Neck Tension issue--prolly bad brass?

Dave R · January 10, 2011, 11:44 PM

Bad reloading session this weekend. Loaded about 150 rounds of .223. Plinking load. Mixed brass that had all been reloaded several times before. AND a batch of 30 once-fired N.P.A brass. Greek, IIRC. Winchester 55gr bullets with cannelure.

Of the 30 NPA brass, all but 8 of them had bad neck tension. Bullets pushed back into the case with light-to-moderate effort.

NONE of the other mixed brass had neck tension issues. I tested them all, and man, were my fingers sore after mashing 150 rounds!!

So I'm assuming the Greek brass is either not ductile enough or too thin for the die to compress enough to create good neck tension.

Crazy thing is, I have reloaded quite a few of these N.P.A cases before, with no neck tension issues.

I checked die settings. And again, all the other types of brass had normal tension.

Any other thoughts?

p.s, I found that its hard to use the impact puller to pull those bullets while the powder is still in the cases. And its hard to get the powder out while the bullets are still in the cases. I busted my RCBS impact puller. Which is about 7 years old. All in all, a frustrating reloading session.

Win_94 · January 11, 2011, 12:43 AM

I would think your "once-fired N.P.A brass" was fired more than once.

I'd anneal it...

Actually, I buy new brass then anneal it when needed.

Dave R · January 11, 2011, 12:56 AM

I took it from the box and fired it myself, so pretty sure its once fired.

Haven't annealed anything in a long time...

Shoney · January 11, 2011, 03:13 AM

What was your trim length?

Dave R · January 11, 2011, 12:33 PM

Whatever spec is. 1.75, IIRC. Both the bad brass and the good brass were all trimed together before reloading.

Shoney · January 11, 2011, 12:57 PM

Dave R
Your problem has the same symptoms of someone over crimping the cartridge. Since you have trimmed the brass (presuming you did so after sizing, not before), the only thing that comes to mind is that the 8 problem NPA cases have a thicker neck, and thereby is getting a slight over crimp.

If those cartridges are still intact, mike the neck diameter. Compare it with other cartridge necks of the same and different brass.

Dave R · January 11, 2011, 01:08 PM

Will do, Shoney. Good idea.

Ach--I trimmed BEFORE resizing. Could that have affected neck tension?

Regarding over-crimp, though, I'm not crimping these loads. That's one of the reasons I'm still puzzled.

Tex S · January 11, 2011, 03:32 PM

Dave,

I always trim after resizing. The sizing die can make cases longer or shorter, so it is best to trim after sizing.

crowbeaner · January 11, 2011, 04:32 PM

Best mic to use is a zero to one inch ball mic to check the neck wall thickness. Every lot and make of brass varies; it's a good idea to sort by headstamp first before loading.

700cdl · January 12, 2011, 12:37 AM

Sounds more like you may have not completed the full stroke on a few when re-sizing. I've never had a neck tension problem, even with brass that had been loaded a dozen times with super high pressure loads.

Dave R · January 19, 2011, 05:25 PM

Sooo, I reloaded the same cases again last night, with different bullets, no issues.

However, when I tried to re-use the pullets I had pulled from the first reloading, I had the same problem with neck tension.

So I miked the bullets, as opposed to miking the necks.

Guess what. There was a .001 bulge right at the bottom of the bullets. These are Remington bullets, and they measure .223 except right at the base. .224 there. So I'm assuming the base stretched the neck as it went in, and as a result, the neck was only holding that ridge at the base, not the full base of the bullets.

Bad QC on Remington's part.

700cdl · January 20, 2011, 12:25 AM

That's interesting. I bought some Winchester bullets that were way out of specification. Not only were they as much .002 over sized, but many were buldged and way out of round. I never experienced that before, or since, in some 25 years of hand loading. It has made pay a little more attention to how a bullet feels when I seat it, as I'm sure will be the case with you now.

Dave R · January 20, 2011, 03:37 PM

Yes. When I loaded the oversized Remingtons, I noticed more resistance on the ram. The properly sized bullets had less resistance, which is a little counter-intuitive.

