Round for varmints up to whitetail deer

Elliottsdad · July 30, 2015, 11:16 PM

So, I checked out Chuck Hawk's article on "Best All-Around Rifle Cartridges" and it was primarily about CXP2 and CXP3 game.

I live in Omaha, and would like to have recommendations on the best cartridge for both varmints and deer. In Nebraska, we don't have much use for anything above the rare Elk (unlikely for me to ever hunt). I want to be able to hunt deer humanely but not vaporize rabbits. Does such a round exist?

Reading here and elsewhere, I've seen hunters recommend .243 and .25-06 for such a task. Are there any others you could suggest?

I won't hunt black bear, or moose. This is for deer and smaller. Thoughts?

Mosin-Marauder · July 30, 2015, 11:19 PM

Any of the 6.5 calibers, 6.5x55mm, 6.5 Grendel, Creedmoor, .260 Remington really shines for Varmints and Whitetail.

Scorch · July 31, 2015, 12:22 AM

6mm Remington, 243, 7x57, 7-08, 257 Roberts, the list goes on and on. You are essentially asking which varminting cartridges are versatile enough to take big game, or which big game cartridges will work on varmints as well as big game. I had a friend who shot everything from squirrels to elk with his '06, but you have to be willing to do so.

TimW77 · July 31, 2015, 12:48 AM

As mentioned above...

Any of the 6.5 calibers, 6.5x55mm, 6.5x38mm Grendel, 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Remington are excellent, true all-around cartridges...

Know the internet babies will throw a tantrum but, I think the 6mm/.24 calibers are too small and lack the versatility of the .25s and larger...

For my uses the 7mm cartridges and larger are too much for a long day of varmint shooting...

With the 6.5 cartridges you have 75g to 100g varmint bullets, 100g to 160g hunting bullets and 107g to 155g target bullets (Grendel is best with 130g and lighter bullets).

A versatility the .25s and 24s can't match...

For myself and what I would hunt, all I need is my .260 Rem and a .338-06 woul allow me to hunt any game in the Western Hemisphere.

Add a .416 (Rigby) or a .45 for dangerous game and I be ready to go back to Africa...

T.

samsmix · July 31, 2015, 12:57 AM

For great performance, low recoil, and a little less plain vanilla flavor, I always recommend the .257 Roberts!

I too prefer the .25s and 6.5s over the 6mms on deer sized game. Noticeable difference.

mikejonestkd · July 31, 2015, 05:55 AM

I use a 243 win in a pistol for most of my deer hunting and it drops them as well as larger rounds.
Great choices are the 243, 6mm rem, the multitude of 6.5mm rounds, and the 257 roberts.
If I was starting from scratch I'd probably pick the .260 rem.

CarJunkieLS1 · July 31, 2015, 05:55 AM

7mm-08...for small game up to deer IMO the 7-08 is the best of both worlds. However most of the considerations above including 7-08 would require reloading to get the most versatility out of them. If you are a not a reloader and don't plan to be then the .243 would be the best for you simply because of the range of bullet weights available in factory fodder.

jdscholer · July 31, 2015, 06:28 AM

So far, any of the cartridges mentioned, WILL vaporize a rabbit.

jd

The Big D · July 31, 2015, 07:39 AM

I agree - there's nothing that will humanely take deer that is suitable for rabbit. There's options that go down as far as coyote and such OK. The .243 Winchester is the most common.

jmr40 · July 31, 2015, 07:40 AM

From varmints up to whitetails 223 would work just fine. Use varmint bullets for varmints and big game bullets for deer. I'd limit shots on deer to no more than 200 yards.

You don't need anything bigger than 243 for deer and it'll work on elk. 243 will do everything a 25-06 will do on bigger game and is a better choice for varmints.

Everything bigger than 243 is really meant for deer or larger, not varmints.

Personally, I'd have to own 2 rifles. It'd be a 223 for varmints up to whitetail deer and something bigger for deer and up. But if you are absolutely positive you'll never hunt anything bigger than deer and want to limit it to one rifle a 243 just makes the most sense.

jdscholer · July 31, 2015, 07:47 AM

AND -- if you want to reload for whatever rifle you decide is adequate for deer, you can also create ammo that is tailored for small game/varmints. jd

taylorce1 · July 31, 2015, 07:49 AM

12 or 20 gauge shotgun with extra slug barrel, is one option not to destroy rabbits and still be able to hunt deer.

