Recommend an all-round good rifle powder

ScotchMan · March 29, 2012, 10:22 AM

I'm looking to get into reloading .223 for an AR-15 and .308 for a bolt-gun. I like the simplicity of stocking as few components as possible. Looking for recommendations on one powder I can use to reload both these cartridges.

Kevin Rohrer · March 29, 2012, 10:31 AM

Have you checked your reloading manuals and found those powders that will work with both powders?

Idaho Spud · March 29, 2012, 10:53 AM

I'll go out on a limb and recommend W748 for these. When I was starting out many years ago it was what I used in 308 Win. Don't load those anymore, and don't use 748 at all, but know it's also recommended for 223, at least with 55 gr. and under bullets. That being said I like Benchmark for 223, which works great in my 1-14 twist barrelled Tikka with 50 gr. and 55 gr. flat base bullets.

Should work good for 150-180 grainers in 308 Win.

edit: might look into BLC(2), also, another "old" powder. Don't know about accuracy with this powder, but the vel in the 223 (on Hodgdon) looks higher than 748. Both are "ball" powders, which work great in most powder measures. 223 can be a pain to load with some "stick" powders.

capodastro · March 29, 2012, 12:13 PM

powder is only $22 to $26 a lb. why not get what is optimal for each particular cartridge, ya know.

**Unclenick** · March 29, 2012, 01:21 PM

You can use the same powder in the two rounds, but for best performance you'll find you need to pick one that favors heavier bullets in the AR if it works from middle to heavy in the .308, and vice versa. AR-Comp can be used over a wide range in both cartridges, but favors heavier bullets in both chamberings. RL 10X is good for lighter bullets in both. But the middling powders, like H4895 or Varget, I think you'll find run the .308 fine from about 150 to 180 grains, but in the AR just won't be best performers with bullets under 62 grains.

But YMMV. All guns are individuals. I would generalize that if you want to shoot light bullets in the .223 and heavy bullets in the .308, you'll probably end up with two powders. Your barrel twist rates may make this decision for you, though. .308's are usually 10" or 12" twists, and those handle the normal weight bullets. But .223's come with anything from 7" to 12" twist commonly, and few 14" barrels are out there. So, say what you have and then well know better what you can shoot.

farmerboy · March 29, 2012, 01:28 PM

Varget works for me for those two cartridges but that's in my guns.

ScotchMan · March 29, 2012, 01:31 PM

Thanks for the advice. I may eventually end up with multiple powders, but I'd like to start out with one, and even if I do have more than one powder, it'd be nice to be able to use it for both cartridges in case of shortages, etc.

Guns are:

16" AR with 1:9 twist.

24" .308 with 1:10 twist.

Rangefinder · March 29, 2012, 01:56 PM

Varget is popular. H335 is what I use, and it swaps across to my .32Winchester, and my AK both. I personally hate having powder dedicated to just one cartridge. Keep in mind it can be necessary for peak performance, however.

Slamfire · March 29, 2012, 01:56 PM

I used to recommend IMR 4895/AA2495/H4895, AA2495 is a copy of IMR 4895, in the eighties H4895 was a copy, but now is an "extreme powder".

Any of these powders will shoot sub moa with most bullet weights in the .223 and 308

However, I am now leaning towards Varget in both applications. Varget is a little slower than IMR 4895, I have used it with 190's in the 308, and target shooters use it with outstanding results in the .223.

PawPaw · March 29, 2012, 05:40 PM

4895 of either flavor will work well in both of those.

Go to the Hodgdon website and look at their Reloading Data Center. When it tells you to pick a cartridge, pick one at random and then select IMR 4895. I'll bet that there are one or more loads for that powder. I'm continually amazed at how versatile 4895 is and I keep it on the bench all the time. If I'm ever stumped on a powder choice, 4895 gets the nod.

huntinaz · March 29, 2012, 06:17 PM

Quote:

When it tells you to pick a cartridge, pick one at random and then select IMR 4895. I'll bet that there are one or more loads for that powder. I'm continually amazed at how versatile 4895 is and I keep it on the bench all the time. If I'm ever stumped on a powder choice, 4895 gets the nod.

