Soot in primer pocket , first firing ?

06shooter · January 13, 2016, 08:13 PM

First time fired cases from my 3006 using cci 200 primers and Imr 4350 have little soot in the primer pockets and a lot on others , is this a sign of inconsistency with ignition?

Longshot4 · January 13, 2016, 08:26 PM

Can you give us more info? What rifle? headloads or factory loads?
New brass? The more info the better.

06shooter · January 13, 2016, 09:02 PM

Longshot4, first time fired nosler brass
Cci 200 Imr 4350 53 gr to 57 gr increments
165 gr nos bt 20 thou jump weatherby van s2 3006.

Longshot4 · January 13, 2016, 09:30 PM

It sounds to me that you just fire formed the brass. How do you install the primers? Do you uniform your primer pockets. Do you recall the resistance wile seating the primers? Where did you get the load from and is that the primer that was recommended. Can you see whare the gas leak is coming from? Is it the primer edge or from the firing pin? Are you working up the loads 3 at a time? Are the primers flowing or cratering?

06shooter · January 13, 2016, 09:56 PM

I'm using Noslers data except for the primers. They use WLR.
I use lees hand prime
I seat them below flush to set the bridge.
No uniforming.
They go in just right.
No gas leaks.

I tried to up load a pic but the file was too big.

Longshot4 · January 13, 2016, 11:02 PM

The carbon at the primer sounds like a gas leak at the primer. That is common cause of high pressure. Since these are new cases and primers were feeling normal tension when seated. The pockets were good. I wonder if the flash holes are over size or larger than norm. I just had found some in my pistol cases. If the cases have oversize flash holes it seams the pressure may spike. How about since you mentioned 53.0-57.0gr. of powder that is the full min. to max. loads. Perhaps the gas leak or (soot) happened at or near max. Are you able to determine witch cases are witch loads? You may be seeing the start of over pressure loads. If you can determine where the loads started to soot you could back off from there a bit maybe a grain or two.

To continue with gas leaks at the primer could burn a hole in the bolt face.

06shooter · January 13, 2016, 11:13 PM

I'm asking about the carbon soot left inside the primer pockets.
I noticed after removing the primers , some pockets are dirtier than others.
Does that mean ignition is
weak when there is little deposit

Dufus · January 14, 2016, 12:16 AM

A good chronograph will answer your question regarding the weak primer.

The "soot" in the pockets is normal. That is why there are primer pocket cleaners on the market. If you have no residue in the pocket, then I would say that primer failed to fire. Granted, sometimes there is more deposits than others.

Jim243 · January 14, 2016, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Imr 4350 have little soot in the primer pockets and a lot on others

Fouling in the primer pocket's are normal. You do realize that when the firing pin hits the primer the primer backs out of the case to the bolt face and the case itself follows a fraction of a second later? The speed at which the case re-seats the primer is one of the ways to watch for over pressure. Either the primer will go back in normally or be flattened (over pressure).

The amount of fouling you are seeing in the primer pocket is more due to the type of powder used, if there is no gas leaks in the primer itself. If there were gas leaks from the primer you would see scoring (burn marks) on the bolt face itself. This happens most often from pierced primers by the firing pin or lose primers in a semi-auto rifle.

I personally like H-4895 for 30-06 it produces excellent results.

Sorry, but dirty primer pockets are a fact of life for re-loaders, that is why some use stainless steel pins and wet tumbling to clean them up. Me, I like dry media and don't care if the primer pocket's are dirty as long as the primers fit tight and snug where they should.

Stay safe.
Jim

06shooter · January 14, 2016, 08:20 AM

Yes , I realize all these things.
Thanks to all !

F. Guffey · January 14, 2016, 09:20 AM

Quote:

have little soot in the primer pockets and a lot on others

Soot on the case head would be a problem, if soot did not get past the primer the primer did all it was designed to do.