Then NE hunting regs state for rifle deer .22 caliber and up generating 900 ft-lbs at 100 yds; .357 magnums or .45 Colt. These last two will give you options of using Cowboy action loads which will be pretty low powered and might work well on rabbits, to full power loads like Buffalo Bore makes for big game. You'll be limited on rifles in .45 Colt to lever actions and single shots, but the .357 will give you options like the Ruger 77/357 bolt action and the Deerfield carbine in semiautomatic ( which probably won't cycle with.CAS loads).

Your best bet however would be to have a combination of a centerfire and rimfire rifles as well as a good shotgun to round out your big and small game hunting needs.

The Big D · July 31, 2015, 07:55 AM

If you're going to use .223 on deer, I would limit myself to premium bullets like the Federal/Nosler partition load. The .223 has a lack of penetration in general.

The Big D · July 31, 2015, 08:13 AM

One possibly attractive option if you reload is to use IMR Trailboss powder to make reduced power loadsfor the .243. IMR endorses this approach FWIW - they show loads that use as little as 50% of the case capacity for .243 (per quickload) and have velocities in the rimfire range.

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

603Country · July 31, 2015, 08:23 AM

I use a 260 as an all around rifle. I don't have a 243. Still, I think the 243 would be the best combo caliber, since you can load bullets from 55 gr to over 100 gr, but that's a range best utilized if you reload.

But...back to the 260. I load mostly the 100 gr Nosler BT, a nice little bullet that works for coyote to whitetail. Of course the same weight bullet would be just as good in the 250, 257, 243, 25-06.

Elliottsdad · July 31, 2015, 10:13 AM

Thank you for all of your thoughtful responses! A few clarifications/questions:

Quote:

Your best bet however would be to have a combination of a centerfire and rimfire rifles as well as a good shotgun to round out your big and small game hunting needs.

I own a scoped 10/22, but only a 20 inch barreled Mossberg 500 (not very useful for hunting, I'm sure; a longer barrel is on my list of things to get sooner than later). But really I'm looking for that versatile centerfire rifle.

Quote:

So far, any of the cartridges mentioned, WILL vaporize a rabbit.

Does this mean there's not a round light enough on the pill spectrum to not obliterate small game, yet be available in large pills for deer-sized game? Is this a velocity issue where the round with enough velocity to take a deer will always be too much for small game due to the speed/energy (regardless of bullet grain)?

Quote:

AND -- if you want to reload for whatever rifle you decide is adequate for deer, you can also create ammo that is tailored for small game/varmints.

I don't reload. This isn't to say I'm not willing to learn how, or invest in the equipment some day. It's just that for now I'm pretty much limited to the most versatile factory loadings.
The .243 is getting mentioned a lot. I'll have to read about the .257 Roberts a bit (and the .260!)
Again, thanks for your time/thoughts!

ammo.crafter · July 31, 2015, 10:20 AM

That's a difficult choice.

The first cartridge that came to mind was a .22-250. But there may be cartridge restrictions re deer where you hunt.

I happen to use an ancient 98k Mauser I converted to a 6 mm Remington that works perfectly for me...then again, I reload for it.

Good luck and good hunting!

**44 AMP** · July 31, 2015, 10:25 AM

Quote:

there's nothing that will humanely take deer that is suitable for rabbit.

There are quite a few choices that can be used to humanely take deer and rabbits both. How well it does either is dependent on the shooter.

ALso, lets be clear, by including rabbits, you aren't just talking a varmint/deer round, you are including small game as well. You can take rabbits with a deer rifle, but you won't find any factory ammo that won't "blow them up" (other than a head shot).

You can make low velocity loads (cast bullets are best for that), for any deer/varmint rifle, but most folks won't go to that much trouble.

Where the law allows, a .22pistol does well for small game needs while hunting bigger things (or varmints) with the rifle.

A shotgun is a good choice, allowing deer & rabbit loads simply by switching the shell in the chamber. If you are going to use a rifle, legal for deer, you are limited to head shots, or making your own "rabbit loads".

Standard ammo in all of the common 6mm, 6.5mm, .25cal "dual purpose" cartridges are very likely to "blow up" a rabbit with varmint bullets, and with deer bullets, could just zip through the body without an instant, clean kill.

