Ortges .32 (gun of the day)

johnwill · August 4, 2001, 02:14 PM

Here's a little pistol that comes in sizes, the .25ACP model looks exactly like this one, and seems to have all the same parts.

Harley Nolden · August 5, 2001, 11:13 AM

Although German, Heinrich Ortgies lived in Liege for several years. There he designed an automatic pistol, patented in 1918. He returned to Erfurt after hostilities had ceased, to begin making the 7.65mm Ortgies pistol. Success was considerable, even in the depressed powtwar market, Upwards of 10,000 were made. However, DeutscheWerke (q.v.) of Erfurt made the inventor an offer too attractive to refuse, taking over the patents, stock and tools. ortgies himselfappears to have taken no further interest in firearms..

The original Orgtgies-made models are marked ORTGIES & CO. ERFURT ORTGIES PATENT on the slide, a bronze medalion with an 'HO' monogram being let into the grips. These medallions were retained by Deutsche Werke for some years, together with the Ortgies Patent. Both these acknowledgements were subsequently dropped, marking the the expiring of Ortgies interest in his patents.

Looking at the medallion on the photo suggests to me that the gun was produced after Ortgies resigned all interests in firearms or is not the original grip but is an after-market. Ther is also the possibility that this is the grip made with the pistol after the resigning.

HJN

johnwill · August 5, 2001, 05:30 PM

I'm pretty sure the grips are original on both of my Ortgies pistols. I've seen many of these pistols, and all of them had an identical medallions on them. The slide on both of them have the same data, "Deutsche Werke - Werk Erfort" and the other side has "Ortgies' Patent". The guns have crown proofs on the barrel, slide, and frame. There are no import marks on either of them.

You are correct in assuming that this is most likely a pistol made later in the production run, I haven't checked on the manufacture date of either of the Ortgies. I figured they were made between the wars.

So many pistols, so little time...

James K · August 5, 2001, 11:05 PM

Hi, guys,

The grips are a stylized "D" for Deutsche Werk. Only the very early pistols have the Ortgies logo.

A couple of words of advice on those pistols. To remove the slide, pull back and up while holding the dismount button on the left side of the frame, then remove the slide forward over the barrel. To re-assemble, make sure the firing pin is locked into the little cut on the inside top of the slide before bringing the slide down onto the frame. Otherwise, it just won't go together.

If you want to remove the grips, DO NOT PRY. With the slide off, look up at the inside rear of the magazine well and you will see a flat plate. Press in (back) on that with a dowel or a screwdriver and the grips will fall off. Make sure you catch them on something soft; they can break if they fall on a hard floor. Press the catch back again when replacing the grips.

There is only a grip safety, no manual or thumb safety. With the gun cocked, the dismount button sets the grip safety, but it is not itself a safety.

Jim

James K · August 6, 2001, 11:54 AM

OOOPS!

In a general response to an e-mail question, on the assembly note above, I said to make sure the firing pin is locked into the cut in the inside top of the slide. That should have read "make sure the firing pin spring guide is locked..."

Sorry for any confusion.

Jim

**Mike Irwin** · August 6, 2001, 02:00 PM

OK, John, the Ortgies is now officially the ugliest gun in your "gun of the day" line up.

James K · August 6, 2001, 03:41 PM

Nah, Mike. Like some women, she ain't really ugly, but she sure is plain.

Jim

johnwill · August 6, 2001, 05:45 PM

Mike, how can that be true??? I think the Ortgies is not that bad looking a gun. Did you forget the Warner Infallible so soon???

How can you say the Ortgies is uglier than this beast???

**Mike Irwin** · August 6, 2001, 10:14 PM

Holy crap, John...

Take a look at the profile of the Warner, especially the way the barrel flows, and the cocking piece on the rear...

I think we have the design basis for the Japanese Type 94 pistol!

johnwill · August 7, 2001, 05:00 PM

Ah yes, the Type 94. Clank, rattle, where's that camera... Don't know if it's a close relative, perhaps a kissin' cousin.