F. Guffey

cw308 · January 14, 2016, 04:00 PM

06Shooter, fouling in primer pocket is normal, if some are fouled more them others I feel its do to primers set at slightly different heights. Get your self a primer pocket uniformer it will cut your pockets to the same exact depth. You should feel your primer bottom out in pocket, better seal. When we look to produce the best in our reloads, everything should be exast even the primer pocket & flash hole. The gas didn't get past the primer, didn't flatten out from overpressure. You were fine, make sure you feel the primer bottom & clean out the flash hole. Be Safe, hope I helped.

06shooter · January 14, 2016, 05:19 PM

Thanks cw 308

January 13, 2016, 08:13 PM	#1
06shooter Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2015 Posts: 165	Soot in primer pocket , first firing ? First time fired cases from my 3006 using cci 200 primers and Imr 4350 have little soot in the primer pockets and a lot on others , is this a sign of inconsistency with ignition?

January 13, 2016, 09:02 PM	#3
06shooter Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2015 Posts: 165	Longshot4, first time fired nosler brass Cci 200 Imr 4350 53 gr to 57 gr increments 165 gr nos bt 20 thou jump weatherby van s2 3006. Last edited by 06shooter; January 13, 2016 at 09:21 PM.

January 13, 2016, 08:26 PM	#2
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2014 Posts: 868	Can you give us more info? What rifle? headloads or factory loads? New brass? The more info the better.

January 13, 2016, 09:30 PM	#4
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2014 Posts: 868	It sounds to me that you just fire formed the brass. How do you install the primers? Do you uniform your primer pockets. Do you recall the resistance wile seating the primers? Where did you get the load from and is that the primer that was recommended. Can you see whare the gas leak is coming from? Is it the primer edge or from the firing pin? Are you working up the loads 3 at a time? Are the primers flowing or cratering?

January 13, 2016, 09:56 PM	#5
06shooter Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2015 Posts: 165	I'm using Noslers data except for the primers. They use WLR. I use lees hand prime I seat them below flush to set the bridge. No uniforming. They go in just right. No gas leaks. I tried to up load a pic but the file was too big.

January 13, 2016, 11:02 PM	#6
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2014 Posts: 868	The carbon at the primer sounds like a gas leak at the primer. That is common cause of high pressure. Since these are new cases and primers were feeling normal tension when seated. The pockets were good. I wonder if the flash holes are over size or larger than norm. I just had found some in my pistol cases. If the cases have oversize flash holes it seams the pressure may spike. How about since you mentioned 53.0-57.0gr. of powder that is the full min. to max. loads. Perhaps the gas leak or (soot) happened at or near max. Are you able to determine witch cases are witch loads? You may be seeing the start of over pressure loads. If you can determine where the loads started to soot you could back off from there a bit maybe a grain or two. To continue with gas leaks at the primer could burn a hole in the bolt face.

January 13, 2016, 11:13 PM	#7
06shooter Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2015 Posts: 165	I'm asking about the carbon soot left inside the primer pockets. I noticed after removing the primers , some pockets are dirtier than others. Does that mean ignition is weak when there is little deposit

January 14, 2016, 12:16 AM	#8
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	A good chronograph will answer your question regarding the weak primer. The "soot" in the pockets is normal. That is why there are primer pocket cleaners on the market. If you have no residue in the pocket, then I would say that primer failed to fire. Granted, sometimes there is more deposits than others.

January 14, 2016, 08:20 AM	#10
06shooter Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2015 Posts: 165	Yes , I realize all these things. Thanks to all !

January 14, 2016, 04:00 PM	#12
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	06Shooter, fouling in primer pocket is normal, if some are fouled more them others I feel its do to primers set at slightly different heights. Get your self a primer pocket uniformer it will cut your pockets to the same exact depth. You should feel your primer bottom out in pocket, better seal. When we look to produce the best in our reloads, everything should be exast even the primer pocket & flash hole. The gas didn't get past the primer, didn't flatten out from overpressure. You were fine, make sure you feel the primer bottom & clean out the flash hole. Be Safe, hope I helped.

January 14, 2016, 05:19 PM	#13
06shooter Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2015 Posts: 165	Thanks cw 308