Boogershooter · July 31, 2015, 11:20 AM

Check your game laws. Most states do not allow rabbits to b taken with center fire rifles during regular rabbit season. I do occasionally let my kids shoot a rabbit out of the food plot at the end of a hunt. Never experienced vaporizing with 243, 223, or 300blkout. They shoot for the head and even if they hit the shoulder meat there is still two good hind quarters to go with the biscuits at supper!

Gunplummer · July 31, 2015, 11:48 AM

Deer bullets do not "Zip through" small game unless your bullets are no good. I shot a groundhog on the 100 yard line on the range one day. The rifle was a 6.5x55 loaded about half way up the scale and topped with a Sierra 160 Grain semi-RN bullet. It was open sights, so I hit it about in the center. It literally blew it in half. About a 1" piece of skin holding it together.
Hang a half gallon jug that is filled halfway up with water from a string. Using your favorite deer rifle and cartridges, shoot a couple holes through the top part (With no water) and go check the results. Next, shoot at the bottom part. If you do not get a violent reaction when shooting at the water part of the jug, there is something wrong with your bullets. Keep in mind that the water in the jug is not even compressed.

T. O'Heir · July 31, 2015, 01:11 PM

"...WILL vaporize a rabbit..." Even with a change of bullet.
"...Most States do not allow..." And this. It's usually illegal.
Varmints are another thing though. A 90 grain FMJ out of a .243 will make a puncture would in a ground hog with no exit hole. They'll drop Wile E. and not wreck the hide too. Change to a 105 SP and hunt Bambi.
Of course, the .243 isn't the only cartridge that'll do that. Any .24, .25. .26 or .27 calibre will too.

Mobuck · July 31, 2015, 04:50 PM

I used to think the 243 was the answer to this question until I used a 25/06. If the ranges reach over 250 yards or animal size exceeds 200#, the 25/06 has a distinct advantage.

Elliottsdad · July 31, 2015, 05:44 PM

Thanks, everyone! You've given me a lot to think about! If I do "pull the trigger" (pun intended) on a new rifle, I'll be sure to let you know what I went with. Take care!

Mosin-Marauder · July 31, 2015, 06:17 PM

Good Luck!

oldscot3 · July 31, 2015, 07:07 PM

I have a 6mm Rem and two "pet loads", one with a 100 gr. deer bullet the other with a 75gr. varmint bullet. While I have shot many deer, a fox, and a bobcat with the 100 grainers, I've only actually used the 75 gr. once on a critter; a jack rabbit at about 75 yards. He didn't explode, no exit, but when I picked him up, it was like lifting a bag of jello. That box of ammo is gathering dust.

Now I look for for excuses in uses; I look for reasons to justify another rifle, not limit myself to one. I'm not saying buy two guns and send the kids to school barefooted, but a one gun solution to two jobs can sometimes leave you less than satisfied for at least one of the jobs.

July 30, 2015, 11:16 PM	#1
Elliottsdad Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2010 Location: Glenwood, Iowa Posts: 238	Round for varmints up to whitetail deer So, I checked out Chuck Hawk's article on "Best All-Around Rifle Cartridges" and it was primarily about CXP2 and CXP3 game. I live in Omaha, and would like to have recommendations on the best cartridge for both varmints and deer. In Nebraska, we don't have much use for anything above the rare Elk (unlikely for me to ever hunt). I want to be able to hunt deer humanely but not vaporize rabbits. Does such a round exist? Reading here and elsewhere, I've seen hunters recommend .243 and .25-06 for such a task. Are there any others you could suggest? I won't hunt black bear, or moose. This is for deer and smaller. Thoughts?

July 30, 2015, 11:19 PM	#2
Mosin-Marauder Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,320	Any of the 6.5 calibers, 6.5x55mm, 6.5 Grendel, Creedmoor, .260 Remington really shines for Varmints and Whitetail. __________________ Proud owner of three (four-ish) pieces of history! K-31, Mosin-Nagant M91/30, M24/47 Mauser, Norinco SKS. "You might as well appeal against a thunderstorm..." William Tecumseh Sherman

July 31, 2015, 12:22 AM	#3
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	6mm Remington, 243, 7x57, 7-08, 257 Roberts, the list goes on and on. You are essentially asking which varminting cartridges are versatile enough to take big game, or which big game cartridges will work on varmints as well as big game. I had a friend who shot everything from squirrels to elk with his '06, but you have to be willing to do so. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

