Wheel Weights

jtravisbayne · December 31, 2008, 09:28 AM

The other day, my father was at Sam's and casually asked one of the tire guys what they did with their scrap wheel weights. The guy told him that they are required to recycle them due to environmental regulations and if they gave them away or sold them to someone other than a recycler, they could be fined somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,000. Not ready to accept legal interpretations from Smitty the tire guy just yet, but thought I'd see if anyone else had run into this. We're in upstate, SC by the way. I'm going to ask some other tire shops to see if I get the same song and dance.

If this is the case, it really makes no sense to me. Lead is not good to have in one's body, but last time I checked, the only way to get lead in one's bloodstream is to 1) inhale lead dust via the lungs

; 2) ingest lead via the mouth:barf:; 3) be penetrated by lead via a lead projectile

. So unless someone has a gigantic nose big enough to snort a wheel weight, likes to gnaw on wheel weights or there's a wheel weight firing pistol I don't know about, I'd say scrap wheel weights are fairly safe.

GoldenRoyBoy · December 31, 2008, 10:21 AM

Yes, Walmart here is Trinidad, CO sings the same song; dances the same dance! Yet, I can drive north, getting all they have!

(hint) If you fan a $10 bill, as you ask you are more apt to be rewarded.
And, speak soft; to only one guy at a time.

GRB

cgaengineer · December 31, 2008, 11:03 AM

The stores around here give them away. That being said, lead can also be absorbed into your skin just from contact.

jtravisbayne · December 31, 2008, 11:12 AM

Can't refute your absorbtion in the skin argument, but my experience with lead is from the EPA's Protect Your Family From Lead In Your Home brochure. I've got a few rental properties that were built back in the 40's, 50's and 60's and I'm required to give this brochure to all new tenants. The EPA doesn't list skin absorbtion as a means by which lead can enter the body in their brochure. They specifically state that lead can get into a persons body if they:

1) Breathe lead dust
2) Put their hands or other objects covered in lead dust in their mouths
3) Eat paint chips or soil that contains lead

But just to be on the safe side, I'll stop wearing my lead Speedo.

cgaengineer · December 31, 2008, 11:53 AM

And we all know the EPA is very much on the safe side. My parents used to play with mercury as kids...my grandfather had a tub of it for some reason?

EPA blows poisoning way out of proportion...I think its just a way to create more jobs.

kyle663 · December 31, 2008, 12:05 PM

the walmart here in illinois told me something similar but i went a 1/2 mile down the road to a local tire store and they sold me a 5 gallon bucket that took 2 guys to hump into my truck for 25 bucks. i thinks its just wally world cya deal.

TheNatureBoy · December 31, 2008, 12:14 PM

What does this have to do with firearms. Did I miss something?

jtravisbayne · December 31, 2008, 12:22 PM

I was trying to find out if this wheel weight "law" was an actual law or a Wal-Mart policy. I'd like to get a cheap source of lead and if there was something new regarding disposal of wheel weights, I wanted to check to see if anyone had the scoop on it.

We kind of got off on a tangent of how lead gets absorbed in the body. My apolgies. I'll try to do better about staying on subject.

zxcvbob · December 31, 2008, 12:26 PM

Quote:

What does this have to do with firearms. Did I miss something?

Lead wheel weights are just about the perfect alloy for casting most bullets (a little more tin helps if you're casting small calibers.) If you quench them in water, you can even get them hard enough for rifle bullets. Air cool them, and they are good for most pistol cartridges.

Back to the original discussion, Exide (or maybe it's Champion) batteries has an exclusive contract with *all* the tire shops around here for all their scrap lead. I have about 150 pounds of WW lead, but I get most of my scrap lead now from the pistol range because I can't get any more WW's except what I pick up in the parking lots near the tire shops.

crowbeaner · December 31, 2008, 01:53 PM

I got the same lame Wally World answer when I asked the guy at the local store. I'm going to start hitting tire shops around here. I don't need many; 300 lbs. would be plenty.

