F Troop strikes again in Tucson - Page 2

Tamara · February 13, 2002, 05:15 PM

Quote:

You're right! I'd better keep my 1864 Springfield "military rifle" out of sight before they cut a hole in my roof too.

Oh, they don't just want that dangerous Springfield Military Rifle, they'll cut a hole in your roof to retrieve all those tins of powd... er, Pyrodex bombs like they did to this poor guy. Whie he was in the HOSPITAL!!!

Whatinahell is this country coming to? A guy can't keep a bunch of C&R crank-cockers in his house in Arizona without everyone getting the vapors like they're auditioning for the part of Scarlett O'freaking-Hara?

deanf · February 13, 2002, 06:18 PM

10 to 1 we see a picture of his bulldozed lot on the news in 3 days.

Joe Portale · February 13, 2002, 06:41 PM

I haven't seen the news or read the Tucson Red Star or Comrade today, been busy. I ahve followed this on the radio. It was interesting to hear how this story started out big qand sensational and last news braodcast a simple passing reference. It was said that the paramedics entered the house "to get a blanket to cover the naked Eroh..." Uhmm, don't they carry balnkets on ambulances? All this tells me is don't pass out on your pourch, it will give the cops and anyone else the okay to ransack your property.

I did hear that Eroh laid out booby traps (trip wires attached to pepper spray and other non- lethal sprays around his collection. The 22nd and Country Club area is not the best of neighborhoods. People in that neck of the woods have more than their fair share of burglaries and gang activity. So in a way, I do not blame the guy for setting out some pest control devices. I believe those pepper spray gags are perfectly legal.

The police, although not formally commenting have stated that they are removing the firearms for safe keeping while Eroh is hospitalized... YEAH, RIGHT!!

I hope this guy has some family that will step up and claim that stuff. If not when he recovers he may find that his collection was "misplaced".

faraway · February 13, 2002, 08:34 PM

This type of rot seems to be spreading...got a firearm...don't let the fire department,paramedics,building code, meter reader,
dog catcher,teachers,parks and rec,etc know there's any firearms about...at least, it appears to be the case in some metros. As for his attorney creaming the Tucson City Gov't..he may not have the money to pursue that (living in a apparent dead zone)and they probably just took his liquid assets. And the other problem is, simply litigation can cost a great deal..and the gentry can outspend upstarts.
Since these incidents are now common...it's time for RKBA's orgs. to establish member funds or tontines, which would be directly applied to legal costs..against legal attacks of this sort. Otherwise, we'll have to learn to make sure to die inside...and notify friends/relatives of upcoming heart attacks...so they can relocate 'contraband'.

sumabich · February 13, 2002, 08:42 PM

I think it's time for a little TFL hits the Arizona fan

We need to get some 2nd amendment rights attorneys to get a cease and dismiss and start kicking some butt. Anyone got some personal connections with Senators and Reps. If this can happen in such a Pro-gun area, I shudder to think what might happen elsewhere. What other forces can we bring to bear on this one. I'm ready with a checkbook and I'll melt these freakin keys writing anyone I can to help. I think this guy just became this SOB's poster child for the month

I am going to see if I can get in touch with Angel Shamia and see if they'll do something.

sumabich · February 13, 2002, 09:28 PM

SOB been busy! I have just sent emails and links to that article to Aaron at JPFO, Angel at CCRKBA, Ed at REF, the national TRT, and the armed citizen. If someone would, please send one to that group on the beltway..... NRA, I won't because I'd be afraid they would negotiate to let him keep half of his guns. Come on people let's get busy here! Anyone know if there is a pink pistol's chapter in Arizona?

This is one we can and should all get together on and kick some sociocrat butt. Ain't it amazing what you can get away with in the name of Public Safety? Let's go people, times a wasteing. If you have committed to call in the morning, please keep us posted on your progress. Now, everyone, shut those computers off and get a good nights sleep. We will need our witts about us tomorrow!

