A question on Colt Magazines

tipoc · March 17, 2014, 01:28 AM

Below is a pic of some Checkmate made (small "C" on base plate) Colt marked 45acp mags. Note the small dimple on the edge of the lower lip of the plate. These may have been on these for awhile but it's the first time I noticed them. The Colt marked mags from Metalform ("M" marked on base plate) do not have these dimples.

What is the role of those? I don't see them on older GI mags.

tipoc

Mosin44az · March 17, 2014, 01:45 AM

Is that where the mag follower contacts the slide lock? I am guessing the dimple is intended to make the engagement more positive....

KyJim · March 18, 2014, 11:07 PM

The dimple is part of Browning's original design. Member 1911Tuner has explained it this way in another forum:

Quote:

The dimple's function is two-fold. It adds a small amount of height to the follower in order to give it a "Leg Up"...and it stops the forward movement of the round. More accurately, it keeps the pistol from moving out from under the round in recoil. In this function, it's basically a back-up for the spring as it fatigues, and provides a better opportunity for the round to stay in position to be stripped from the magazine by the slide instead of being pushed ahead of it...or... in the extreme cases, escaping from the magazine completely.

A more complete explanation is at http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.ph...ion-The-Dimple.

You should listen to this man. Checkmate Industries has.

Slopemeno · March 19, 2014, 12:12 AM

Wrong dimple, I think.

tipoc · March 19, 2014, 01:12 AM

Wrong dimple KyJim. I'm not looking at the top of the follower but the one on the side of the lower lip. I don't think this is from Browning.

tipoc

g.willikers · March 19, 2014, 08:08 AM

None of my mags have that dimple on the lower part of the follower.
Maybe it's to assist the slide lock, to assure the slide stays back with an empty mag.

tipoc · March 19, 2014, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Is that where the mag follower contacts the slide lock? I am guessing the dimple is intended to make the engagement more positive....

Quote:

Maybe it's to assist the slide lock, to assure the slide stays back with an empty mag.

I'm thinking along these lines as well. But I wondered if anyone had specific knowledge of them. They only seems to be on newer mags made for Colt by Checkmate. I'm not sure if Colt asked for that feature or if Checkmate adopted it. I don't know if they are on all Checkmate mags.

So if anyone has more knowledge, or can take a look at their Checkmate mags, maybe you can add some information.

tipoc

RickB · March 19, 2014, 12:03 PM

The turned-up follower edge, which matches the downward-angled engagement surface on the slide stop, was an original feature from 1911.
I don't know if the dimple ever replaced the turned-up edge in the military specs, or if it was just a matter of "it does the same thing".
Magazine manufacturers appear to prefer to save a nickel on one less stamping operation, than provide the original, superior follower design.
I am not aware of a single "NEW AND IMPROVED!" magazine that has that feature? Even some modern "G.I." followers don't have it, but all of my 60-90yo G.I. mags have it.
The only chronic problem I've ever had with "1911" mags is failure to lock-back consistently, and you wonder if that problem would go away if modern mags didn't ignore an important original design feature?
I was reading an advertisement for a new magazine, and it claimed sixteen machine/stamping operations on the follower!

tipoc · March 19, 2014, 12:24 PM

Rick,

Do you have a pic of the original mags with the "turned-up" edge?

Some one else have one?

tipoc

Sharkbite · March 19, 2014, 01:04 PM

I looked at ALL of my Glock mags. None of them have this strange deformation

Whats a 1911 anyway. Is that like a brontosaurs or some other extinct beast??

I think i may have a blurry picture of one... Or maybe thats bigfoot.

RickB · March 19, 2014, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Rick,

Do you have a pic of the original mags with the "turned-up" edge?

Some one else have one?

tipoc

I can probably find a pic of someone else's mag, more easily than I could get a pic of one of mine. Let's google!

Especially in the middle mag, you can see the shadow created by the upturned edge of the follower.

KyJim · March 19, 2014, 02:38 PM

Oops! Sorry about the wrong dimple. I guess that's what happens when you post at midnight.

Quentin2 · March 19, 2014, 04:42 PM

Last month I bought four Colt 45 ACP logoed magazines made by Checkmate and all have the follower lip dimpled to engage the slide hold open lever.

I also have two Colt magazines from the 1970s that have the upturned lip that RickB described. One came with my 1976 Series '70 Government Model and the other I picked up somewhere along the way.

I have quite a few other GI mags, etc. but don't feel like unloading anymore to find out what they have!

All of my mags do hold back the slide on the last shot, even one that's a counterfeit GI mag. I did have a Triple K that wouldn't but got rid of it long ago.

g.willikers · March 19, 2014, 05:12 PM

While none of my mags have the dimple, some have the upturned edge, and all engage the the slide stop ok, even without it.

tipoc · March 24, 2014, 04:17 PM

I prowled further through my older mags and found on the GI mags the upturned edge. This is what the dimple is replicating.

These below have the upturned edge.

tipoc

gsparesa · March 25, 2014, 11:15 PM

Slide lock timing adjustment?

RickB · March 26, 2014, 05:56 PM

Do you mean it has historically been used for that purpose, or that it could be used for that purpose?

tipoc · March 26, 2014, 07:23 PM

Rick,

I think you hit it in post #8.

The upturned edge is an original feature. Some manufacturers have replaced it with the dimple.

