Bullseye vs. W231 in 45acp

[Tex S]

Which do you prefer and why? What type of loads are you loading (powderpuff, hardball, SD, etc.).

I have been loading 5.3gr of 231 over a Dardas LSWC seated at 1.250", and have had exceptional accuracy. I would like to try loading Bullseye just to give me something to do.

For those of you who have tried both powders, which one do you like best and why? Do you think I would see a difference in the two powders?

[rwilson452]

I have used both and use W231 now. both are accurate across the load range. W231 meters better out of a volumetric measure.

Bullseye vs. W231 in 45acp
Which do you prefer and why? What type of loads are you loading (powderpuff, hardball, SD, etc.).

I have been loading 5.3gr of 231 over a Dardas LSWC seated at 1.250", and have had exceptional accuracy. I would like to try loading Bullseye just to give me something to do.

For those of you who have tried both powders, which one do you like best and why? Do you think I would see a difference in the two powders?

[Mike Irwin]

I started with 231 and the results were so good that I saw absolutely no need to try anything else.

[PCJim]

Bullseye is a great powder and I use both BE and W231 in several pistol calibers. Both work well for 9mm and 45acp, as well as others. However, if it wasn't so economical to use, I wouldn't buy it. It is a dirty powder. I'm working on an 8#keg and once it is gone, no more of that quantity. Maybe a pound for backup, but I'll try some of the other cleaner burning powder.

I have found though that it works better under the bullet

[Slamfire]

This is almost a "Ford versus Chevy" comparison.

These two powders were the most popular 45 ACP powders back in the 80's. I suspect they still are in the upper ten, if not upper five.

I have used both. Both are very versatile. You will see people offering lots of load data in non magnum calibers.

I want to reduce the different powders I am using, so I am trying to get down to Bullseye, Unique, and 2400 for all pistol calibers. Fortunately or unfortunately I keep on acquiring estate sale powders, one of which is W231.

So I have used a lot of W231 in the 45 ACP.

I cannot tell a difference in on target performance, function, or “cleanliness” . I use motor oil to lubricate my 45 ACP, that stuff has limited ability to dissolve residue, so when I am done shooting, the pistols wipe off quickly.

Load testing with Bullseye reveals that you can develop very slow loads and the pistol still cycles and shoots accurately.

I do like the fact that standard deviations are very tight with Bullseye. It is unusual to measure standard deviations under 20 with handgun cartridges. This is only an opinion, but I like having a powder that gives a consistant sharp kick to the mechanism. I think it increases reliability, maybe accuracy.

My self imposed velocity limit for 230’s is 800 fps. I get plenty of power, little or no leading, plenty accurate, and it is easier on the gun than 900 fps loads. Having had a factory new Colt M1911 Combat Master peen its frame out, I know recoil is hard on these things, and I don’t want the cost of replacing a frame out of warranty.

Below is data with Bullseye. Different bullet shapes, different primers. It all shoots good.

Kimber Custom Classic 				
						
	
200 LSWC 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases CCI300 
OAL 1.250" taper crimp 0.469"	
11-Sep-05 T = 88 °F
	
Ave Vel =738.9					
Std Dev =10.34					
ES	37.98					
High	755.8					
Low	717.8					
N =	32					
						
						
200 LSWC 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WLP  	
OAL 1.250" taper crimp 0.469"	
21-Jun-06T = 97 °F
	
Ave Vel =748.2		
Std Dev =10.86					
High	763.2					
Low	721.7					
N =	22					
Mild recoil, very accurate, excellent target load.						




230 LFN Bull-X 3.5 grs Bullseye Mixed Brass WLP OAL 1.20" taper crimp .469"	


8-Jan-06	T = 61 °F

Ave Vel =643.6				
Std Dev =14.07			
ES =	63.63			
High = 	679.9		 		
Low =	616.3				
N =	32
				 
      shot a little high Pistol cycled each shot



230 LFN Bull-X 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed Brass WLP OAL 1.20" taper crimp .469"		
		

8-Jan-06	T = 61 °F

Ave Vel =715.9				
Std Dev =11.45			
ES =	48.32		 		
High = 	742.9		 		
Low =	694.8				
N =	32				 
shot a little low

230 gr LRN 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed Brass WLP OAL 1.250" taper crimp .469"		
	
29-Jan-06 T = 68  °F	

Ave Vel =698.8				
Std Dev =10.19		
ES =36.33		 		
High = 713.5				
Low =677.1				
N =28
				 
V. Accurate
		
230 gr LRN  4.5 grs Bullseye Mixed Brass WLP OAL 1.250" taper crimp .469"		
21-Jun-06 T = 97  °F	
	
Ave Vel = 805.2		
Std Dev =11.4		
ES=54.08		
High=836.9		 
Low=782.8		 
       N =32

Accurate

[Wulfmann]

Both are great powders but as stated Bullseye is so dirty I call it a semi-smokeless powder.

I switched to RamShot ZIP because it is very clean and gives even more loads per pound the W231, which is excellent.

I have made ZIP my standard 45ACP powder and everyone else that has tried it (in our G-club) has switched to it as well.
Clean cheap, meters well, finally, something better than W231, IMO.

Wulfmann

[Unclenick]

Bullseye was the original powder used by John Browning for the .45 ACP. Someone recently described some very old military ammo boxes declaring the 5.0 grain Bullseye load inside.

Bullseye definitely does not meter as well as 231. Bullseye does burn faster and the charge needed to get to a certain velocity/pressure is usually about 5% lower than the necessary charge of 231.

