Snubnosed accuracy

awaveritt · January 4, 2009, 09:36 PM

What kind of accuracy do you get with your snubbies. My new S&W 638 seems to shoot to point of aim and has a great SA/DA trigger but so far have only done some informal plinking with it. I can't wait to get to a range and do some serious target work. Meanwhile, I'd be interested in your best results with your snubbies.

**Unclenick** · January 4, 2009, 09:52 PM

I've never had very good luck with them. One of the problems with them is the barrel ends too near the pressure peak for the powder to burn as consistently as it does even in a three inch barrel. I've seen a couple guys post trying to work up loads and getting velocity variation of 25%.

It is also true that I have no clue whether the ones I've tried over the years were better or worse than average samples? It's only been maybe three. If their cylinders were reamed and checked for timing and alignment and cylinder end play removed and loads with a very fast powder that didn't care about the barrel length were made up, I don't know what their limit would be? I see no mechanical reason for it to be especially bad. Lead bullets might have some extra trouble with muzzle blast acting on their bases, being so near the pressure peak at exit, but jacketed bullets should be fairly immune.

The other thing is just my eyes, I'm sure. The short sight radius is hard for me to work with. All that said, staying on a paper plate at social distance (7 yards) is perfectly reasonable to expect. It's what they were intended for.

Snobal · January 4, 2009, 11:21 PM

awaveritt -

When I bought my S&W 638 last spring, it came with a "Smith & Wesson Safety & Instruction Manual," for their "Revolvers, Modern Style."

On the bottom of page 35 of the manual is a certification that states:
_____________________________________________________________
Smith & Wesson Corp. hereby certifies average accuracy test results for all new handguns with a barrel shorter than 3" as follows:

7 yards 1.7"
14 yards 3.9"
21 yards 6.3"

_____________________________________________________________

My experience while working up light target loads for this gun (I don't want to loosen it from excessive loads) is that 10- and 15-shot groups of around 2" C-T-C, at a measured 10 yards (30') are common when shooting two handed, single action from a sandbag rest.

I seldom shoot this gun past 10 yards, but at 25 yards - it will normally group on a paper plate - somewhere around 6" C-T-C (again, this is two-handed, single-action, from a sandbag rest).

BTW, my 638 shoots to POA at 30 feet with 125 grain bullets. I've been having very good results with copper plated 125 grain bullets and Bullseye powder.

JackL · January 5, 2009, 12:36 AM

Do K-frames count for the purposes of this question? If so, I like mine well enough. Here's a target shot with a series of fast double-taps at 30 feet with standard pressure 158-grain SWCs out of my 1949 M&P. And when I say "fast", I mean squeezing off the second shot as soon as I could line up the front sight on target coming out of recoil.

Not a target piece, but I'm confident in my ability to hit with it.

It's pretty obvious which groups shots were the first in each double-tap. Some of the second shots were pretty awful, but I'm getting better at that.

Oh, and the two low ones were deliberate.

arizona98tj · January 5, 2009, 01:10 AM

Quote:

I've never had very good luck with them. One of the problems with them is the barrel ends too near the pressure peak for the powder to burn as consistently as it does even in a three inch barrel. I've seen a couple guys post trying to work up loads and getting velocity variation of 25%.

Hmmm.....the testing I did with my S&W 637 2" didn't end with the poor results you found.

I opted to use some off the shelf 38 special loads, namely 130 gr. WWB from the nearby Walmart as well as some light target loads from my reloading bench

I used my Ruger 4" Security Six and my S&W 637 2" Airweight for the comparison. Both were shot over a PACT chronograph for a velocity check.