Joe Portale · February 13, 2002, 09:29 PM

Step ahead of you Sumabich, I know a couple of pro-2nd lawyers. And a good friend of mine is pretty tight with some of the folks on the NRA National Board. The phone lines will be burning tomorrow.

TO ARMS! TO ARMS!

RALLY AROUND THE FLAG FOLKS, This is a call to action to all 'Zonies in Southern Arizona and all the good people of the land!

Get those key boards clattering. Email and call your reps, call and write the papers, TV and radio news stations. This guy may have been a bit of a crank, but he can't fight for himself. Let's do it!

Bottom Gun · February 13, 2002, 11:08 PM

Got home in time to catch the 6:00 o'clock news on TV. They're now claiming this guy had illegal "military explosives" in the form of 20MM rounds and talking about charging him.
I hope, for his sake, they turn out to be inert. I didn't hear any further mention of the alleged "mortar shells" they claimed to find earlier.
They also claimed to have removed over 120 lb of black powder.

The talking head went on to say that air traffic was diverted in the area since "if one of those anti-aircraft shells was fired, it could cause serious trouble for aircraft flying over the property".
Of course the fact that this guy didn't have a 20MM cannon or any other means of firing the rounds was irrelevant. I guess they just periodically go off by themselves.

The neighbors were finally allowed to return to their homes today.

The way the media is spinning this, it's very hard to know what to believe but perhaps some action is necessary if it turns out this guy didn't break any laws.

This could happen to any one of us who owns a couple of guns and certainly those of us who reload. I, for one, normally have a few pounds of black and smokeless powder around the house, not to mention what they would refer to as my RCBS and Dillon "bomb making eqiupment", some pipe and fittings in the storage shed, wire, fertilizer, etc. Not to mention a couple evil "military style weapons".

Maybe it's time to get involved when we can get all the facts. Does anyone know which hospital he's in and better yet know anyone working at that hospital?

From what I hear, this guy doesn't have any family here and he may not have anyone anywhere else to give him a helping hand if he even makes it out of the hospital.
I'm not sure how much longer my contract here will last, but my home is only a little over an hour from Tucson so if some of us want to help this guy out, maybe we can get together and do just that.
Maybe contribute to a legal defense fund for him?
Maybe take up a collection?
Maybe help him clean up that ungodly mess they're making for him in his house?
I know I'd sure appreciate some help if I was in his shoes.

What do you think, Guys? Want to do more than just talk about it?

clem · February 13, 2002, 11:11 PM

Contact the TV stations news rooms:

channel 4 520-624-2477

channel 9 520-290-7700

channel 13 520-624-2511

or www.kvoa.com

www.kgun.com

www.kold.com

have fun.

Clem
USMC Retired

**Rich Lucibella** · February 13, 2002, 11:44 PM

Oh, I've had enough of this stuff! TFL hasn't had a good brawl since the HCI standoff (errr, run off). Somebody get in touch with this guy and tell him there's a suit with his name on ot...AND WE"RE GONNA BACK IT!

Serious as a heart attack, with no pun intended.
Rich Lucibella

Nightcrawler · February 14, 2002, 12:00 AM

THere probably will be a fire, if F-Troop is involved. There's almost always a fire when they're around. They're the arson experts, after all. IF there's a fire, you know they're there.

Jim V · February 14, 2002, 06:52 AM

The Feebs would have to be there too. Waco, etc. remember. FBI = Famlies Being Incinerated.

coati · February 14, 2002, 09:16 AM

If the Tucson Weekly gets ahold of this, they'll have no end of fun trashing the perps in this abomination. Shoot them a letter: they're a liberal free weekly but I think they'll stir up some stuff.

Bottom Gun · February 14, 2002, 09:38 AM

I watched the late TV news last night and saw one of the blue jackets with big yellow ATF characters on the back so they are definitely on the scene.