January 10, 2011, 11:44 PM	#1
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Neck Tension issue--prolly bad brass? Bad reloading session this weekend. Loaded about 150 rounds of .223. Plinking load. Mixed brass that had all been reloaded several times before. AND a batch of 30 once-fired N.P.A brass. Greek, IIRC. Winchester 55gr bullets with cannelure. Of the 30 NPA brass, all but 8 of them had bad neck tension. Bullets pushed back into the case with light-to-moderate effort. NONE of the other mixed brass had neck tension issues. I tested them all, and man, were my fingers sore after mashing 150 rounds!! So I'm assuming the Greek brass is either not ductile enough or too thin for the die to compress enough to create good neck tension. Crazy thing is, I have reloaded quite a few of these N.P.A cases before, with no neck tension issues. I checked die settings. And again, all the other types of brass had normal tension. Any other thoughts? p.s, I found that its hard to use the impact puller to pull those bullets while the powder is still in the cases. And its hard to get the powder out while the bullets are still in the cases. I busted my RCBS impact puller. Which is about 7 years old. All in all, a frustrating reloading session. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

January 11, 2011, 12:56 AM	#3
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	I took it from the box and fired it myself, so pretty sure its once fired. Haven't annealed anything in a long time... __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

January 11, 2011, 03:13 AM	#4
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	What was your trim length? __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

January 11, 2011, 12:33 PM	#5
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Whatever spec is. 1.75, IIRC. Both the bad brass and the good brass were all trimed together before reloading. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

January 11, 2011, 12:57 PM	#6
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	Dave R Your problem has the same symptoms of someone over crimping the cartridge. Since you have trimmed the brass (presuming you did so after sizing, not before), the only thing that comes to mind is that the 8 problem NPA cases have a thicker neck, and thereby is getting a slight over crimp. If those cartridges are still intact, mike the neck diameter. Compare it with other cartridge necks of the same and different brass. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

January 11, 2011, 12:43 AM	#2
Win_94 Junior member Join Date: August 21, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 214	I would think your "once-fired N.P.A brass" was fired more than once. I'd anneal it... Actually, I buy new brass then anneal it when needed.

January 11, 2011, 01:08 PM	#7
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Will do, Shoney. Good idea. Ach--I trimmed BEFORE resizing. Could that have affected neck tension? Regarding over-crimp, though, I'm not crimping these loads. That's one of the reasons I'm still puzzled. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

January 11, 2011, 03:32 PM	#8
Tex S Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TEXAS Posts: 909	Dave, I always trim after resizing. The sizing die can make cases longer or shorter, so it is best to trim after sizing.

January 11, 2011, 04:32 PM	#9
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	Best mic to use is a zero to one inch ball mic to check the neck wall thickness. Every lot and make of brass varies; it's a good idea to sort by headstamp first before loading. __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.

January 12, 2011, 12:37 AM	#10
700cdl Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2010 Posts: 216	Sounds more like you may have not completed the full stroke on a few when re-sizing. I've never had a neck tension problem, even with brass that had been loaded a dozen times with super high pressure loads.

January 19, 2011, 05:25 PM	#11
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	It was the bullets! Sooo, I reloaded the same cases again last night, with different bullets, no issues. However, when I tried to re-use the pullets I had pulled from the first reloading, I had the same problem with neck tension. So I miked the bullets, as opposed to miking the necks. Guess what. There was a .001 bulge right at the bottom of the bullets. These are Remington bullets, and they measure .223 except right at the base. .224 there. So I'm assuming the base stretched the neck as it went in, and as a result, the neck was only holding that ridge at the base, not the full base of the bullets. Bad QC on Remington's part. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

January 20, 2011, 12:25 AM	#12
700cdl Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2010 Posts: 216	That's interesting. I bought some Winchester bullets that were way out of specification. Not only were they as much .002 over sized, but many were buldged and way out of round. I never experienced that before, or since, in some 25 years of hand loading. It has made pay a little more attention to how a bullet feels when I seat it, as I'm sure will be the case with you now.

January 20, 2011, 03:37 PM	#13
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Yes. When I loaded the oversized Remingtons, I noticed more resistance on the ram. The properly sized bullets had less resistance, which is a little counter-intuitive. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).