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Old April 28, 2014, 08:26 PM   #1
judsonm123
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357 Magnum with AA #9 and Berry's 158gr Plated

I am new to reloading, and I have a question about possibly substituting some components in a reloading recipe published by Accurate Arms.

Due to the current component shortage, I was only able to locate the following items:
  • 357 Brass (already had)
  • CCI Small Pistol Magnum Primers
  • Accurate Arms #9
  • Berry's preferred plated bullets 38/357 158gr

The load data from Accurate Arms has a recipe for:
  • Small Pistol Magnum Primer
  • 11.2-12.4gr of AA#9
  • 158gr Laser Cast, Oregon Trail Bullet Company, Lead, Semi-Wadcutter

I want to use this recipe with the bullets I was able to find. The information I've read regarding plated bullets says that it is OK to use the load data for lead bullets. Is it safe to use the recipe above with the components I have listed above?

Also, if this load is OK, do I need to pay extra attention to my crimp?

TL;DR I have a different bullet than the load recipe calls for; are the bullets close enough to be considered almost the same?
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Old April 28, 2014, 08:36 PM   #2
shooterbob
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Berrys has load data on their website, however, plated and cast load the same. You can also use mid range jacketed data in the same weight and style. I'm not sure on the crimp, but I would crimp them the same as I do jacketed. They are a very thin plating, but shoot well.
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Old April 28, 2014, 11:29 PM   #3
Misssissippi Dave
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If you wanted Jacketed bullets you could use Montana Gold Bullets. I use their 158 grain JHP with AA7 or AA9 powder and use Speer #14 load data for the minimum/maximum. I don't load to top end very often and find the mid to a bit higher than mid range often works well for my needs.

When buying MG bullets I only buy them by the case to get the best pricing.
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Old April 29, 2014, 07:05 AM   #4
Slamfire
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I used CCI standard primers with lead bullets. I would quit at 12.0 grains.


Code:
158 LRN   12.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 Mixed cases 
		
5-Aug-06	T = 104 °F
				
Ave Vel =1278		 		
Std Dev =34.98				 
ES  =	117.4			 
High  =1344			 
Low  =	1226				
 N =	27				 
					
 Accurate little or no leading				
					
					
158 LRN   12.5 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D  cases
 		
5-Aug-06	T = 104 °F
				
Ave Vel =1348		 		
Std Dev =34.16			 
ES  =	134.7			 
High  =1386				 
Low  =	1251				
 N =	25				 
					
 Very Accurate	sticky extraction	no leading			
					
					
158 LRN   13.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D cases 
		
5-Aug-06	T = 104 °F
				
Ave Vel =1360		 		
Std Dev =33.19			 
ES  =	109.8			 
High  =1393				 
Low  =	1284				
 N =	26
				 
 Very Accurate	sticky extraction	no leading			
			
					
158 JHP 13.0 grs AA#9 R-P cases WSP			
					
9-Oct-05	T = 64 °F				
				
Ave Vel =1156			
Std Dev =35.63				 
ES  =	160.6				 
High  =1230				 
Low  =	1069				 
N =	20
				 
Very accurate					
					
158 JHP (W/W) 14.0 grs AA#9 R-P cases WSP		
					
9-Oct-05	T = 64 °F				
				
Ave Vel =1208			
Std Dev =27.65			 
ES  =	89				 
High  =	1255				 
Low  =	1166				 
N =	24
				 
Very accurate					
				
					
158 LSWC Linotype 12.0 AA#9 Mixed cases CCI500 	
	 				
14 Oct 2008 T =  80 °F				
					
Ave Vel =1217				
Std Dev =52				
ES =	224.9				
High =	1346				
Low =	1121				
N =	29	

				
					
	
 
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Old April 29, 2014, 10:13 AM   #5
judsonm123
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Thanks Slamfire and others. Sounds like I'll be safe.

Would you start with 11 grains?
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Old April 29, 2014, 01:43 PM   #6
Nick_C_S
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Yeah, you'll be safe. AA9 is an extremely forgiving propellant.

Now how well the load combination works for you may be a different story.

I know we load with what we can get these days. We all wish conditions were better in terms of component availability. That said, I'm not a big fan - at all - of using AA9 for anything other than full-house magnum (357, 44, 454, etc) loads with jacketed bullets; and only for 6"+ barrels at that. I hear of people loading cast lead and plated slugs with such slow powders, but I'm a little skeptical of their glowing performance reports (no leading problems; unrealistic velocities, etc.) To be certain, it's not something I will be doing.

