Substituting Primers -

John McHenry · April 21, 2009, 08:04 PM

In this day and age of limited supply, I've been told (by someone I think of as credible) that I can substitute small pistol magnum primers for small rifle standard primers. This would be for reloading for 223 Remington using 50 grain Hornady V-Max. I'm not a complete novice, but I'm not an old pro either, so I'd appreciate some advice from those who know.

Thanks

tyrajam · April 21, 2009, 08:52 PM

I have used them trying to tune a load for a finicky 22 k-hornet, and while it didn't help, it didn't hurt. They worked in the little hornet case, but I'll also like to hear from others for the same load. I have about 500 more 50gr v-max Ineed to load up for my June prarie dog shooting and I used up all my small rifle primers and STILL can't find any more.

**Unclenick** · April 21, 2009, 09:08 PM

Not at all healthy in the .223. The primer cups are too thin for rifle pressures. Even a Remington 6 1/2 isn't strong enough, and its a rifle primer. I saw some photos somewhere on line of boltfaces totally eroded around the firing pin tunnel from using 6 1/2's. The pressure escapes around the edge of the thin primer and gas cuts the bolt face in that pattern. Pistol primers will do that too. A .22 Hornet might let you get away with it.

kbuck · April 21, 2009, 09:16 PM

unclenick:
would the reverse be true then? small rifle primers okay in a pistol round?

Ruger4570 · April 21, 2009, 09:32 PM

If primers were meant to interchange, we would have only 2 sizes, small and large. There wouldn't be a reason to have various for rifles and pistols. I will stop shooting for a while long before I use a pistol primer in a rifle case. I just happen to like my eyes the way they are.

Teuthis · April 21, 2009, 09:59 PM

What your are considering, and someone is actually doing, is dangerous. If you want to keep your eyes, fingers and brain, follow the manuals; and do not substitute components. You are dealing with explosives, not ordering in a Chinese restaurant. Aside from becoming an evolutionary dead end, you could harm some innocent by-stander at the range.

James R. Burke · April 22, 2009, 03:23 PM

Dont do it. I know it is very hard to get what you need, but use what the manual calls for. If that would work they would all be the same. Stick to what should be used and keep it safe!

tyrajam · April 22, 2009, 09:01 PM

Just so you know, I am NOT substituting componants. I would never just try using a random load to see what happens. There are many recipes that call for sp primers in 22 hornet loads, especially since i was using lil'gun, a pistol powder. Have fun, but be safe!

HiBC · April 23, 2009, 01:48 AM

The shortages have generated a lot of questions about substitutions.

General rule,use exactly the components in the book.Shortages do not rationally give a reason to sidestep the right way to make safe reloads.We just have to be patient.

What is a real waste of scarce components is loading up a bunch of something that does not work.

For everyone who has pistol primers,that wants rifle primers,there is another fellow who has rifle primers and needs pistol primers..Get together.

Please understand,the cartridge case,and the primer are all thtt stand between your eye and 55,000 psi of hot gas.

Pistols work in the 30,000 range,and often have lighter hammer strikes.The primer cups are thinner and softer.Handguns like the .454 casull (higher pressure) use rifle primers.

So,envision where your eye is when a primer is pierced,think about it.

This reloading stuff is a bit like aviation or skydiving or mountainclimbing.Some things just have to be right.

**Unclenick** · April 23, 2009, 05:24 PM

Kbuk,

There are just two issues with subbing SR for SP. One is more fuel in the rifle primers so, like a magnum primer, you want to knock your load down a bit before trying it.

Second, does the firing mechanism on your handgun have enough strength to set them off reliably? Often, they don't.

One potential intermediate solution is the Remington 6 1/2 primer. It says on the box not to try to use it the .223 and other full pressure rounds. It is just meant for the Hornet and other low pressure rounds. The cup is thinner for some of the old single-shot actions that don't have as much firing pin power. This may make it more suitable to try as a pistol primer than would be a 7 1/2 or other brands of SR primers? I haven't tried it myself, so this is not a recommendation; just an observed possibility.