August 4, 2001, 02:14 PM	#1
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	Ortges .32 (gun of the day) Here's a little pistol that comes in sizes, the .25ACP model looks exactly like this one, and seems to have all the same parts.

August 6, 2001, 02:00 PM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,395	OK, John, the Ortgies is now officially the ugliest gun in your "gun of the day" line up. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 6, 2001, 10:14 PM	#9
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,395	Holy crap, John... Take a look at the profile of the Warner, especially the way the barrel flows, and the cocking piece on the rear... I think we have the design basis for the Japanese Type 94 pistol! __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 5, 2001, 11:13 AM	#2
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	Although German, Heinrich Ortgies lived in Liege for several years. There he designed an automatic pistol, patented in 1918. He returned to Erfurt after hostilities had ceased, to begin making the 7.65mm Ortgies pistol. Success was considerable, even in the depressed powtwar market, Upwards of 10,000 were made. However, DeutscheWerke (q.v.) of Erfurt made the inventor an offer too attractive to refuse, taking over the patents, stock and tools. ortgies himselfappears to have taken no further interest in firearms.. The original Orgtgies-made models are marked ORTGIES & CO. ERFURT ORTGIES PATENT on the slide, a bronze medalion with an 'HO' monogram being let into the grips. These medallions were retained by Deutsche Werke for some years, together with the Ortgies Patent. Both these acknowledgements were subsequently dropped, marking the the expiring of Ortgies interest in his patents. Looking at the medallion on the photo suggests to me that the gun was produced after Ortgies resigned all interests in firearms or is not the original grip but is an after-market. Ther is also the possibility that this is the grip made with the pistol after the resigning. HJN

August 5, 2001, 05:30 PM	#3
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	I'm pretty sure the grips are original on both of my Ortgies pistols. I've seen many of these pistols, and all of them had an identical medallions on them. The slide on both of them have the same data, "Deutsche Werke - Werk Erfort" and the other side has "Ortgies' Patent". The guns have crown proofs on the barrel, slide, and frame. There are no import marks on either of them. You are correct in assuming that this is most likely a pistol made later in the production run, I haven't checked on the manufacture date of either of the Ortgies. I figured they were made between the wars. So many pistols, so little time...

August 5, 2001, 11:05 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, guys, The grips are a stylized "D" for Deutsche Werk. Only the very early pistols have the Ortgies logo. A couple of words of advice on those pistols. To remove the slide, pull back and up while holding the dismount button on the left side of the frame, then remove the slide forward over the barrel. To re-assemble, make sure the firing pin is locked into the little cut on the inside top of the slide before bringing the slide down onto the frame. Otherwise, it just won't go together. If you want to remove the grips, DO NOT PRY. With the slide off, look up at the inside rear of the magazine well and you will see a flat plate. Press in (back) on that with a dowel or a screwdriver and the grips will fall off. Make sure you catch them on something soft; they can break if they fall on a hard floor. Press the catch back again when replacing the grips. There is only a grip safety, no manual or thumb safety. With the gun cocked, the dismount button sets the grip safety, but it is not itself a safety. Jim

August 6, 2001, 11:54 AM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	OOOPS! In a general response to an e-mail question, on the assembly note above, I said to make sure the firing pin is locked into the cut in the inside top of the slide. That should have read "make sure the firing pin spring guide is locked..." Sorry for any confusion. Jim

August 6, 2001, 03:41 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Nah, Mike. Like some women, she ain't really ugly, but she sure is plain. Jim

August 6, 2001, 05:45 PM	#8
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	Mike, how can that be true??? I think the Ortgies is not that bad looking a gun. Did you forget the Warner Infallible so soon??? How can you say the Ortgies is uglier than this beast???

August 7, 2001, 05:00 PM	#10
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	Ah yes, the Type 94. Clank, rattle, where's that camera... Don't know if it's a close relative, perhaps a kissin' cousin.