Yep. Great powder.

Rangefinder · March 29, 2012, 08:22 PM

Quote:

I'm continually amazed at how versatile 4895 is and I keep it on the bench all the time. If I'm ever stumped on a powder choice, 4895 gets the nod.

It's not always the best for what you want to do, but that is an absolute true statement. That is one powder I ALWAYS have on hand--no matter what, I can always load if I have it.

HiBC · March 30, 2012, 03:59 AM

Your 1 in 9 twist AR will shoot 69 gr bullets just fine.For many purposes,the .308 is quite good with either a 168 gr match bullet or a 165 gr hunting bullet.I have found the Nosler line,a 168 gr custom Comp,the 165 gr Ballistic Tip,and the 165 gr Accubond to be a versatile line up with near identical BC's.
I have found Varget to be a good performer in both cartridges.RE-15 is another possibility.

If you want to shoot lighter bullets in your AR,I'd switch to a little quicker powder.Brother is getting outstanding accuracy from 60 gr Nosler Varmint Ballistic tips and Benchmark.

RobertInIowa · March 30, 2012, 07:12 AM

IMO you would do well with Varget. Benchmark would be my second choice.

capodastro · March 30, 2012, 07:20 AM

thumbs up for h4895. great stuff!

Jim243 · March 30, 2012, 10:42 AM

All around good powder, well this is no supprise H-4895 or IMR-4895, it's been around since the late 1940's. Another good powder is IMR-4350.

A personal observation is that the bullet weight is a prime factor in what works. For bullets 55 grains or less H-335 is excelent over 55 grains H-4895 seems to work better. But you could also use IMR-8208 XBR, Varget or IMR 3031.

Just an opinion
Jim

bumnote · March 30, 2012, 06:26 PM

Buy a lb. of Varget to keep on hand for the calibers you don't have yet. When you buy another rifle in a different caliber and start loading for it, you'll already have powder that you can use for it. It's the one powder I have that will work on every rifle caliber I have.

I love Benchmark for my 223 and 308 loads, meters like a dream and burns clean.

farmerboy · March 30, 2012, 06:58 PM

I do the same with Varget. Goes in every rifle I own. Once you find a pet load, it'll make a ragged hole. If not your bullet weight or type needs to be found and then you'll find a ragged hole with testing. Love the stuff!

Jimro · March 31, 2012, 09:41 AM

If you are using a progressive press, consider a ball powder like Alliant Power Pro 2000-MR. Folks have called it a ball version of Reloader 15, which is also a good choice for 223 and 308 with heavier bullets.

In one of the recent issues of Handloader there was a goood article on Hogdon CFE, which looks like it would also suit your purposes.

If you aren't using a progressive press, then it is hard to beat the decades of published data for the 4895 powders.

Jimro

Rimfire5 · March 31, 2012, 04:42 PM

Another very strong recommendation for H4895 for both the .308 and .223.
I have loaded and measured Reloader 15, Varget, Vihta Vuori N150 and H335 as well as H4895.

For my Savage 10FP (.308) and my CZ 527 (.223) their top 20 best hand loads are dominated by H4895 with a variety of bullets and weights.
.223 - 15 of the top 20 handloads are H4895 including 50, 52, 55 and 63 grain bullets from Berger and Sierra.
.308 - 17 of the top 20 hand loads are H4895 including both 150 and 168 grain bullets from Sierra, Hornady and Nosler.

The top 10 best loads are even more biased toward H4895
.308 - 9 of the top 10 with an average group size of 0.499 for 91 groups at 100 yards.
.223 - 8 of the top 10 with an average group size of 0.402 for 79 groups at 100 yards.

After all that testing, I have pretty well focused on H4895 for those two rifles.
It seems to fit your basic parameters - easy to meter, provides accurate loads with a variety of bullet weights and provides ample velocity in either rifle.