I'll be the first to tell you that I am a very fast powder centric loader. Other than Winchester 296 (similar to AA9) for my 8"bbl magnums, the slowest power with which I load is AA7 - and that is a very rare event. I consider AA5 a "slow" powder - relative to most of my applications.

I'll cease with droning on about my loading style. Point is: load with your AA9 as you need - until you can find something better suited for your application.
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Old April 29, 2014, 02:01 PM   #7
judsonm123
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Yes, I was really hoping to buy a powder that could be used for 38 special, but this was the only handgun powder I could find. Thanks for your reply. It was very helpful.
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Old April 29, 2014, 03:03 PM   #8
WESHOOT2
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Apply sufficient crimp to preclude bullet 'creep'.

AA9 is for higher performance loads; might need a bit more than 11.0g.
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Old April 29, 2014, 03:07 PM   #9
judsonm123
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I'm still fuzzy on the dangers of loading too little powder. Will I be safe at 11 grains?

I just want to load a few safely, then I can focus on making them accurate and powerful.
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Old April 29, 2014, 03:10 PM   #10
WESHOOT2
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Redding Profile Crimp Die, properly adjusted

Yes, you'll be (utterly) safe.
Use .2g increments if increasing charge.

Me, I might start, with your chosen components, at 11.4g. And I'd only load six, then test to ensure crimp is maintaining cartridge OAL.

Fire five, and measure the OAL of #6. Did it grow?
More crimp.
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Old April 29, 2014, 03:40 PM   #11
judsonm123
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Thank you. That's very helpful.
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Old April 29, 2014, 04:00 PM   #12
JT-AR-MG42
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Don't have experience with #9 in .357, but I would recommend using a taper crimp die
with those plated bullets.

One sees more selection of readily available taper crimp dies (in traditional revolver rounds) than before and I believe
most plated bullet manufacturers advise the use of them when applying a crimp.

The taper crimp process really does make it less likely to cut into or through the plating over a roll crimp.

My .02, JT
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Old April 29, 2014, 05:17 PM   #13
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millons of plated bullets served

The Redding Profile Crimp Die begins (and ends, if so adjusted) with a supremely symmetrical taper, and (if so adjusted) finishes with an equally superb and symmetrical roll.

It's that good that I give it my personal highest recommendation for any revolver cartridge.
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Old April 29, 2014, 06:43 PM   #14
judsonm123
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I am just getting started, and I only have the Lee Loader kit..
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Old April 29, 2014, 07:03 PM   #15
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357 Mag AA#9 158 gr published loads:

Hornady 2000 11.5 gr

"Midway Loadmap" 1999 15 bullets 11.3~11.7 gr

"Modern Reloading" Richard Lee 1996 13 gr

"Speer 12" 1994 13.7 gr
"Speer 13" 1998 13.7 gr

Accurate pamphlets 1996, 1997, 1999, & 2000 13 gr
"Accurate Arms Number Two" book 2000 15 gr
Accurate pamphlet 2001 "new data" 15 gr

"Lyman's 47th" 1992 16 gr
"Lyman Pistol and Revolver" 1994 16 gr

--------------------------------------------
My AA#9 158 gr experiments:
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
For a test gun, I used a 1965 Colt Police Positive 38 Special from Aim surplus [$79]. The limit of the strength of these guns is based on the chamber walls being ~0.060" thick.

I reamed the cylinder of Colt Police Positive to .357 mag length:

AA#9 1.590", 357 mag brass, wspm, hard crimp
16 gr OK!!
17 gr STOP! case stuck, hammered it out

That revolver should qualify as thin walled for the new lower threshold of 357 mag cases getting stuck per this 1991 post
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...0/cBSU4bR2jz8J
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Old April 29, 2014, 07:10 PM   #16
judsonm123
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Wow. I have an older Police Positive, I think, and I couldn't even imagine trying to run +Ps through it. I guess my GP100 will be fine with 11 grains...
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Old May 2, 2014, 05:03 PM   #17
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I have two of the LEE 'hammer kits' for 38 Special and 357 Magnum. I keep them in my bugout kit.
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