TPD hauled the booty off in two large trucks with lights flashing and a twin motorcycle escort with lights flashing as well.
Very dramatic. This whole thing reminds me of a grade B Hollywood movie.

The newscaster mentioned that Eroh had exceeded the amount of powder allowed by the city regulations.
This is something I haven't heard of before. Apparently the city of Tucson has set a limit on the amount of powder an individual can possess. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Kharn · February 14, 2002, 09:43 AM

Sounds like he was just an old C&R guy who had a medical problem and the police are getting penis envy.

Kharn

gorlitsa · February 14, 2002, 10:35 AM

http://www.azstarnet.com/star/today/...XPLOSIVES.html

GRRRRRR

What is the federal limit for black powder?

BTW, my letter to the editor was not published today. Maybe tomrrow.... Keep y'all updated.

SW9M · February 14, 2002, 10:48 AM

How did they know his house was booby-trapped?

Did they trip one?

Or did they already know?

gorlitsa · February 14, 2002, 10:58 AM

I think he told his neighbors that the house was booby-trapped. They probably told the police.

But we can still hold onto the picture of an ATF guy getting a face full of pepper spray when he tried to open the closet.

griz · February 14, 2002, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Apparently the city of Tucson has set a limit on the amount of powder an individual can possess. Can anyone shed some light on this?

I've never been to Tucson but any city can make restrictive laws in the name of safety. Hampton Virginia limits the amount of smokeless powder (don't know about black) a dealer can display at a gun show to one pound. This makes the dealers display powder labels and you have to go with them to their truck to make a purchase. This of course has the desired effect of hurting sales at gun shows.
In the same coliseum however, you can have car dealers drive in their new cars for display with full tanks of gas. They also have monster truck races. Obviously the potential for fire is greater with the gasoline, but the laws don't have to make sense.

As far as this thread goes, I'll wait for more info on the "traps" before commenting. Hope the guy is OK, being in critical condition he may not be concerned about his house right now.

OF · February 14, 2002, 12:16 PM

Spin 101 brought to you by: * Contact L. Anne Newell at 629-9412 or at [email protected]. of the Arizona Daily Star.

http://www.azstarnet.com/star/today...EXPLOSIVES.html (gorlitsa's link)

Quote:

police Capt. Clayton Kidd, head of the department's specialized response division.

Quote:

...as well as a charge for possession of materials used to make bombs.

Quote:

"This was a very, very serious scene. I cannot emphasize that enough," Kidd said.

Quote:

Resident Carmen Ortega said: "I feel very good and comfortable. But I hope he never comes back to this neighborhood. I hope they put him in jail."

Quote:

He said police were concerned with the large number of firearms

Quote:

The house was crammed with not only firearms and gunpowder, but also books, tools, benches, videos and much more, Kidd said.

rowdy1 · February 14, 2002, 01:46 PM

gorlitsa,
I believe if you don't have a license the limit is fifty pounds of black powder.

sumabich · February 14, 2002, 01:48 PM

First, we need all the Facts we can get, possible relatives, what he really had etc. 2nd, what laws may have been broken, and then let us act accordingly, I have sent copies of the articles to any one I think might be of help but we may need to hire someone in the area to do some scouting work. I'm in for funding whatever I can if this guy is just a collector. At this stage it appears he is defenseless so it is their word against his. Without a search warrent I worry they haven't cataloged items and that it will be all to easy for them to come up with evidence. I'm still mad as hell but I'm down to one

smiley now.

rowdy1 · February 14, 2002, 02:00 PM

I missed it in the first story, he does have a dealers permit from the ATF.

So what is illegal for him?

Bottom Gun · February 14, 2002, 02:46 PM

Rowdy1,

Does that 50 lb limit you mentioned include smokeless powder as well?
Do they list black separately or is it just 50 lb in the aggregate?