March 29, 2012, 10:22 AM	#1
ScotchMan Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2011 Posts: 1,368	Recommend an all-round good rifle powder I'm looking to get into reloading .223 for an AR-15 and .308 for a bolt-gun. I like the simplicity of stocking as few components as possible. Looking for recommendations on one powder I can use to reload both these cartridges.

March 29, 2012, 10:31 AM	#2
Kevin Rohrer Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2010 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 1,049	Have you checked your reloading manuals and found those powders that will work with both powders? __________________ Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA--Life, ARTCA, and American Legion. Caveat Emptor: Cavery Grips/AmericanGripz/Prestige Grips/Stealth Grips from Clayton, NC. He is a scammer

March 29, 2012, 10:53 AM	#3
Idaho Spud Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2010 Posts: 330	I'll go out on a limb and recommend W748 for these. When I was starting out many years ago it was what I used in 308 Win. Don't load those anymore, and don't use 748 at all, but know it's also recommended for 223, at least with 55 gr. and under bullets. That being said I like Benchmark for 223, which works great in my 1-14 twist barrelled Tikka with 50 gr. and 55 gr. flat base bullets. Should work good for 150-180 grainers in 308 Win. edit: might look into BLC(2), also, another "old" powder. Don't know about accuracy with this powder, but the vel in the 223 (on Hodgdon) looks higher than 748. Both are "ball" powders, which work great in most powder measures. 223 can be a pain to load with some "stick" powders. Last edited by Idaho Spud; March 29, 2012 at 11:55 AM.

March 29, 2012, 01:21 PM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,057	You can use the same powder in the two rounds, but for best performance you'll find you need to pick one that favors heavier bullets in the AR if it works from middle to heavy in the .308, and vice versa. AR-Comp can be used over a wide range in both cartridges, but favors heavier bullets in both chamberings. RL 10X is good for lighter bullets in both. But the middling powders, like H4895 or Varget, I think you'll find run the .308 fine from about 150 to 180 grains, but in the AR just won't be best performers with bullets under 62 grains. But YMMV. All guns are individuals. I would generalize that if you want to shoot light bullets in the .223 and heavy bullets in the .308, you'll probably end up with two powders. Your barrel twist rates may make this decision for you, though. .308's are usually 10" or 12" twists, and those handle the normal weight bullets. But .223's come with anything from 7" to 12" twist commonly, and few 14" barrels are out there. So, say what you have and then well know better what you can shoot. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 29, 2012, 01:56 PM	#8
Rangefinder Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2005 Posts: 2,017	Varget is popular. H335 is what I use, and it swaps across to my .32Winchester, and my AK both. I personally hate having powder dedicated to just one cartridge. Keep in mind it can be necessary for peak performance, however. __________________ "Why is is called Common Sense when it seems so few actually possess it?" Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians.

March 29, 2012, 12:13 PM	#4
capodastro Member Join Date: March 16, 2012 Location: bondurant, wyoming Posts: 41	powder is only $22 to $26 a lb. why not get what is optimal for each particular cartridge, ya know.

March 29, 2012, 01:28 PM	#6
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	Varget works for me for those two cartridges but that's in my guns.

March 29, 2012, 01:31 PM	#7
ScotchMan Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2011 Posts: 1,368	Thanks for the advice. I may eventually end up with multiple powders, but I'd like to start out with one, and even if I do have more than one powder, it'd be nice to be able to use it for both cartridges in case of shortages, etc. Guns are: 16" AR with 1:9 twist. 24" .308 with 1:10 twist.

March 29, 2012, 01:56 PM	#9
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	I used to recommend IMR 4895/AA2495/H4895, AA2495 is a copy of IMR 4895, in the eighties H4895 was a copy, but now is an "extreme powder". Any of these powders will shoot sub moa with most bullet weights in the .223 and 308 However, I am now leaning towards Varget in both applications. Varget is a little slower than IMR 4895, I have used it with 190's in the 308, and target shooters use it with outstanding results in the .223. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

