Reusing .40S&W Cases - What's good what's not

SeamusG · May 19, 2011, 08:47 PM

I am pretty inexperienced with reloading. Did some (about 2000 rounds) about 10 years ago with guidance of a friend that is an expert (military really long shot kinda guy). Used his Dillion XL650. He talked and drank beer - I listened and did what he said. He's not available for input - soooooo ...

I have a large number of mixed used brass (brass & nickle). I cleaned them up in a vibrating case cleaner. Then I tried to sort them out. Some (group 1) will drop smoothly and release easily from a sizing die (a Dillion bit). Some (2) need just a bit of finger persuasion to seat and remove them from the die. Some (3) are kinda pouched out near the base and will slide in but stop with less than 1/4" still showing outside of the die. Some (4) are pretty pouched out and will slide in but stop with about 1/2" still showing. Of course - some were beat and got pitched.

I'm not clear how many sins the resizing die will cure. Groups 1 & 2 for sure. What about about 3 & 4? These will be practice rounds.

Btw - I (will) shoot a Para P16. Specs used for the 1st set of loads were: 4.9g W231, 180 Star JHP, WSP, OAL - 1.170, cases mixed bag. Result was a bit above 950 fps at 6000'.

Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

Huskerguy · May 19, 2011, 09:27 PM

I had the same problem. Purchased a few thousand and FL resized and loaded them only to find a few would not go all the way in the chamber. I did some reading and decided the ones I could not resize were shot with a Glock. Lee makes a bulge buster die that will apparently solve the problem. Kind of hate to buy the die for a few dozen cases. Now I drop each 40 in a case gauge or as someone will point out you you can take the barrel off of your 40 and do it that way. Good luck

SeamusG · May 19, 2011, 10:06 PM

HG - gotta change a term that I used in my 1st post. I used a case gauge (not a size die) to check the condition of the unsized cases.

I pulled my gun apart and checked all of my remaining 1000 rounds by dropping them into the barrel's chamber - 3 or 4 needed to be pulled apart and tossed because they wouldn't seat far enough.

Something else that I noticed. The dimension of a finished round at the crimp is .418" while in the middle of the bullet the dimension is .424". The case thickness is .011/.012. Seems that when we loaded the original batch we crimped the heck out of it. The bullets, when dropped into the barrel, seem to stick even though the back of the case is below flush.

Enquiring minds are just plain dangerous ...

CherokeeT · May 20, 2011, 07:35 AM

Crimp should be about .422-.423, only enough to remove the bell put on the mouth for seating. Over crimping can bulge the case.

NWPilgrim · May 20, 2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Crimp should be about .422-.423, only enough to remove the bell put on the mouth for seating. Over crimping can bulge the case.

+1 Straightwall pistol cartridges such as the .40S&W headspace on the case mouth. If you look into the barrel chamber you will see a slight ledge where the case mouth will butt up against. If you crimp the case mouth too much it will slide past the chamber ledge and you may not get a solid strike by the firing pin. Plus this may also cause pressures to increase dramatically since now the bullet is being forced through a constriction beyond the normal case chamber.

SeamusG · May 20, 2011, 01:17 PM

"If you look into the barrel chamber you will see a slight ledge where the case mouth will butt up against. If you crimp the case mouth too much it will slide past the chamber ledge and you may not get a solid strike by the firing pin.

Plus this may also cause pressures to increase dramatically since now the bullet is being forced through a constriction beyond the normal case chamber."

I understand. How can I determine if the pressures have increased dramatically?

Getting off topic for sure - still don't know whether I should use the cases that won't fit inside the case gauge. Is it recommended to "resize 'em all and inspect 'em afterwards to check 'em for problems?".

BigJimP · May 20, 2011, 01:33 PM

I would resize them first --- and then check them with a case gague. There isn't much point in checking them first.

I use Dillon dies / and I have very few rejects ---even though I pick up a variety of brass off the concrete floors at my local range. After I clean the cases - if there is big dent / I just toss them out .../ but good carbide dies will be able to resize pretty effectively.

If you gun is a fully supported chamber / and I don't know if that model is or not ...and you're not loading them past mid-range velocities / I think you're probably just fine. But I always use a case gague when I'm done ..as my last step / prior to boxing them up ....and as you know, if they don't drop in easily and out easily - I reject them / and pull the bullets and recycle the components and dump the rejected cases.

paulcissa · May 20, 2011, 01:33 PM

Seamus,

The group 3 & 4 cases sound like they've been shot through unsupported chambers. Several makes (Glock included) don't completely support the case in the chamber allowing for smoother return to battery and a more compact action. Check this article.