April 21, 2009, 08:04 PM	#1
John McHenry Junior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: Cortez, Colorado Posts: 11	Substituting Primers - In this day and age of limited supply, I've been told (by someone I think of as credible) that I can substitute small pistol magnum primers for small rifle standard primers. This would be for reloading for 223 Remington using 50 grain Hornady V-Max. I'm not a complete novice, but I'm not an old pro either, so I'd appreciate some advice from those who know. Thanks

April 21, 2009, 09:08 PM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Not at all healthy in the .223. The primer cups are too thin for rifle pressures. Even a Remington 6 1/2 isn't strong enough, and its a rifle primer. I saw some photos somewhere on line of boltfaces totally eroded around the firing pin tunnel from using 6 1/2's. The pressure escapes around the edge of the thin primer and gas cuts the bolt face in that pattern. Pistol primers will do that too. A .22 Hornet might let you get away with it. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 21, 2009, 09:59 PM	#6
Teuthis Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2008 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 537	What your are considering, and someone is actually doing, is dangerous. If you want to keep your eyes, fingers and brain, follow the manuals; and do not substitute components. You are dealing with explosives, not ordering in a Chinese restaurant. Aside from becoming an evolutionary dead end, you could harm some innocent by-stander at the range. __________________ Oderint dum Metuant

April 23, 2009, 05:24 PM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Kbuk, There are just two issues with subbing SR for SP. One is more fuel in the rifle primers so, like a magnum primer, you want to knock your load down a bit before trying it. Second, does the firing mechanism on your handgun have enough strength to set them off reliably? Often, they don't. One potential intermediate solution is the Remington 6 1/2 primer. It says on the box not to try to use it the .223 and other full pressure rounds. It is just meant for the Hornet and other low pressure rounds. The cup is thinner for some of the old single-shot actions that don't have as much firing pin power. This may make it more suitable to try as a pistol primer than would be a 7 1/2 or other brands of SR primers? I haven't tried it myself, so this is not a recommendation; just an observed possibility. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 21, 2009, 08:52 PM	#2
tyrajam Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2007 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 467	I have used them trying to tune a load for a finicky 22 k-hornet, and while it didn't help, it didn't hurt. They worked in the little hornet case, but I'll also like to hear from others for the same load. I have about 500 more 50gr v-max Ineed to load up for my June prarie dog shooting and I used up all my small rifle primers and STILL can't find any more.

April 21, 2009, 09:16 PM	#4
kbuck Member Join Date: September 30, 2008 Location: West central Alabama Posts: 36	unclenick: would the reverse be true then? small rifle primers okay in a pistol round?

April 21, 2009, 09:32 PM	#5
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	If primers were meant to interchange, we would have only 2 sizes, small and large. There wouldn't be a reason to have various for rifles and pistols. I will stop shooting for a while long before I use a pistol primer in a rifle case. I just happen to like my eyes the way they are.

April 22, 2009, 03:23 PM	#7
James R. Burke Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Location: U.P. of Mich/Quinnesec Posts: 1,897	Dont do it. I know it is very hard to get what you need, but use what the manual calls for. If that would work they would all be the same. Stick to what should be used and keep it safe!

April 22, 2009, 09:01 PM	#8
tyrajam Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2007 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 467	Just so you know, I am NOT substituting componants. I would never just try using a random load to see what happens. There are many recipes that call for sp primers in 22 hornet loads, especially since i was using lil'gun, a pistol powder. Have fun, but be safe!

April 23, 2009, 01:48 AM	#9
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	The shortages have generated a lot of questions about substitutions. General rule,use exactly the components in the book.Shortages do not rationally give a reason to sidestep the right way to make safe reloads.We just have to be patient. What is a real waste of scarce components is loading up a bunch of something that does not work. For everyone who has pistol primers,that wants rifle primers,there is another fellow who has rifle primers and needs pistol primers..Get together. Please understand,the cartridge case,and the primer are all thtt stand between your eye and 55,000 psi of hot gas. Pistols work in the 30,000 range,and often have lighter hammer strikes.The primer cups are thinner and softer.Handguns like the .454 casull (higher pressure) use rifle primers. So,envision where your eye is when a primer is pierced,think about it. This reloading stuff is a bit like aviation or skydiving or mountainclimbing.Some things just have to be right.