**Unclenick** · December 31, 2008, 03:40 PM

The government says wheel weights have to be lead-free by sometime in 2011, so start stocking up now.

Lead metal cannot be absorbed through the skin, nor even can inorganic compounds of lead, even though the latter would pose a problem if ingested. Skin absorption is really limited to organic compounds, like the tetraethyl lead that used to be in gasoline. Indeed, metallic lead is not all that easily absorbed by ingestion or exposure to other body fluids. Many a civil war vet lived a long life carrying a lead bullet or part of one in his body. "Lead fumes" are mostly lead oxide from reacting with air and lead oxide (lead paint pigment) is a compound that body acids can break down to absorb the lead into the blood and fats for storage.

If you search this forum or the Shooters Forum on lead poisoning you'll find lots of casters and others who've had their blood tested and have no high lead levels. From that I take it that regular exposure is needed for adults to suffer a problem (you do sweat it out over time). Take the basic precaution of having some flow-through air ventilation going on and you will be fine. If you start a bullet casting business, that means a lot more exposure and more care with ventilation is required. Hobbyists are not usually at it for nearly as many hours out of the year.

I would not cast in an area accessible to pregnant women, small children or pets. Even then, primer residue and its dust in tumbling media from cleaning cases is the bigger threat, I believe. That dust includes carbonates of lead that are readily reactive with acids, are at least partly water soluble, and it wafts and falls were children and pets can pick it up for ultimate transferal to the child's hands by direct contact or by petting the pet. From there to mouth.

The wheel weight policy of the big box stores is probably partly due to regulations being different for a large organization than for a small one. It is undoubtedly also due to their lawyers realizing that money hungry teams of litigating attorneys monitor their every move, studiously searching any hint of an opportunity to sue. That's what happens when you develop deep pockets. It happened the company a friend of mine works for. Out of town lawyers came in and convinced a jury 50 year-old pre-EPA rule ground waste had caused children to get brain tumors. The jury didn't care there was no scientific proof of that. The lawyers just have to succeed in manipulating the beliefs of a simple majority of the jurors in civil court; they don't need the unanimous jury criminal court requires. It caused the company to close a plant and 200 jobs to be lost permanently. But the lawyers got their fraudulently (in my view) obtained money, so I guess that makes it OK. Bottom line: the big box stores with their deep pockets are probably wise to be concerned and to enforce their policy.

KUHIO · December 31, 2008, 03:54 PM

I work in a tire shop in NV. Never heard of such regs. I'm swimming in these things. We used to just toss them out until I made every one save them

cchardwick · December 31, 2008, 07:02 PM

About two years ago I went from tire shop to tire shop here in Denver and almost all of them said NO. They had a recycle place come and pick them up. But I did find a couple shops and eventually got a five gallon bucket full. I also recycled some scrap aluminum and found that the recycle place actually sold lead so I picked up about 300 pounds of soft lead, not wheel weights, for my muzzle loading adventures. I think it was about ten cents a pound or so. I'm in the process of making a steel backstop that will deflect all of my bullets down to a pile of sand where I'll be able to recover my lead and recast. I imagine I have enough lead for a lifetime if I keep reusing it. With all the lead I have I can probably cast tens of thousands of rounds without having to recover and recast.

Lead is also great for using in a slingshot - wrist rocket. Just use a muzzle loading 50 caliber ball mold and paint your balls bright orange so you can find them after you shoot. Works great!

crowbeaner · December 31, 2008, 07:55 PM

UNBELIEVABLE! Somebody else uses a WRIST ROCKET! HAHAHAHAHA! I use smaller projectiles; "O" or "OO" buckshot. 2 KEWL! Beats plinking the red treerats with the 22 while deer hunting! And, you can carry the slingshot while bowhunting for near silent pest control while in the treestand!