As to cleanliness, I have heard it both ways. Most of the fellows here find Bullseye dirtier. Just Slamfire1 said he finds they are about the same. Back in the 80's when I was still shooting in Bullseye leagues, a number of fellows switched to 231 and complained it was dirtier than Bullseye, but said they liked the easy metering and felt the change was worth it for that. What I think the discrepancies are about is peak pressures. The higher the peak pressure, the more completely a powder will burn. With everyone's favorite wad load being a little different, they got different amounts of soot. Bullseye also throws a fair amount of graphite around, which looks like soot, but actually helps lubricate some wherever it lands.

I find Hodgdon Universal is a pretty good grain-for-grain substitute for 231 and it burns cleaner and meters somewhere inbetween 231 and Bullseye. It is perhaps closer Unique in burning rate, so it misses out on Bullseye's sharper recoil impulse. But it's another thing to try into the mix.

[Mike Irwin]

Yep, Bullseye is one of our oldest smokeless powders.

Originally it was the "fines" screened from production lots of a shotgun powder....

Imperial?

Can't remember anymore.

It turned out that it was so versatile that within a few years Hercules began manufacturing it specifically.

Supposedly late production .38 Long Colt and .45 Long Colt rounds were also loaded with Bullseye for military applications.

[Sport45]

Originally Posted by Tex S

I have been loading 5.3gr of 231 over a Dardas LSWC seated at 1.250", and have had exceptional accuracy.

If it ain't broke, why fix it?

[45Marlin carbine]

I've used BE with good results for cast slugs in my .45acp for some years it is a little dirty but easy to clean up.
on a whim I got some Red Dot from my B-in-law's shotshell loading set-up and now prefer it over BE, it's more bulky and cleaner too - so far so good in shooting after about 100 rouinds fired in .45 and another 100 9 para with cast slugs. I've never used 231 but a shooting buddy has and says it's good.
I'm planning on trying some Ramshot - when it's available.

[Shane Tuttle]

Originally Posted by Unclenick

I find Hodgdon Universal is a pretty good grain-for-grain substitute for 231 and it burns cleaner and meters somewhere inbetween 231 and Bullseye.

I might take your statement out of context, but Hodgdon's HP38 is the twin sister of Win231 right down to the grain. It's my favorite.

[ehb86]

I've had good results with W231, but I've had even better results accuracy wise with WST. You might give it a try when you next need powder. It's very accurate in my HK Expert .45. It seems pretty clean too. You know how it is though, different things work better in some guns. I don't have my data handy to tell you the loads I've been using, sorry.

[Crankylove]

I have loaded both in my .45's , and still do use some 231, but most of my .45 ACP gets bulleye now. It is a bit dirtier than the 231, but I found a load that shoots great with it, so that is used in the majority of what I load for my 1911's . I have nothing against 231, and use it in 9mm, .38 Special and now and then the .45's. If I hadn't stumbled across my pet load, I would probably use whichever of them was cheaper at the time.

I haven't really found either to meter better than the other out of my powder measure, and other than the greater fouling Bullseye has, I really have no complaints about either of them.

[WESHOOT2]

Bullseye's residue gums up my guns much more rapidly than W231 (like 150--200rds vs 6--8K W231), so I use W231.

The vast majority of my 45 ACP ammo has been loaded with W231, and I consider it the finest 'one-powder' choice for this chambering.
I use it with swaged, cast, plated, and jacketed bullets weighing from 165g up to 255g.
I switch to Power Pistol for seriously ferocious +P ammo.

[tbtrout]

I have only used 231 and have not seen the need to switch. It does what I need it to do and soes it very well.

[Jim Watson]

For medium to full charges, IPSC Major to hardball; 231 is good. I have shot a lot of it, the last few years with the HP38 label.

I have recently worked with some other powders in very light loads, IPSC Minor or NRA "short line", and found Bullseye the most consistent with the least velocity variation. I got the most velocity variation and the most unburnt powder from 231, WST, and AA452. Flake powders like Clays and Solo 1000 fell in between.

[lmccrock]

I shot lots of 231 in 45, 9mm, and 38 spec. I picked it for the versatility. It is not ideal for any of those, but it is a great choice if the goal is one powder for all three.

I prefer a faster powder for 45, but my loads are IPSC major, so 230gr @ 740fps or so. The smaller powder loads of Clays or Titegroup mean a softer push to get the velocity, compared to 231. But if all I could bet was 231, I would be happy. Oh, Clays and TG get the job done with about 1.0 gr less powder, so they are cheaper per shot.

Lee

[tiberius10721]

bullseye is a far better choice for 45acp than win231 bullseye gives u more velocity with less pressure.I looked it up in my lee manual and there are far better choices for a 45acp powder than win231.even blue dot is a better choice for a 45 acp powder than win231.HP-38 also great choice for 45 acp powder.so is titegroup.win 231 would be one of my last choices for 45 acp powder.

[orionengnr]

^^^^

HP-38 also great choice for 45 acp powder.so is titegroup.win 231 would be one of my last choices for 45 acp powder.

W-231 and HP 38 are identical. See post # 11 above.

[kraigwy]

Having shot many Bullseye matches with both, they seem to both be excellant powders.

I just happen to have about 20 1# cans of 231 I didnt have to pay for, so at this point I dont see me going back to Bullseye.

[tiberius10721]

if w-231 and hp 38 are identicle why is my load data different in my lee manual for the two?Is it just an error in my manual?

[tiberius10721]

oh I see now its my old lee manual