Help a newbie reloader?

punkin · January 29, 2011, 04:46 PM

I've reloaded a lot; but it was always under the direction of my dad or grandpa...I loaded to their specs, we shot, we had fun. Now I'm on my own, and while I'm having fun, I want to make smart decisions.

Here's the deal: .300 Win Mag absolutely dialed in with factory (cheap) Remington Corelokt 150gr PSP.

I loaded 5 110gr PSP, 5 165gr Hornady GMAX, and 5 180gr Hornady PSP. I loaded all to minimum specs according to the Hogdon website. I'm using (no joke) 60 or 70 year old ORIGINAL H4831 that my dad bought back in the 70's. The powder has been stored well, and seems to burn fine, albeit a little dirty.

So, my dialed in rifle shot 15 rounds today...the 110gr were pretty much dead on, 1.5" group @ 200yds (and my scope is crappy)...the 165's were 4" low and the 180's 6" low @ 200 yds.

Should I creep up the powder to increase velocity, and theoretically reduce drop? Of course I could dial the scope differently, but if I'm dead on with factory rounds, shouldn't my handloads be as well?

I appreciate advice from those who've done this a lot longer than me!

GP100man · January 29, 2011, 06:41 PM

!.5" @ 200 , I`d say ya lucked out !!!

Ideal Tool · January 29, 2011, 06:55 PM

Hello, punkin. I have to agree with GP100man on that 200yd. group.
But I hafta ask...What in the world are you using 110gr. on in a .300 Win Mag?

Doodlebugger45 · January 29, 2011, 07:18 PM

If the group sizes are OK for you, then all you have to do is adjust the scope to zero each different load. That goes with the territory. Different weight bullets will have different velocities and different impact points. Once in awhile you can find some loads that will have the same impact point with different bullets and such. But it's not that big a deal to just change the scope settings to adjust to whatever zero point you have in mind. The main thing is to get an accurate and consistent grouping.

punkin · January 29, 2011, 11:04 PM

Hey guys, thanks for the replies...don't get hung up on the 110gr thing...I have always heard that light bullets don't perform well in the barrels of belted mags...I guess I proved that wrong. In all honesty, my dad drove through Grand Island, NE a few weeks ago, and I asked him to stop @ Hornady and see what blems they had on sale cheap. Turns out they had 110 psp, 165 GMAX, and 180 PSP. So thats what I now have to load. (I thought the 110s might be fun on Coyotes, and based on bench tests, they will be!)

All of that aside...my real question is: If I was zeroed on the bench with the Remington 150gr CoreLokts... should I try and UP the load on the 165s and 180s, or should I adjust the scope? Sure, it would be easy to adjust the scope, but if I'm giving up velocity and performance by loading at "printed minimums", then should I try to load them hotter first?

Thanks for your help!

punkin · January 29, 2011, 11:25 PM

FWIW, I see that Doodle is from WY...I'm in Northern Colorado...my ultimate goal is a load that is consistently reliable at 200-400yds. I'm in year 9 of trying for Bull Moose tag...at SOME point, statistics say I'll draw. When I do, I want to be capable of a potentially long shot at a once-in-a-lifetime bull!

Up until now, I've never used other than a .257 Roberts (3 bucks and one doe) and a .30-06 (one buck @ 200yds)... I really want to dial in a load that I can understand, and before I touch the scope (since I dialed it with factory loads) I really want to know if upping the powder on the handloads will be beneficial.

I suppose if I don't get replies, I'll just try it, but I'd love to have the advice of a "been there, done that," type...

700cdl · January 30, 2011, 12:01 AM

Are you absolute on using H4831? If not I know you can push a 165 gr @ at or close to 3300 fps. with 76.0 grains of IMR4831, which is very flat shooting. But to be perfectly honest, I haven't looked at the data for H4831. If you are loading at the lower end of the spectrum with H4831, I would deffinitely work your load up and see what you get. I'm not for certain on H4831, but I think it will produce simular to IMR 4831 regarding obtainable velocities. But so far as getting those to group the same as 110s, it's not likely. Those 110s are probably flying 300 or 400 fps faster than a 165 will. Just make a mental note regarding how many clicks need to be made up or down on the scope turret to get the same impact point at what ever distance needed. Thats how I did it before my Leupold RXIV range finder came into my life.

punkin · January 30, 2011, 12:24 AM

700! That's the kind of advice I'm looking for! I'm not set on the H4831, it's just welfare powder, and I've got 3 or 4 pounds of it at my disposal...I figure, even if I shoot a lot for fun, that's a LOT of shooting! I may have gotten lucky with the 110s, but that doesn't matter...I'm looking at the 165s and 180s as hunting loads... FWIW, I think I was loading the 180s @ 69 and the 165s @ 72.0, per the hogdon website. I'm thinking if I fatten those loads up a bit I'll get back up toward my zero...but I don't want to unnecessarily load them hotter if it won't get me results...I'm looking for advice from people who know more than me!