TEDDY · December 31, 2008, 09:56 PM

there is so much bull about lead.I am 84 and started casting around 1939.I think that a lot of lead problems was from washing parts in leaded gasoline.and children eating window sills.
as for law on WW thats crap.walmart probly has to acount for lead product and sells to WW manufacturer.I got WW from tire place but many people are making fishing weights.
the NRA had a study and lead corrosion stops the lead from moving in the ground.we had a state biochemist test our reloading room and the pot did not give of lead fumes.most problem was houskeeping.we cleaned the backstop and got 26,000 lb of lead.8 position indoor range,400 members.this was in Mass.I am now in SC.Manning.

CrustyFN · January 1, 2009, 02:04 PM

I couldn't get WW's from Wally World, Sams Club, Sears or the big chain stores. I have two small tire dealers where I get WW's for free.
Rusty

putteral · January 1, 2009, 04:16 PM

I pay 45 cents per pound at the local recyclers here. Most tire shops will not sell their wheel weights but I am still looking.

ah141nj · January 2, 2009, 01:16 PM

National Lead Free Wheel Weight Intiative - NLFWWI

http://www.epa.gov/osw/hazard/wastemin/nlfwwi.htm

jtravisbayne · January 2, 2009, 03:11 PM

This was my post, so I'm going to weigh in on this excrament that the EPA is proposing. The link that ah141nj put in his posting is some comical reading. Below is a quote:

These weights often come loose and fall off. They are either washed into storm sewers and end up in waterways or are gathered during street cleaning and placed in municipal landfills.

If wheel weights are flying off of rims to the point that they are polluting the rivers, streams and landfills, wouldn't a cheaper solution be to find a better method of attaching them? I'll bet there's more lead fishing sinkers in a farm pond than wheel weights in the entire Mississippi River. Plus, what's so bad about having lead in a landfill? It's not like it's radioactive. It's on the periodic table of elements, right next to gold. Which means it came out of the ground to start with! Fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of wheel weights stay on the rim. Otherwise, consumers would be belly aching about bouncing up and down the highway because their wheels were constantly out of balance.

Finally, I'm no scientist, but exactly what material are they proposing to use instead of lead? Lead is the substance of choice because it is cheap and very dense (heavy). Steel isn't as heavy and will rust unless it is stainless, which ain't cheap. Aluminum is light as a feather and also expensive. Copper? Forget it; might as well use gold. Plastics pose more problem for landfills than lead could ever hope to. So what's the alternative? Or is this just our government enacting yet another law that drives up prices because of some hypothetic implausible problem that doesn't exist while passing the cost on to the taxpaying public?

DEDON45 · January 2, 2009, 04:59 PM

The lead thing is a crock... yes, it is a poison, if you ingest it or inhale lead dust, etc. Simply touching a lead wheel weight won't hurt you... but I do wash my hands thoroughly after handling a lot of bullets, and keep my hands off of food, etc. until I do. If I do ever start casting my own, I'll just do it outside so the fumes can vent... I do avoid shooting lead bullets indoors (indoor ranges) as well, and I keep the cover on my tumbler (lead is used in primers) when it's running and not.

totalloser · January 6, 2009, 01:51 AM

Yeah the lead thing is pretty overblown. The nasty stuff is lead oxide, which most of us will never EVER see in such volume as a CAR BATTERY. Now if someone let my kids play with mercury, on the other hand, I'd kick their butt right OFF.

There was little harm in eliminating leaded fuel. Just had to use hardened valve seats. And eliminating leaded paint-well it tastes like mint candy! Probably not the best thing to paint a school with.

I think what people forget is that life is dangerous, and the only real guarantee is that YOU ARE GONNA DIE! So why sweat the little stuff? Aaalways look on the briiight side of life!