Tamara · February 14, 2002, 02:58 PM

...I'd bet dollars to donuts that he had a C&R license.

Good thing they made the world safe for democrazy by rounding up all his Mauser Commission Rifles.

February 13, 2002, 06:18 PM	#27
deanf Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 1999 Location: N47º 12’ x W122º 10' Posts: 1,599	10 to 1 we see a picture of his bulldozed lot on the news in 3 days. __________________ I'm a constitutional fetishist. Airplane Pictures

February 13, 2002, 06:41 PM	#28
Joe Portale Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 1999 Location: Tucson, Arizona Territory Posts: 715	I haven't seen the news or read the Tucson Red Star or Comrade today, been busy. I ahve followed this on the radio. It was interesting to hear how this story started out big qand sensational and last news braodcast a simple passing reference. It was said that the paramedics entered the house "to get a blanket to cover the naked Eroh..." Uhmm, don't they carry balnkets on ambulances? All this tells me is don't pass out on your pourch, it will give the cops and anyone else the okay to ransack your property. I did hear that Eroh laid out booby traps (trip wires attached to pepper spray and other non- lethal sprays around his collection. The 22nd and Country Club area is not the best of neighborhoods. People in that neck of the woods have more than their fair share of burglaries and gang activity. So in a way, I do not blame the guy for setting out some pest control devices. I believe those pepper spray gags are perfectly legal. The police, although not formally commenting have stated that they are removing the firearms for safe keeping while Eroh is hospitalized... YEAH, RIGHT!! I hope this guy has some family that will step up and claim that stuff. If not when he recovers he may find that his collection was "misplaced". __________________ Joe Portale Tucson, Arizona Territory "Even now in heaven there are angles carrying savage weapons". - St Paul

February 13, 2002, 08:42 PM	#30
sumabich Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2000 Location: NC,USA Posts: 861	This could happen to any of us. I think it's time for a little TFL hits the Arizona fan We need to get some 2nd amendment rights attorneys to get a cease and dismiss and start kicking some butt. Anyone got some personal connections with Senators and Reps. If this can happen in such a Pro-gun area, I shudder to think what might happen elsewhere. What other forces can we bring to bear on this one. I'm ready with a checkbook and I'll melt these freakin keys writing anyone I can to help. I think this guy just became this SOB's poster child for the month I am going to see if I can get in touch with Angel Shamia and see if they'll do something.

February 13, 2002, 09:28 PM	#31
sumabich Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2000 Location: NC,USA Posts: 861	So what have the rest of you done in the last 20 minutes? SOB been busy! I have just sent emails and links to that article to Aaron at JPFO, Angel at CCRKBA, Ed at REF, the national TRT, and the armed citizen. If someone would, please send one to that group on the beltway..... NRA, I won't because I'd be afraid they would negotiate to let him keep half of his guns. Come on people let's get busy here! Anyone know if there is a pink pistol's chapter in Arizona? This is one we can and should all get together on and kick some sociocrat butt. Ain't it amazing what you can get away with in the name of Public Safety? Let's go people, times a wasteing. If you have committed to call in the morning, please keep us posted on your progress. Now, everyone, shut those computers off and get a good nights sleep. We will need our witts about us tomorrow!

February 13, 2002, 09:29 PM	#32
Joe Portale Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 1999 Location: Tucson, Arizona Territory Posts: 715	Step ahead of you Sumabich, I know a couple of pro-2nd lawyers. And a good friend of mine is pretty tight with some of the folks on the NRA National Board. The phone lines will be burning tomorrow. TO ARMS! TO ARMS! RALLY AROUND THE FLAG FOLKS, This is a call to action to all 'Zonies in Southern Arizona and all the good people of the land! Get those key boards clattering. Email and call your reps, call and write the papers, TV and radio news stations. This guy may have been a bit of a crank, but he can't fight for himself. Let's do it! __________________ Joe Portale Tucson, Arizona Territory "Even now in heaven there are angles carrying savage weapons". - St Paul

