Mike
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Old November 26, 2006, 09:04 PM   #10
C17A
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Squib Loads

I've had squib loads (also called "primer loads") using the RCBS Ammomaster, so it's not just Lee that has the problem. With the Ammomaster all the tiny little setscrews and such shake loose (in less than 100 rounds!), and then the rod that actuates the powder measure works out of its linkage and before you know it, you're loading shells with no powder. That's a major design defect of the Ammomaster--notice that RCBS has discontinued that model. Another defect is the primer load & seat operation did not work. I had shells rotate through with no primer--but with powder, this time--and had powder leak through the flash hole and get all into the carriage and shell plate mechanism. I became an expert at taking everything apart for cleaning and then reassembling everything back together, cursing RCBS the whole time. Since the mechanism had to be lightly oiled to work right, the powder would stick to the oil and cause a real mess.

I use a separate means to load powder now. I stop the carriage at the top of its stroke and use a funnel and measure to drop in the powder, before lowering (which then indexes the shell plate to the next station).

I also seat primers separately using a Lee Autoprime, and abandoned the Ammomaster primer tube and seat mechanism entirely. Seating primers separately gives me an added step, but then I can feel the primers seat and inspect them for correct seating depth. One thing about the primer tube is that 100 primers goes by awfully fast, and then the loading rhythm is broken to load up the primer tube again. I don't like to stop the press in the middle of things, too much chance of a mistake.

Sad how RCBS didn't get it right with what would have been a flagship product to compete with Dillon.

Thank You

GlennH
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