December 31, 2008, 09:28 AM	#1
jtravisbayne Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Location: Simpsonville, SC Posts: 48	Wheel Weights The other day, my father was at Sam's and casually asked one of the tire guys what they did with their scrap wheel weights. The guy told him that they are required to recycle them due to environmental regulations and if they gave them away or sold them to someone other than a recycler, they could be fined somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,000. Not ready to accept legal interpretations from Smitty the tire guy just yet, but thought I'd see if anyone else had run into this. We're in upstate, SC by the way. I'm going to ask some other tire shops to see if I get the same song and dance. If this is the case, it really makes no sense to me. Lead is not good to have in one's body, but last time I checked, the only way to get lead in one's bloodstream is to 1) inhale lead dust via the lungs; 2) ingest lead via the mouth:barf:; 3) be penetrated by lead via a lead projectile. So unless someone has a gigantic nose big enough to snort a wheel weight, likes to gnaw on wheel weights or there's a wheel weight firing pistol I don't know about, I'd say scrap wheel weights are fairly safe.

December 31, 2008, 10:21 AM	#2
GoldenRoyBoy Junior member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Location: Trinidad, Colorado Posts: 107	My neighbor snorts the stuff all the time --- Yes, Walmart here is Trinidad, CO sings the same song; dances the same dance! Yet, I can drive north, getting all they have! (hint) If you fan a $10 bill, as you ask you are more apt to be rewarded. And, speak soft; to only one guy at a time. GRB

December 31, 2008, 12:05 PM	#6
kyle663 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: IL Posts: 311	same bs here the walmart here in illinois told me something similar but i went a 1/2 mile down the road to a local tire store and they sold me a 5 gallon bucket that took 2 guys to hump into my truck for 25 bucks. i thinks its just wally world cya deal. __________________ NRA member 22LR,17hmr, 9mm, 9mm makarov, 38 S&W, 38/357, 41mag, 44mag, 45ACP, 7.62x39, 7.62x54, 222rem

December 31, 2008, 01:53 PM	#10
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	I got the same lame Wally World answer when I asked the guy at the local store. I'm going to start hitting tire shops around here. I don't need many; 300 lbs. would be plenty. __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.

December 31, 2008, 03:40 PM	#11
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	The government says wheel weights have to be lead-free by sometime in 2011, so start stocking up now. Lead metal cannot be absorbed through the skin, nor even can inorganic compounds of lead, even though the latter would pose a problem if ingested. Skin absorption is really limited to organic compounds, like the tetraethyl lead that used to be in gasoline. Indeed, metallic lead is not all that easily absorbed by ingestion or exposure to other body fluids. Many a civil war vet lived a long life carrying a lead bullet or part of one in his body. "Lead fumes" are mostly lead oxide from reacting with air and lead oxide (lead paint pigment) is a compound that body acids can break down to absorb the lead into the blood and fats for storage. If you search this forum or the Shooters Forum on lead poisoning you'll find lots of casters and others who've had their blood tested and have no high lead levels. From that I take it that regular exposure is needed for adults to suffer a problem (you do sweat it out over time). Take the basic precaution of having some flow-through air ventilation going on and you will be fine. If you start a bullet casting business, that means a lot more exposure and more care with ventilation is required. Hobbyists are not usually at it for nearly as many hours out of the year. I would not cast in an area accessible to pregnant women, small children or pets. Even then, primer residue and its dust in tumbling media from cleaning cases is the bigger threat, I believe. That dust includes carbonates of lead that are readily reactive with acids, are at least partly water soluble, and it wafts and falls were children and pets can pick it up for ultimate transferal to the child's hands by direct contact or by petting the pet. From there to mouth. The wheel weight policy of the big box stores is probably partly due to regulations being different for a large organization than for a small one. It is undoubtedly also due to their lawyers realizing that money hungry teams of litigating attorneys monitor their every move, studiously searching any hint of an opportunity to sue. That's what happens when you develop deep pockets. It happened the company a friend of mine works for. Out of town lawyers came in and convinced a jury 50 year-old pre-EPA rule ground waste had caused children to get brain tumors. The jury didn't care there was no scientific proof of that. The lawyers just have to succeed in manipulating the beliefs of a simple majority of the jurors in civil court; they don't need the unanimous jury criminal court requires. It caused the company to close a plant and 200 jobs to be lost permanently. But the lawyers got their fraudulently (in my view) obtained money, so I guess that makes it OK. Bottom line: the big box stores with their deep pockets are probably wise to be concerned and to enforce their policy. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

December 31, 2008, 11:03 AM	#3
cgaengineer Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2008 Posts: 264	The stores around here give them away. That being said, lead can also be absorbed into your skin just from contact.