February 13, 2002, 08:34 PM	#29
faraway Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2001 Location: ne montana Posts: 437	This type of rot seems to be spreading...got a firearm...don't let the fire department,paramedics,building code, meter reader, dog catcher,teachers,parks and rec,etc know there's any firearms about...at least, it appears to be the case in some metros. As for his attorney creaming the Tucson City Gov't..he may not have the money to pursue that (living in a apparent dead zone)and they probably just took his liquid assets. And the other problem is, simply litigation can cost a great deal..and the gentry can outspend upstarts. Since these incidents are now common...it's time for RKBA's orgs. to establish member funds or tontines, which would be directly applied to legal costs..against legal attacks of this sort. Otherwise, we'll have to learn to make sure to die inside...and notify friends/relatives of upcoming heart attacks...so they can relocate 'contraband'.

February 13, 2002, 11:08 PM	#33
Bottom Gun Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Arizona Territory Posts: 1,092	Got home in time to catch the 6:00 o'clock news on TV. They're now claiming this guy had illegal "military explosives" in the form of 20MM rounds and talking about charging him. I hope, for his sake, they turn out to be inert. I didn't hear any further mention of the alleged "mortar shells" they claimed to find earlier. They also claimed to have removed over 120 lb of black powder. The talking head went on to say that air traffic was diverted in the area since "if one of those anti-aircraft shells was fired, it could cause serious trouble for aircraft flying over the property". Of course the fact that this guy didn't have a 20MM cannon or any other means of firing the rounds was irrelevant. I guess they just periodically go off by themselves. The neighbors were finally allowed to return to their homes today. The way the media is spinning this, it's very hard to know what to believe but perhaps some action is necessary if it turns out this guy didn't break any laws. This could happen to any one of us who owns a couple of guns and certainly those of us who reload. I, for one, normally have a few pounds of black and smokeless powder around the house, not to mention what they would refer to as my RCBS and Dillon "bomb making eqiupment", some pipe and fittings in the storage shed, wire, fertilizer, etc. Not to mention a couple evil "military style weapons". Maybe it's time to get involved when we can get all the facts. Does anyone know which hospital he's in and better yet know anyone working at that hospital? From what I hear, this guy doesn't have any family here and he may not have anyone anywhere else to give him a helping hand if he even makes it out of the hospital. I'm not sure how much longer my contract here will last, but my home is only a little over an hour from Tucson so if some of us want to help this guy out, maybe we can get together and do just that. Maybe contribute to a legal defense fund for him? Maybe take up a collection? Maybe help him clean up that ungodly mess they're making for him in his house? I know I'd sure appreciate some help if I was in his shoes. What do you think, Guys? Want to do more than just talk about it?

February 13, 2002, 11:11 PM	#34
clem Junior member Join Date: April 17, 2001 Location: Arizona Territory Posts: 847	Contact the TV stations news rooms: channel 4 520-624-2477 channel 9 520-290-7700 channel 13 520-624-2511 or www.kvoa.com www.kgun.com www.kold.com have fun. Clem USMC Retired

February 13, 2002, 11:44 PM	#35
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Oh, I've had enough of this stuff! TFL hasn't had a good brawl since the HCI standoff (errr, run off). Somebody get in touch with this guy and tell him there's a suit with his name on ot...AND WE"RE GONNA BACK IT! Serious as a heart attack, with no pun intended. Rich Lucibella __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

February 14, 2002, 12:00 AM	#36
Nightcrawler Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2000 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,945	Burn the place down THere probably will be a fire, if F-Troop is involved. There's almost always a fire when they're around. They're the arson experts, after all. IF there's a fire, you know they're there. __________________ Nightcrawler- TFL Alumnus