July 31, 2015, 12:48 AM	#4
TimW77 Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2008 Posts: 485	Another vote for the 6.5mm cartridges As mentioned above... Any of the 6.5 calibers, 6.5x55mm, 6.5x38mm Grendel, 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Remington are excellent, true all-around cartridges... Know the internet babies will throw a tantrum but, I think the 6mm/.24 calibers are too small and lack the versatility of the .25s and larger... For my uses the 7mm cartridges and larger are too much for a long day of varmint shooting... With the 6.5 cartridges you have 75g to 100g varmint bullets, 100g to 160g hunting bullets and 107g to 155g target bullets (Grendel is best with 130g and lighter bullets). A versatility the .25s and 24s can't match... For myself and what I would hunt, all I need is my .260 Rem and a .338-06 woul allow me to hunt any game in the Western Hemisphere. Add a .416 (Rigby) or a .45 for dangerous game and I be ready to go back to Africa... T.

July 31, 2015, 12:57 AM	#5
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,273	For great performance, low recoil, and a little less plain vanilla flavor, I always recommend the .257 Roberts! I too prefer the .25s and 6.5s over the 6mms on deer sized game. Noticeable difference. __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

July 31, 2015, 05:55 AM	#6
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,716	I use a 243 win in a pistol for most of my deer hunting and it drops them as well as larger rounds. Great choices are the 243, 6mm rem, the multitude of 6.5mm rounds, and the 257 roberts. If I was starting from scratch I'd probably pick the .260 rem. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

July 31, 2015, 05:55 AM	#7
CarJunkieLS1 Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2013 Posts: 686	7mm-08...for small game up to deer IMO the 7-08 is the best of both worlds. However most of the considerations above including 7-08 would require reloading to get the most versatility out of them. If you are a not a reloader and don't plan to be then the .243 would be the best for you simply because of the range of bullet weights available in factory fodder.

July 31, 2015, 06:28 AM	#8
jdscholer Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Jefferson State Posts: 1,197	So far, any of the cartridges mentioned, WILL vaporize a rabbit. jd __________________ "We're all dummies, just in different ways." Old Okie Philosopher

July 31, 2015, 07:39 AM	#9
The Big D Junior member Join Date: July 19, 2015 Posts: 173	I agree - there's nothing that will humanely take deer that is suitable for rabbit. There's options that go down as far as coyote and such OK. The .243 Winchester is the most common.

July 31, 2015, 07:40 AM	#10
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	From varmints up to whitetails 223 would work just fine. Use varmint bullets for varmints and big game bullets for deer. I'd limit shots on deer to no more than 200 yards. You don't need anything bigger than 243 for deer and it'll work on elk. 243 will do everything a 25-06 will do on bigger game and is a better choice for varmints. Everything bigger than 243 is really meant for deer or larger, not varmints. Personally, I'd have to own 2 rifles. It'd be a 223 for varmints up to whitetail deer and something bigger for deer and up. But if you are absolutely positive you'll never hunt anything bigger than deer and want to limit it to one rifle a 243 just makes the most sense.

July 31, 2015, 07:47 AM	#11
jdscholer Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Jefferson State Posts: 1,197	AND -- if you want to reload for whatever rifle you decide is adequate for deer, you can also create ammo that is tailored for small game/varmints. jd __________________ "We're all dummies, just in different ways." Old Okie Philosopher

July 31, 2015, 07:49 AM	#12
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,242	12 or 20 gauge shotgun with extra slug barrel, is one option not to destroy rabbits and still be able to hunt deer. Then NE hunting regs state for rifle deer .22 caliber and up generating 900 ft-lbs at 100 yds; .357 magnums or .45 Colt. These last two will give you options of using Cowboy action loads which will be pretty low powered and might work well on rabbits, to full power loads like Buffalo Bore makes for big game. You'll be limited on rifles in .45 Colt to lever actions and single shots, but the .357 will give you options like the Ruger 77/357 bolt action and the Deerfield carbine in semiautomatic ( which probably won't cycle with.CAS loads). Your best bet however would be to have a combination of a centerfire and rimfire rifles as well as a good shotgun to round out your big and small game hunting needs. __________________ NRA Life Member

July 31, 2015, 07:55 AM	#13
The Big D Junior member Join Date: July 19, 2015 Posts: 173	If you're going to use .223 on deer, I would limit myself to premium bullets like the Federal/Nosler partition load. The .223 has a lack of penetration in general.