Years ago, I had an acquaintance who did firearms instruction at a regional PD facility and dropped off about 5K mixed once-fired cases for me in 40S&W. So many of them were bulged that it appeared useless and I was ready to scrap the lot rather than sort them for a few hundred usable. The same acquaintance gave me a resource not too far from me that had a roll-sizer. I drove out, paid the shop 20 bucks and had the whole lot roll-sized back to spec in about an hour.

I haven't purchased 40 S&W cases since. Still have about 1/2 of that lot left.

Good luck!

SeamusG · May 20, 2011, 02:47 PM

Hey Paul - good idea on finding someone with a roll size.

BTW - got a "not found" on the link to the article. Did a search and found a forum thread - including a link to a youtube kaboom. My 1st thought is that the open area at 6 o'clock was to enhance loading into the chamber.

NWPilgrim · May 20, 2011, 03:08 PM

Quote:

I understand. How can I determine if the pressures have increased dramatically?

Pistol cartridges are a bit harder to safely look for pressure signs since many of the brass deformation signs only happen at rifle pressures. You can look for sharper than normal recoil, measure velocity with a chronograph to look for velocity above expected for that charge, primers that have firing pin scrapes, etc. Unfortunately all that involves shooting the suspect cartridges.

Personally I would consider over crimped pistol cases as generally unsafe and pull all those bullets, remove the powder, bell the case mouth, recharge the powder, seat the bullet and taper crimp just enough to remove the case mouth bell.

moxie · May 20, 2011, 03:36 PM

Seamus,

I assume that when you refer to a "case gauge" you are really talking about a "max cartridge gauge." These are for determining the ability of a COMPLETED round to chamber easily. (Or you can use the barrel itself. Drop the completed round in the chamber and see if it does so easily. This is called the "plunk test.") The gauge simulates the barrel's chamber. Usually (not always), if a completed round will freely go into and fall out of a max cartridge gauge, it will also do so with an actual barrel.

There is no point in doing this to an empty case, either before or after sizing!

There is such a thing as a max length gauge, but I don't think that's what you are referring to. It's not germane here.

SeamusG · May 20, 2011, 04:14 PM

Moxie - I have a Dillon Handgun Case Gage. Just read Dillon's part description - check that ammunition fits a minimum sized chamber. If I had read the darn description rather than the part name I would have (at least I HOPE that I would have) figured out that it was to test ammunition and NOT empty cases.

Learning is a good thing ...

Thx for the feedback!

Huskerguy · May 20, 2011, 05:32 PM

Moxie - I may be confused, happens often - but I use a "cartridge gauge" after I resize my 40 brass and before I load them. This helps me eliminate the bulged ones before I reload. There are some that just bind up a small amount and some that stick badly and I can't tell just by looking. While it does also work fully loaded, I find it useful for my brass after sizing and before loading.

May 19, 2011, 08:47 PM	#1
SeamusG Junior Member Join Date: May 19, 2011 Posts: 5	Reusing .40S&W Cases - What's good what's not I am pretty inexperienced with reloading. Did some (about 2000 rounds) about 10 years ago with guidance of a friend that is an expert (military really long shot kinda guy). Used his Dillion XL650. He talked and drank beer - I listened and did what he said. He's not available for input - soooooo ... I have a large number of mixed used brass (brass & nickle). I cleaned them up in a vibrating case cleaner. Then I tried to sort them out. Some (group 1) will drop smoothly and release easily from a sizing die (a Dillion bit). Some (2) need just a bit of finger persuasion to seat and remove them from the die. Some (3) are kinda pouched out near the base and will slide in but stop with less than 1/4" still showing outside of the die. Some (4) are pretty pouched out and will slide in but stop with about 1/2" still showing. Of course - some were beat and got pitched. I'm not clear how many sins the resizing die will cure. Groups 1 & 2 for sure. What about about 3 & 4? These will be practice rounds. Btw - I (will) shoot a Para P16. Specs used for the 1st set of loads were: 4.9g W231, 180 Star JHP, WSP, OAL - 1.170, cases mixed bag. Result was a bit above 950 fps at 6000'. Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

May 19, 2011, 09:27 PM	#2
Huskerguy Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 348	No expert but I had the same problem. Purchased a few thousand and FL resized and loaded them only to find a few would not go all the way in the chamber. I did some reading and decided the ones I could not resize were shot with a Glock. Lee makes a bulge buster die that will apparently solve the problem. Kind of hate to buy the die for a few dozen cases. Now I drop each 40 in a case gauge or as someone will point out you you can take the barrel off of your 40 and do it that way. Good luck Last edited by Huskerguy; May 19, 2011 at 10:24 PM.