In looking at the Metalform mags it appears to be missing. The older 8 round Devel mags omit it. So does McCormick with the Shooting Star. It could be the source, or part of it, of problems in some guns.

tipoc

RickB · March 27, 2014, 10:48 AM

I'm working on Check-Mate, well known for retaining the upper, center dimple, to add the other dimple to their patented follower. They double-dimple their G.I. followers, so must think it's a good idea.
I replaced the patented followers in three of my Check-Mates with G.I. followers, and they run great, and always lock back, so I think Browning/Colt were on to something when the original follower and slide stop were designed.
I was reading an ad for a new mag in Shotgun News, and they (manufacturer unknown) claim to perform sixteen machine operations on their follower, so what's one more?

March 17, 2014, 01:28 AM	#1
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	A question on Colt Magazines Below is a pic of some Checkmate made (small "C" on base plate) Colt marked 45acp mags. Note the small dimple on the edge of the lower lip of the plate. These may have been on these for awhile but it's the first time I noticed them. The Colt marked mags from Metalform ("M" marked on base plate) do not have these dimples. What is the role of those? I don't see them on older GI mags. tipoc

March 19, 2014, 08:08 AM	#6
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	None of my mags have that dimple on the lower part of the follower. Maybe it's to assist the slide lock, to assure the slide stays back with an empty mag. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

March 19, 2014, 05:12 PM	#14
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	While none of my mags have the dimple, some have the upturned edge, and all engage the the slide stop ok, even without it. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

March 17, 2014, 01:45 AM	#2
Mosin44az Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2006 Posts: 2,585	Is that where the mag follower contacts the slide lock? I am guessing the dimple is intended to make the engagement more positive....

March 19, 2014, 12:12 AM	#4
Slopemeno Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2007 Posts: 2,663	Wrong dimple, I think.

March 19, 2014, 01:12 AM	#5
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	Wrong dimple KyJim. I'm not looking at the top of the follower but the one on the side of the lower lip. I don't think this is from Browning. tipoc

March 19, 2014, 12:03 PM	#8
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	The turned-up follower edge, which matches the downward-angled engagement surface on the slide stop, was an original feature from 1911. I don't know if the dimple ever replaced the turned-up edge in the military specs, or if it was just a matter of "it does the same thing". Magazine manufacturers appear to prefer to save a nickel on one less stamping operation, than provide the original, superior follower design. I am not aware of a single "NEW AND IMPROVED!" magazine that has that feature? Even some modern "G.I." followers don't have it, but all of my 60-90yo G.I. mags have it. The only chronic problem I've ever had with "1911" mags is failure to lock-back consistently, and you wonder if that problem would go away if modern mags didn't ignore an important original design feature? I was reading an advertisement for a new magazine, and it claimed sixteen machine/stamping operations on the follower!

March 19, 2014, 12:24 PM	#9
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	Rick, Do you have a pic of the original mags with the "turned-up" edge? Some one else have one? tipoc

March 19, 2014, 01:04 PM	#10
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	I looked at ALL of my Glock mags. None of them have this strange deformation Whats a 1911 anyway. Is that like a brontosaurs or some other extinct beast?? I think i may have a blurry picture of one... Or maybe thats bigfoot.

March 19, 2014, 02:38 PM	#12
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	Oops! Sorry about the wrong dimple. I guess that's what happens when you post at midnight.

March 19, 2014, 04:42 PM	#13
Quentin2 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Location: NorthWest USA Posts: 1,996	Last month I bought four Colt 45 ACP logoed magazines made by Checkmate and all have the follower lip dimpled to engage the slide hold open lever. I also have two Colt magazines from the 1970s that have the upturned lip that RickB described. One came with my 1976 Series '70 Government Model and the other I picked up somewhere along the way. I have quite a few other GI mags, etc. but don't feel like unloading anymore to find out what they have! All of my mags do hold back the slide on the last shot, even one that's a counterfeit GI mag. I did have a Triple K that wouldn't but got rid of it long ago.

March 24, 2014, 04:17 PM	#15
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	I prowled further through my older mags and found on the GI mags the upturned edge. This is what the dimple is replicating. These below have the upturned edge. tipoc

March 25, 2014, 11:15 PM	#16
gsparesa Member Join Date: January 3, 2013 Posts: 64	Slide lock timing adjustment?

March 26, 2014, 05:56 PM	#17
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Do you mean it has historically been used for that purpose, or that it could be used for that purpose?

March 26, 2014, 07:23 PM	#18
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	Rick, I think you hit it in post #8. The upturned edge is an original feature. Some manufacturers have replaced it with the dimple. In looking at the Metalform mags it appears to be missing. The older 8 round Devel mags omit it. So does McCormick with the Shooting Star. It could be the source, or part of it, of problems in some guns. tipoc

March 27, 2014, 10:48 AM	#19
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	I'm working on Check-Mate, well known for retaining the upper, center dimple, to add the other dimple to their patented follower. They double-dimple their G.I. followers, so must think it's a good idea. I replaced the patented followers in three of my Check-Mates with G.I. followers, and they run great, and always lock back, so I think Browning/Colt were on to something when the original follower and slide stop were designed. I was reading an ad for a new mag in Shotgun News, and they (manufacturer unknown) claim to perform sixteen machine operations on their follower, so what's one more?