m1 carbine information guys.

[tahunua001]

hello all,
this thread is strictly academic at this point but I would like to get a bit of education on the M1 carbine. there is a gun show coming up and I'll be setting up a booth so I'll be able to pretty much get first dibs on anything there so if there is anything there for a decent price I would like to get my hands on it.

1. what is a decent price? and I'm not talking about decent compared to the last 3 months, I'm talking standard C&R collectors price.

2. who where the manufacturers?

3. where did they mark the guns/ what marks should I expect, I have picked some up in pawnshops devoid of almost any markings whatsoever.

4. how do I tell the difference between a real M1C and an auto ordnance that has been 'aged'.

5. were there ever any copycat brands(other than AO/Kahr) to look out for?

[James K]

There is no easy answer because for collectors' prices a lot depends on not only condition but also on the manufacturer. In addition, an original early carbine, with no upgrades can bring a lot more than one that underwent the normal upgrades. (This has led to a lot of carbines being "restored" to their "original" configuration with prices increased accordingly. This is something knowledgeable buyers need to look for.)

The WWII manufacturers (prime contractors) were Inland Div. of GM, Sagiinaw Div. of GM, Quality Hardware, National Postal Meter, IBM, Standard Products, Winchester, Irwin Pedersen, Rockola, and Underwood. No maker made all the parts of the carbine. There are also many ramifications and variations (like the M1A1 carbine with the folding stock, which is often faked with various kinds of folding or collapsing stock.)

All GI carbines are marked on the rear of the receiver; unfortunately, that marking is covered by the later rear sight and is usually very hard to read without a good light.

There have been a number of post-WWII makers. The best known are Plainfield and Universal. Both used GI parts early but made their own later on; both had variations in quality.

In brief, you have tackled an immensely complex (but interesting) collecting area. No one here has the time or (in my case) the inclination to try to cover it all. I strongly recommend Larry Ruth's "War Baby!" and "War Baby II" if you are seriously interested in the carbine. The books will cost money, but investing in a carbine that turns out to be a fake could cost a lot more.

Jim

[kilimanjaro]

Seems about $800 or a bit more is a good price for a real M1 of WWII date and all there, not a parts gun. The Underwood is a bit more. Avoid any Paratrooper carbines you are offered, the odds are it's a postwar fake.

Nearly all the early years production was modified during the war to take the bayonet lug, a lot of button safeties became levers, that kind of thing. It was genuine gov't work in service, that's all fine as far as collecting goes.

You can still find 'em out there for $400, they come out of closets into the hands of widows and grandchildren who don't want them, and deals can be found.

[mapsjanhere]

We've been getting about $600 per for your run of the mill carbine (actual sales) on the last couple gun shows. Got 800 for a Bavarian in nice condition.

[PetahW]

FWIW, There's "parts guns" (mixed manufacturer's), and there's "parts guns" (assembled of parts from the same maker).

My Bud has two M1 Carbine "parts guns" - that there's no way to know about them being so, since a local FFL got a few dozen of the M1's as parts, along with a few crates of spares, which he allowed my (knowledgeable) Bud to pick through and assemble the two Carbines, each with it's own matching parts.

IIRC, one was an Inland & the other a Rockola.



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[g.willikers]

Is this approach anything like the guy who says, "Hey, the guy down the street says I can borrow his sprint car. Quick guys, tell me how to drive one."

Try here for info, for starters:
http://riverbankarmory.com/history.html

http://fulton-armory.com/faqs/M1C-FAQs/M1Carbine.htm

http://www.brownells.com/books-video...20PUBLICATIONS

[FALPhil]

FWIW, There's "parts guns" (mixed manufacturer's), and there's "parts guns" (assembled of parts from the same maker).

Be careful, Petah. Over the years, there have been over a few dozen M1 Carbine manufacturers. During WWII, there were 10 manufacturers that supplied the Ordnance Department with carbines. None of those 10 manufacturers made all of their own parts. There were literally hundreds of subcontractors that made parts for the 10 prime contractors. After the war, no less than 36 companies in 5 countries manufactured and sold M1 carbines. Many of them were chambered in cartridges other than 30 Carbine. Some, especially the ones that marketed rimfire versions, manufactured all of their own parts, but most did not. Others used milsurp parts for many of their offerings.

In its day, the M1 Carbine was an extremely popular weapon. IMO, it is still a practical platform for many situations.

[PetahW]

Thanks, I know - I was referring to the maker-marked parts.


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[James K]

One of the less savory things about the carbine collecting field is the number of fake parts on the market that are unmarked and will be stamped by the seller with any letters the buyer wishes. Those parts are usually fairly crude and not up to GI standards, so it also is a good idea for a prosprective carbine collector to examine as many of those guns as possible before investing money.

Jim