December 31, 2008, 11:12 AM	#4
jtravisbayne Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Location: Simpsonville, SC Posts: 48	Can't refute your absorbtion in the skin argument, but my experience with lead is from the EPA's Protect Your Family From Lead In Your Home brochure. I've got a few rental properties that were built back in the 40's, 50's and 60's and I'm required to give this brochure to all new tenants. The EPA doesn't list skin absorbtion as a means by which lead can enter the body in their brochure. They specifically state that lead can get into a persons body if they: 1) Breathe lead dust 2) Put their hands or other objects covered in lead dust in their mouths 3) Eat paint chips or soil that contains lead But just to be on the safe side, I'll stop wearing my lead Speedo.

December 31, 2008, 11:53 AM	#5
cgaengineer Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2008 Posts: 264	And we all know the EPA is very much on the safe side. My parents used to play with mercury as kids...my grandfather had a tub of it for some reason? EPA blows poisoning way out of proportion...I think its just a way to create more jobs.

December 31, 2008, 12:14 PM	#7
TheNatureBoy Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2007 Posts: 1,204	What does this have to do with firearms. Did I miss something?

December 31, 2008, 12:22 PM	#8
jtravisbayne Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Location: Simpsonville, SC Posts: 48	I was trying to find out if this wheel weight "law" was an actual law or a Wal-Mart policy. I'd like to get a cheap source of lead and if there was something new regarding disposal of wheel weights, I wanted to check to see if anyone had the scoop on it. We kind of got off on a tangent of how lead gets absorbed in the body. My apolgies. I'll try to do better about staying on subject.

December 31, 2008, 03:54 PM	#12
KUHIO Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 250	I work in a tire shop in NV. Never heard of such regs. I'm swimming in these things. We used to just toss them out until I made every one save them

December 31, 2008, 07:02 PM	#13
cchardwick Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 574	About two years ago I went from tire shop to tire shop here in Denver and almost all of them said NO. They had a recycle place come and pick them up. But I did find a couple shops and eventually got a five gallon bucket full. I also recycled some scrap aluminum and found that the recycle place actually sold lead so I picked up about 300 pounds of soft lead, not wheel weights, for my muzzle loading adventures. I think it was about ten cents a pound or so. I'm in the process of making a steel backstop that will deflect all of my bullets down to a pile of sand where I'll be able to recover my lead and recast. I imagine I have enough lead for a lifetime if I keep reusing it. With all the lead I have I can probably cast tens of thousands of rounds without having to recover and recast. Lead is also great for using in a slingshot - wrist rocket. Just use a muzzle loading 50 caliber ball mold and paint your balls bright orange so you can find them after you shoot. Works great!

December 31, 2008, 07:55 PM	#14
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	UNBELIEVABLE! Somebody else uses a WRIST ROCKET! HAHAHAHAHA! I use smaller projectiles; "O" or "OO" buckshot. 2 KEWL! Beats plinking the red treerats with the 22 while deer hunting! And, you can carry the slingshot while bowhunting for near silent pest control while in the treestand! __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.

December 31, 2008, 09:56 PM	#15
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	lead there is so much bull about lead.I am 84 and started casting around 1939.I think that a lot of lead problems was from washing parts in leaded gasoline.and children eating window sills. as for law on WW thats crap.walmart probly has to acount for lead product and sells to WW manufacturer.I got WW from tire place but many people are making fishing weights. the NRA had a study and lead corrosion stops the lead from moving in the ground.we had a state biochemist test our reloading room and the pot did not give of lead fumes.most problem was houskeeping.we cleaned the backstop and got 26,000 lb of lead.8 position indoor range,400 members.this was in Mass.I am now in SC.Manning.