July 31, 2015, 08:13 AM	#14
The Big D Junior member Join Date: July 19, 2015 Posts: 173	One possibly attractive option if you reload is to use IMR Trailboss powder to make reduced power loadsfor the .243. IMR endorses this approach FWIW - they show loads that use as little as 50% of the case capacity for .243 (per quickload) and have velocities in the rimfire range. http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

July 31, 2015, 08:23 AM	#15
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I use a 260 as an all around rifle. I don't have a 243. Still, I think the 243 would be the best combo caliber, since you can load bullets from 55 gr to over 100 gr, but that's a range best utilized if you reload. But...back to the 260. I load mostly the 100 gr Nosler BT, a nice little bullet that works for coyote to whitetail. Of course the same weight bullet would be just as good in the 250, 257, 243, 25-06.

July 31, 2015, 10:20 AM	#17
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	all around round That's a difficult choice. The first cartridge that came to mind was a .22-250. But there may be cartridge restrictions re deer where you hunt. I happen to use an ancient 98k Mauser I converted to a 6 mm Remington that works perfectly for me...then again, I reload for it. Good luck and good hunting! __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

July 31, 2015, 11:20 AM	#19
Boogershooter Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2014 Posts: 645	Check your game laws. Most states do not allow rabbits to b taken with center fire rifles during regular rabbit season. I do occasionally let my kids shoot a rabbit out of the food plot at the end of a hunt. Never experienced vaporizing with 243, 223, or 300blkout. They shoot for the head and even if they hit the shoulder meat there is still two good hind quarters to go with the biscuits at supper!

July 31, 2015, 11:48 AM	#20
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Deer bullets do not "Zip through" small game unless your bullets are no good. I shot a groundhog on the 100 yard line on the range one day. The rifle was a 6.5x55 loaded about half way up the scale and topped with a Sierra 160 Grain semi-RN bullet. It was open sights, so I hit it about in the center. It literally blew it in half. About a 1" piece of skin holding it together. Hang a half gallon jug that is filled halfway up with water from a string. Using your favorite deer rifle and cartridges, shoot a couple holes through the top part (With no water) and go check the results. Next, shoot at the bottom part. If you do not get a violent reaction when shooting at the water part of the jug, there is something wrong with your bullets. Keep in mind that the water in the jug is not even compressed.

July 31, 2015, 01:11 PM	#21
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...WILL vaporize a rabbit..." Even with a change of bullet. "...Most States do not allow..." And this. It's usually illegal. Varmints are another thing though. A 90 grain FMJ out of a .243 will make a puncture would in a ground hog with no exit hole. They'll drop Wile E. and not wreck the hide too. Change to a 105 SP and hunt Bambi. Of course, the .243 isn't the only cartridge that'll do that. Any .24, .25. .26 or .27 calibre will too. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

July 31, 2015, 04:50 PM	#22
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I used to think the 243 was the answer to this question until I used a 25/06. If the ranges reach over 250 yards or animal size exceeds 200#, the 25/06 has a distinct advantage.

July 31, 2015, 05:44 PM	#23
Elliottsdad Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2010 Location: Glenwood, Iowa Posts: 238	Thanks, everyone! You've given me a lot to think about! If I do "pull the trigger" (pun intended) on a new rifle, I'll be sure to let you know what I went with. Take care!

July 31, 2015, 06:17 PM	#24
Mosin-Marauder Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,320	Good Luck! __________________ Proud owner of three (four-ish) pieces of history! K-31, Mosin-Nagant M91/30, M24/47 Mauser, Norinco SKS. "You might as well appeal against a thunderstorm..." William Tecumseh Sherman

July 31, 2015, 07:07 PM	#25
oldscot3 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2007 Location: texas Posts: 997	I have a 6mm Rem and two "pet loads", one with a 100 gr. deer bullet the other with a 75gr. varmint bullet. While I have shot many deer, a fox, and a bobcat with the 100 grainers, I've only actually used the 75 gr. once on a critter; a jack rabbit at about 75 yards. He didn't explode, no exit, but when I picked him up, it was like lifting a bag of jello. That box of ammo is gathering dust. Now I look for for excuses in uses; I look for reasons to justify another rifle, not limit myself to one. I'm not saying buy two guns and send the kids to school barefooted, but a one gun solution to two jobs can sometimes leave you less than satisfied for at least one of the jobs.