Ruger & 130 gr. WWB:
Avg. velocity = 848 FPS
Std. deviation = 22.8 FPS

S&W & 130 gr. WWB:
Avg. velocity = 792 FPS
Std. deviation = 10.0 FPS

Ruger & 148 gr. wadcutter reloads:
Avg. velocity = 781 FPS
Std. deviation = 41.6 FPS

S&W & 148 gr. wadcutter reloads:
Avg. velocity = 701 FPS
Std. deviation = 29.8 FPS

As expected, the 2" barreled 637 had lower velocities. However, they were not as bad as some may have you believe, IMHO. I also found it interesting in that the 637 yielded a more consitent velocity in both loadings.

chriske · January 5, 2009, 08:36 AM

About 4 to 4 1/2" 10 round-groups (2 cylinders) from a S&W 2" 640 at 15 meters, on a good day.
Hope to become better with the 2" mod 15 I'm planning to buy next .Apart from the better sights & grips, I'll be able to shoot it SA..

January 4, 2009, 09:36 PM	#1
awaveritt Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2008 Location: Central Texas Posts: 259	Snubnosed accuracy What kind of accuracy do you get with your snubbies. My new S&W 638 seems to shoot to point of aim and has a great SA/DA trigger but so far have only done some informal plinking with it. I can't wait to get to a range and do some serious target work. Meanwhile, I'd be interested in your best results with your snubbies.

January 4, 2009, 09:52 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	I've never had very good luck with them. One of the problems with them is the barrel ends too near the pressure peak for the powder to burn as consistently as it does even in a three inch barrel. I've seen a couple guys post trying to work up loads and getting velocity variation of 25%. It is also true that I have no clue whether the ones I've tried over the years were better or worse than average samples? It's only been maybe three. If their cylinders were reamed and checked for timing and alignment and cylinder end play removed and loads with a very fast powder that didn't care about the barrel length were made up, I don't know what their limit would be? I see no mechanical reason for it to be especially bad. Lead bullets might have some extra trouble with muzzle blast acting on their bases, being so near the pressure peak at exit, but jacketed bullets should be fairly immune. The other thing is just my eyes, I'm sure. The short sight radius is hard for me to work with. All that said, staying on a paper plate at social distance (7 yards) is perfectly reasonable to expect. It's what they were intended for. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 5, 2009, 12:36 AM	#4
JackL Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2008 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 187	Do K-frames count for the purposes of this question? If so, I like mine well enough. Here's a target shot with a series of fast double-taps at 30 feet with standard pressure 158-grain SWCs out of my 1949 M&P. And when I say "fast", I mean squeezing off the second shot as soon as I could line up the front sight on target coming out of recoil. Not a target piece, but I'm confident in my ability to hit with it. It's pretty obvious which groups shots were the first in each double-tap. Some of the second shots were pretty awful, but I'm getting better at that. Oh, and the two low ones were deliberate. Last edited by JackL; January 5, 2009 at 12:40 AM. Reason: Fix image link coding (I think)

January 4, 2009, 11:21 PM	#3
Snobal Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2009 Location: Arizona Wilderness Posts: 121	awaveritt - When I bought my S&W 638 last spring, it came with a "Smith & Wesson Safety & Instruction Manual," for their "Revolvers, Modern Style." On the bottom of page 35 of the manual is a certification that states: _____________________________________________________________ Smith & Wesson Corp. hereby certifies average accuracy test results for all new handguns with a barrel shorter than 3" as follows: 7 yards 1.7" 14 yards 3.9" 21 yards 6.3" _____________________________________________________________ My experience while working up light target loads for this gun (I don't want to loosen it from excessive loads) is that 10- and 15-shot groups of around 2" C-T-C, at a measured 10 yards (30') are common when shooting two handed, single action from a sandbag rest. I seldom shoot this gun past 10 yards, but at 25 yards - it will normally group on a paper plate - somewhere around 6" C-T-C (again, this is two-handed, single-action, from a sandbag rest). BTW, my 638 shoots to POA at 30 feet with 125 grain bullets. I've been having very good results with copper plated 125 grain bullets and Bullseye powder.

January 5, 2009, 08:36 AM	#6
chriske Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Location: Belgium Posts: 176	About 4 to 4 1/2" 10 round-groups (2 cylinders) from a S&W 2" 640 at 15 meters, on a good day. Hope to become better with the 2" mod 15 I'm planning to buy next .Apart from the better sights & grips, I'll be able to shoot it SA..