January 1, 2009, 02:04 PM	#16
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	I couldn't get WW's from Wally World, Sams Club, Sears or the big chain stores. I have two small tire dealers where I get WW's for free. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

January 1, 2009, 04:16 PM	#17
putteral Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2008 Location: Homosassa,Florida Posts: 206	I pay 45 cents per pound at the local recyclers here. Most tire shops will not sell their wheel weights but I am still looking.

January 2, 2009, 01:16 PM	#18
ah141nj Member Join Date: November 6, 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 76	Lead WW's to be phased out by 2011 National Lead Free Wheel Weight Intiative - NLFWWI http://www.epa.gov/osw/hazard/wastemin/nlfwwi.htm __________________ There's no such thing as a good gun. There's no such thing as a bad gun. A gun in the hands of a bad man is a very dangerous thing. A gun in the hands of a good person is no danger to anyone except the bad guys." -- Charlton Heston, 15 Sep 1997

January 2, 2009, 03:11 PM	#19
jtravisbayne Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Location: Simpsonville, SC Posts: 48	The EPA Can Start Carrying Me to Work! This was my post, so I'm going to weigh in on this excrament that the EPA is proposing. The link that ah141nj put in his posting is some comical reading. Below is a quote: *These weights often come loose and fall off. They are either washed into storm sewers and end up in waterways or are gathered during street cleaning and placed in municipal landfills.* If wheel weights are flying off of rims to the point that they are polluting the rivers, streams and landfills, wouldn't a cheaper solution be to find a better method of attaching them? I'll bet there's more lead fishing sinkers in a farm pond than wheel weights in the entire Mississippi River. Plus, what's so bad about having lead in a landfill? It's not like it's radioactive. It's on the periodic table of elements, right next to gold. Which means it came out of the ground to start with! Fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of wheel weights stay on the rim. Otherwise, consumers would be belly aching about bouncing up and down the highway because their wheels were constantly out of balance. Finally, I'm no scientist, but exactly what material are they proposing to use instead of lead? Lead is the substance of choice because it is cheap and very dense (heavy). Steel isn't as heavy and will rust unless it is stainless, which ain't cheap. Aluminum is light as a feather and also expensive. Copper? Forget it; might as well use gold. Plastics pose more problem for landfills than lead could ever hope to. So what's the alternative? Or is this just our government enacting yet another law that drives up prices because of some hypothetic implausible problem that doesn't exist while passing the cost on to the taxpaying public?

January 2, 2009, 04:59 PM	#20
DEDON45 Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2008 Posts: 278	The lead thing is a crock... yes, it is a poison, if you ingest it or inhale lead dust, etc. Simply touching a lead wheel weight won't hurt you... but I do wash my hands thoroughly after handling a lot of bullets, and keep my hands off of food, etc. until I do. If I do ever start casting my own, I'll just do it outside so the fumes can vent... I do avoid shooting lead bullets indoors (indoor ranges) as well, and I keep the cover on my tumbler (lead is used in primers) when it's running and not.

January 6, 2009, 01:51 AM	#21
totalloser Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2007 Location: Fort Bragg, CA Posts: 679	Yeah the lead thing is pretty overblown. The nasty stuff is lead oxide, which most of us will never EVER see in such volume as a CAR BATTERY. Now if someone let my kids play with mercury, on the other hand, I'd kick their butt right OFF. There was little harm in eliminating leaded fuel. Just had to use hardened valve seats. And eliminating leaded paint-well it tastes like mint candy! Probably not the best thing to paint a school with. I think what people forget is that life is dangerous, and the only real guarantee is that YOU ARE GONNA DIE! So why sweat the little stuff? Aaalways look on the briiight side of life! __________________ You only truly believe in freedom if you believe in the freedom of those you disagree.