M.O.A. · January 30, 2011, 01:14 AM

it is likely to go up close but it might stay right at the same spot. u just have to try itand see. and did u say ur useing 60 year old powder i would say if u r going to use that powder to buy a new lb. of it and try it,see if urs has lost any pop because powder does go bad even if stored rite

Lost Sheep · January 30, 2011, 01:17 AM

Matching factory ammo velocity (and trajectory) is one thing. Getting minimum group size is another.

Which would you rather?

Barrels "like" particular velocities because of the way they "whip" or vibrate (also known as barrel harmonics). 1.5" at 200 yards? If you raise the velocity, you might open up the group size to an unacceptable level or you might tighten the group size. The only way to be sure is to try it.

Who knows, you might be golden and manage to do both at the same time.

Good luck,

Lost Sheep

Bailey Boat · January 30, 2011, 07:28 AM

THAT is the benefit of reloading, the experimenting phase. As long as you're between the minimum and maximum as published and know how to watch for signs of "bad mojo" you can explore and experiment to your heart's content.

punkin · January 30, 2011, 09:40 PM

Thanks for all the input guys! For the record, and to eliminate BS factor...the 110gr loads did in fact group at about 1.5"...my 165s and 180s were more like 5" triangles (both sets)....and as stated previously, way low.

My goal ISN'T to emulate factory loads, but the factory loads worked, so I was questioning why the handloads didn't perform similarly; I'll post some results after I try stepping the loads up.

Unfortunately, we're looking at sub-zero temps here tomorrow, so I'll have plenty of time to build a fire and load in my workshop, but not likely to do any shooting for a few days!

Thanks again,
--Scott

punkin · January 31, 2011, 10:04 PM

As promised, the high today was about 14, achieved by 8am; The high tomorrow is (no joke) -2. Supposed to get down to -17 tonight. If I lived in Fairbanks, that might be fine...I don't. I live an hour north of Denver.

Anyway, built a fire in the barn and was able to knock out a handful of loads. The original charge on the 180gr loads was 69gr...I loaded up 5x 71gr, 5x72gr, 5x73gr (max).

Maybe next weekend we'll see what they do if it warms up!

January 29, 2011, 04:46 PM	#1
punkin Junior Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Posts: 6	Help a newbie reloader? I've reloaded a lot; but it was always under the direction of my dad or grandpa...I loaded to their specs, we shot, we had fun. Now I'm on my own, and while I'm having fun, I want to make smart decisions. Here's the deal: .300 Win Mag absolutely dialed in with factory (cheap) Remington Corelokt 150gr PSP. I loaded 5 110gr PSP, 5 165gr Hornady GMAX, and 5 180gr Hornady PSP. I loaded all to minimum specs according to the Hogdon website. I'm using (no joke) 60 or 70 year old ORIGINAL H4831 that my dad bought back in the 70's. The powder has been stored well, and seems to burn fine, albeit a little dirty. So, my dialed in rifle shot 15 rounds today...the 110gr were pretty much dead on, 1.5" group @ 200yds (and my scope is crappy)...the 165's were 4" low and the 180's 6" low @ 200 yds. Should I creep up the powder to increase velocity, and theoretically reduce drop? Of course I could dial the scope differently, but if I'm dead on with factory rounds, shouldn't my handloads be as well? I appreciate advice from those who've done this a lot longer than me!

January 29, 2011, 06:41 PM	#2
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	!.5" @ 200 , I`d say ya lucked out !!! __________________ GP100man

January 30, 2011, 01:17 AM	#10
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	Trajectory or group size? Matching factory ammo velocity (and trajectory) is one thing. Getting minimum group size is another. Which would you rather? Barrels "like" particular velocities because of the way they "whip" or vibrate (also known as barrel harmonics). 1.5" at 200 yards? If you raise the velocity, you might open up the group size to an unacceptable level or you might tighten the group size. The only way to be sure is to try it. Who knows, you might be golden and manage to do both at the same time. Good luck, Lost Sheep

January 29, 2011, 06:55 PM	#3
Ideal Tool Junior member Join Date: October 6, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,080	Hello, punkin. I have to agree with GP100man on that 200yd. group. But I hafta ask...What in the world are you using 110gr. on in a .300 Win Mag?

January 29, 2011, 07:18 PM	#4
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	If the group sizes are OK for you, then all you have to do is adjust the scope to zero each different load. That goes with the territory. Different weight bullets will have different velocities and different impact points. Once in awhile you can find some loads that will have the same impact point with different bullets and such. But it's not that big a deal to just change the scope settings to adjust to whatever zero point you have in mind. The main thing is to get an accurate and consistent grouping.