February 14, 2002, 06:52 AM	#37
Jim V Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 1999 Location: SE Michigan - USA Posts: 4,038	The Feebs would have to be there too. Waco, etc. remember. FBI = Famlies Being Incinerated. __________________ *MOLON LABE* If it ain't metal, single stack & single action, it ain't a 1911 no matter what it looks like. 1911 Forum THE TUBBY CURMUDGEON

February 14, 2002, 09:16 AM	#38
coati Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2001 Location: Just outside the beltway, VA Posts: 288	gorlitsa and other Tucsonans If the Tucson Weekly gets ahold of this, they'll have no end of fun trashing the perps in this abomination. Shoot them a letter: they're a liberal free weekly but I think they'll stir up some stuff. __________________ coati

February 14, 2002, 09:38 AM	#39
Bottom Gun Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Arizona Territory Posts: 1,092	I watched the late TV news last night and saw one of the blue jackets with big yellow ATF characters on the back so they are definitely on the scene. TPD hauled the booty off in two large trucks with lights flashing and a twin motorcycle escort with lights flashing as well. Very dramatic. This whole thing reminds me of a grade B Hollywood movie. The newscaster mentioned that Eroh had exceeded the amount of powder allowed by the city regulations. This is something I haven't heard of before. Apparently the city of Tucson has set a limit on the amount of powder an individual can possess. Can anyone shed some light on this?

February 14, 2002, 09:43 AM	#40
Kharn Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,531	Sounds like he was just an old C&R guy who had a medical problem and the police are getting penis envy. Kharn

February 14, 2002, 10:35 AM	#41
gorlitsa Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: The Old Pueblo Posts: 644	New Update http://www.azstarnet.com/star/today/...XPLOSIVES.html GRRRRRR What is the federal limit for black powder? BTW, my letter to the editor was not published today. Maybe tomrrow.... Keep y'all updated. __________________ Elizabeth

February 14, 2002, 10:48 AM	#42
SW9M Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2001 Location: Free Plains of Texas Posts: 446	How did they know his house was booby-trapped? Did they trip one? Or did they already know? __________________ Tyrants prefer: an unarmed and gagged peasant. Malo mori quam foedari. Malon Labe.

February 14, 2002, 10:58 AM	#43
gorlitsa Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: The Old Pueblo Posts: 644	I think he told his neighbors that the house was booby-trapped. They probably told the police. But we can still hold onto the picture of an ATF guy getting a face full of pepper spray when he tried to open the closet. __________________ Elizabeth

February 14, 2002, 01:46 PM	#46
rowdy1 Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2001 Location: Communist California Posts: 240	gorlitsa, I believe if you don't have a license the limit is fifty pounds of black powder.

February 14, 2002, 01:48 PM	#47
sumabich Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2000 Location: NC,USA Posts: 861	Thanks Rich! First, we need all the Facts we can get, possible relatives, what he really had etc. 2nd, what laws may have been broken, and then let us act accordingly, I have sent copies of the articles to any one I think might be of help but we may need to hire someone in the area to do some scouting work. I'm in for funding whatever I can if this guy is just a collector. At this stage it appears he is defenseless so it is their word against his. Without a search warrent I worry they haven't cataloged items and that it will be all to easy for them to come up with evidence. I'm still mad as hell but I'm down to one smiley now.

February 14, 2002, 02:00 PM	#48
rowdy1 Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2001 Location: Communist California Posts: 240	I missed it in the first story, he does have a dealers permit from the ATF. So what is illegal for him?

February 14, 2002, 02:46 PM	#49
Bottom Gun Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Arizona Territory Posts: 1,092	Rowdy1, Does that 50 lb limit you mentioned include smokeless powder as well? Do they list black separately or is it just 50 lb in the aggregate?

February 14, 2002, 02:58 PM	#50
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	Reading between the lines... ...I'd bet dollars to donuts that he had a C&R license. Good thing they made the world safe for democrazy by rounding up all his Mauser Commission Rifles. __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

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