March 29, 2012, 05:40 PM	#10
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	4895 of either flavor will work well in both of those. Go to the Hodgdon website and look at their Reloading Data Center. When it tells you to pick a cartridge, pick one at random and then select IMR 4895. I'll bet that there are one or more loads for that powder. I'm continually amazed at how versatile 4895 is and I keep it on the bench all the time. If I'm ever stumped on a powder choice, 4895 gets the nod. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

March 30, 2012, 03:59 AM	#13
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	Your 1 in 9 twist AR will shoot 69 gr bullets just fine.For many purposes,the .308 is quite good with either a 168 gr match bullet or a 165 gr hunting bullet.I have found the Nosler line,a 168 gr custom Comp,the 165 gr Ballistic Tip,and the 165 gr Accubond to be a versatile line up with near identical BC's. I have found Varget to be a good performer in both cartridges.RE-15 is another possibility. If you want to shoot lighter bullets in your AR,I'd switch to a little quicker powder.Brother is getting outstanding accuracy from 60 gr Nosler Varmint Ballistic tips and Benchmark.

March 30, 2012, 07:12 AM	#14
RobertInIowa Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2012 Location: Iowa Posts: 149	IMO you would do well with Varget. Benchmark would be my second choice. __________________ Guns don't kill people, fathers with pretty daughters do. Two wrongs don't make a right, but three comes pretty close. Proud NRA member

March 30, 2012, 07:20 AM	#15
capodastro Member Join Date: March 16, 2012 Location: bondurant, wyoming Posts: 41	thumbs up for h4895. great stuff!

March 30, 2012, 10:42 AM	#16
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	All around good powder, well this is no supprise H-4895 or IMR-4895, it's been around since the late 1940's. Another good powder is IMR-4350. A personal observation is that the bullet weight is a prime factor in what works. For bullets 55 grains or less H-335 is excelent over 55 grains H-4895 seems to work better. But you could also use IMR-8208 XBR, Varget or IMR 3031. Just an opinion Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

March 30, 2012, 06:26 PM	#17
bumnote Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 407	Buy a lb. of Varget to keep on hand for the calibers you don't have yet. When you buy another rifle in a different caliber and start loading for it, you'll already have powder that you can use for it. It's the one powder I have that will work on every rifle caliber I have. I love Benchmark for my 223 and 308 loads, meters like a dream and burns clean. __________________ "And remember, Abraham Lincoln didn't die in vain, he died in Washington D.C." - Firesign Theatre

March 30, 2012, 06:58 PM	#18
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	I do the same with Varget. Goes in every rifle I own. Once you find a pet load, it'll make a ragged hole. If not your bullet weight or type needs to be found and then you'll find a ragged hole with testing. Love the stuff!

March 31, 2012, 09:41 AM	#19
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	If you are using a progressive press, consider a ball powder like Alliant Power Pro 2000-MR. Folks have called it a ball version of Reloader 15, which is also a good choice for 223 and 308 with heavier bullets. In one of the recent issues of Handloader there was a goood article on Hogdon CFE, which looks like it would also suit your purposes. If you aren't using a progressive press, then it is hard to beat the decades of published data for the 4895 powders. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

March 31, 2012, 04:42 PM	#20
Rimfire5 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 922	Another very strong recommendation for H4895 for both the .308 and .223. I have loaded and measured Reloader 15, Varget, Vihta Vuori N150 and H335 as well as H4895. For my Savage 10FP (.308) and my CZ 527 (.223) their top 20 best hand loads are dominated by H4895 with a variety of bullets and weights. .223 - 15 of the top 20 handloads are H4895 including 50, 52, 55 and 63 grain bullets from Berger and Sierra. .308 - 17 of the top 20 hand loads are H4895 including both 150 and 168 grain bullets from Sierra, Hornady and Nosler. The top 10 best loads are even more biased toward H4895 .308 - 9 of the top 10 with an average group size of 0.499 for 91 groups at 100 yards. .223 - 8 of the top 10 with an average group size of 0.402 for 79 groups at 100 yards. After all that testing, I have pretty well focused on H4895 for those two rifles. It seems to fit your basic parameters - easy to meter, provides accurate loads with a variety of bullet weights and provides ample velocity in either rifle.

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