January 29, 2011, 11:04 PM	#5
punkin Junior Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Posts: 6	Hey guys, thanks for the replies...don't get hung up on the 110gr thing...I have always heard that light bullets don't perform well in the barrels of belted mags...I guess I proved that wrong. In all honesty, my dad drove through Grand Island, NE a few weeks ago, and I asked him to stop @ Hornady and see what blems they had on sale cheap. Turns out they had 110 psp, 165 GMAX, and 180 PSP. So thats what I now have to load. (I thought the 110s might be fun on Coyotes, and based on bench tests, they will be!) All of that aside...my real question is: If I was zeroed on the bench with the Remington 150gr CoreLokts... should I try and UP the load on the 165s and 180s, or should I adjust the scope? Sure, it would be easy to adjust the scope, but if I'm giving up velocity and performance by loading at "printed minimums", then should I try to load them hotter first? Thanks for your help!

January 29, 2011, 11:25 PM	#6
punkin Junior Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Posts: 6	FWIW, I see that Doodle is from WY...I'm in Northern Colorado...my ultimate goal is a load that is consistently reliable at 200-400yds. I'm in year 9 of trying for Bull Moose tag...at SOME point, statistics say I'll draw. When I do, I want to be capable of a potentially long shot at a once-in-a-lifetime bull! Up until now, I've never used other than a .257 Roberts (3 bucks and one doe) and a .30-06 (one buck @ 200yds)... I really want to dial in a load that I can understand, and before I touch the scope (since I dialed it with factory loads) I really want to know if upping the powder on the handloads will be beneficial. I suppose if I don't get replies, I'll just try it, but I'd love to have the advice of a "been there, done that," type...

January 30, 2011, 12:01 AM	#7
700cdl Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2010 Posts: 216	Are you absolute on using H4831? If not I know you can push a 165 gr @ at or close to 3300 fps. with 76.0 grains of IMR4831, which is very flat shooting. But to be perfectly honest, I haven't looked at the data for H4831. If you are loading at the lower end of the spectrum with H4831, I would deffinitely work your load up and see what you get. I'm not for certain on H4831, but I think it will produce simular to IMR 4831 regarding obtainable velocities. But so far as getting those to group the same as 110s, it's not likely. Those 110s are probably flying 300 or 400 fps faster than a 165 will. Just make a mental note regarding how many clicks need to be made up or down on the scope turret to get the same impact point at what ever distance needed. Thats how I did it before my Leupold RXIV range finder came into my life.

January 30, 2011, 12:24 AM	#8
punkin Junior Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Posts: 6	700! That's the kind of advice I'm looking for! I'm not set on the H4831, it's just welfare powder, and I've got 3 or 4 pounds of it at my disposal...I figure, even if I shoot a lot for fun, that's a LOT of shooting! I may have gotten lucky with the 110s, but that doesn't matter...I'm looking at the 165s and 180s as hunting loads... FWIW, I think I was loading the 180s @ 69 and the 165s @ 72.0, per the hogdon website. I'm thinking if I fatten those loads up a bit I'll get back up toward my zero...but I don't want to unnecessarily load them hotter if it won't get me results...I'm looking for advice from people who know more than me!

January 30, 2011, 01:14 AM	#9
M.O.A. Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Location: south indiana Posts: 555	it is likely to go up close but it might stay right at the same spot. u just have to try itand see. and did u say ur useing 60 year old powder i would say if u r going to use that powder to buy a new lb. of it and try it,see if urs has lost any pop because powder does go bad even if stored rite

January 30, 2011, 07:28 AM	#11
Bailey Boat Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: NC Posts: 365	THAT is the benefit of reloading, the experimenting phase. As long as you're between the minimum and maximum as published and know how to watch for signs of "bad mojo" you can explore and experiment to your heart's content.

January 30, 2011, 09:40 PM	#12
punkin Junior Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Posts: 6	Thanks for all the input guys! For the record, and to eliminate BS factor...the 110gr loads did in fact group at about 1.5"...my 165s and 180s were more like 5" triangles (both sets)....and as stated previously, way low. My goal ISN'T to emulate factory loads, but the factory loads worked, so I was questioning why the handloads didn't perform similarly; I'll post some results after I try stepping the loads up. Unfortunately, we're looking at sub-zero temps here tomorrow, so I'll have plenty of time to build a fire and load in my workshop, but not likely to do any shooting for a few days! Thanks again, --Scott

January 31, 2011, 10:04 PM	#13
punkin Junior Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Posts: 6	As promised, the high today was about 14, achieved by 8am; The high tomorrow is (no joke) -2. Supposed to get down to -17 tonight. If I lived in Fairbanks, that might be fine...I don't. I live an hour north of Denver. Anyway, built a fire in the barn and was able to knock out a handful of loads. The original charge on the 180gr loads was 69gr...I loaded up 5x 71gr, 5x72gr, 5x73gr (max). Maybe next weekend we'll see what they do if it warms up!