May 20, 2011, 07:35 AM	#4
CherokeeT Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2008 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 273	Crimp should be about .422-.423, only enough to remove the bell put on the mouth for seating. Over crimping can bulge the case. __________________ God Bless America US Army, NRA Endowment TSRA Life, SASS

May 20, 2011, 02:47 PM	#9
SeamusG Junior Member Join Date: May 19, 2011 Posts: 5	Hey Paul - good idea on finding someone with a roll size. BTW - got a "not found" on the link to the article. Did a search and found a forum thread - including a link to a youtube kaboom. My 1st thought is that the open area at 6 o'clock was to enhance loading into the chamber. Last edited by SeamusG; May 20, 2011 at 03:07 PM.

May 20, 2011, 03:36 PM	#11
moxie Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: TX Posts: 513	Seamus, I assume that when you refer to a "case gauge" you are really talking about a "max cartridge gauge." These are for determining the ability of a COMPLETED round to chamber easily. (Or you can use the barrel itself. Drop the completed round in the chamber and see if it does so easily. This is called the "plunk test.") The gauge simulates the barrel's chamber. Usually (not always), if a completed round will freely go into and fall out of a max cartridge gauge, it will also do so with an actual barrel. There is no point in doing this to an empty case, either before or after sizing! There is such a thing as a max length gauge, but I don't think that's what you are referring to. It's not germane here. __________________ If you want to shoot...shoot...don't talk! Tuco USAF Munitions 1969-1992 RVN 1972-1973

May 19, 2011, 10:06 PM	#3
SeamusG Junior Member Join Date: May 19, 2011 Posts: 5	HG - gotta change a term that I used in my 1st post. I used a case gauge (not a size die) to check the condition of the unsized cases. I pulled my gun apart and checked all of my remaining 1000 rounds by dropping them into the barrel's chamber - 3 or 4 needed to be pulled apart and tossed because they wouldn't seat far enough. Something else that I noticed. The dimension of a finished round at the crimp is .418" while in the middle of the bullet the dimension is .424". The case thickness is .011/.012. Seems that when we loaded the original batch we crimped the heck out of it. The bullets, when dropped into the barrel, seem to stick even though the back of the case is below flush. Enquiring minds are just plain dangerous ...

May 20, 2011, 01:17 PM	#6
SeamusG Junior Member Join Date: May 19, 2011 Posts: 5	"If you look into the barrel chamber you will see a slight ledge where the case mouth will butt up against. If you crimp the case mouth too much it will slide past the chamber ledge and you may not get a solid strike by the firing pin. Plus this may also cause pressures to increase dramatically since now the bullet is being forced through a constriction beyond the normal case chamber." I understand. How can I determine if the pressures have increased dramatically? Getting off topic for sure - still don't know whether I should use the cases that won't fit inside the case gauge. Is it recommended to "resize 'em all and inspect 'em afterwards to check 'em for problems?".

May 20, 2011, 01:33 PM	#7
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I would resize them first --- and then check them with a case gague. There isn't much point in checking them first. I use Dillon dies / and I have very few rejects ---even though I pick up a variety of brass off the concrete floors at my local range. After I clean the cases - if there is big dent / I just toss them out .../ but good carbide dies will be able to resize pretty effectively. If you gun is a fully supported chamber / and I don't know if that model is or not ...and you're not loading them past mid-range velocities / I think you're probably just fine. But I always use a case gague when I'm done ..as my last step / prior to boxing them up ....and as you know, if they don't drop in easily and out easily - I reject them / and pull the bullets and recycle the components and dump the rejected cases.

May 20, 2011, 01:33 PM	#8
paulcissa Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Posts: 33	Seamus, The group 3 & 4 cases sound like they've been shot through unsupported chambers. Several makes (Glock included) don't completely support the case in the chamber allowing for smoother return to battery and a more compact action. Check this article. Years ago, I had an acquaintance who did firearms instruction at a regional PD facility and dropped off about 5K mixed once-fired cases for me in 40S&W. So many of them were bulged that it appeared useless and I was ready to scrap the lot rather than sort them for a few hundred usable. The same acquaintance gave me a resource not too far from me that had a roll-sizer. I drove out, paid the shop 20 bucks and had the whole lot roll-sized back to spec in about an hour. I haven't purchased 40 S&W cases since. Still have about 1/2 of that lot left. Good luck!

May 20, 2011, 04:14 PM	#12
SeamusG Junior Member Join Date: May 19, 2011 Posts: 5	Moxie - I have a Dillon Handgun Case Gage. Just read Dillon's part description - check that ammunition fits a minimum sized chamber. If I had read the darn description rather than the part name I would have (at least I HOPE that I would have) figured out that it was to test ammunition and NOT empty cases. Learning is a good thing ... Thx for the feedback!

May 20, 2011, 05:32 PM	#13
Huskerguy Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 348	Moxie - I may be confused, happens often - but I use a "cartridge gauge" after I resize my 40 brass and before I load them. This helps me eliminate the bulged ones before I reload. There are some that just bind up a small amount and some that stick badly and I can't tell just by looking. While it does also work fully loaded, I find it useful for my brass after sizing and before loading.