cowboy action shottie questions

Magnum Wheel Man · July 25, 2011, 05:26 PM

Got the carbine down... still working on the load for my revolvers... time to play a little with my shottie...

the gun... old Husky double barrel exposed hammer, rebounding firing pins Greener cross bolt... had my buddy shorten it to 21" barrels & fill in the void between the barrels with epoxy, & add a front bead...

the load... Winchester reduced recoil AA shells with #8 shot...

the results... at 25 ft my target ( 14" X 24" paper with 12" graduating circle patern in the center ) has a nice full pattern, but with the bead on the bullseye,I'm getting a heavier shot percentage a little high & to the right ( same with both barrels )

at 50 ft obviously more spread of pellets, but about the same heavier shot percentage a little high & right...

1st question... are the shotgun targets usually reactive ??? if so, what does it really take to topple ?? ( aproximate percentage of shot on the target )

2nd... what are the common distances the targets are shot ???

anyone see any problems with this set up, gun or load ???

I'm thinking about adding a slightly taller bead, which should move my dense pattern area down a little ... thoughts ???

BTW... just about have my "outfit" complete... Mrs. Magnum just had to take a couple blackmail pics last Sunday when I went out "in costume" to test handgun loads... she thought I looked so "cute"

( I have 2 pairs of cowboy boots, a couple pairs of button fly jeans, both with suspender buttons, a good pair of black elastic & leather suspenders... I had a henley on that day, & I now have a couple Resistol hats, one vintage from Idaho... plus my cheapie double gun belt rig ) still trying to decide on a shirt

anyways... a couple more details, & maybe I can get a couple matches under my gun belt, before the season is over

any help with the shottie questions would be great... thanks

Jim Watson · July 25, 2011, 05:44 PM

CAS shotgun targets are pretty close 50 FEET would be a lot around here.
Mostly splatter plates, but there are some knockdown targets. A cylinder bore pattern will handle them; it pretty well has to, so many shooters use wide open "coach guns" like your sawn off scattergun.
(Us big tough cowboys don't call them "shotties." Kind of like extending your pinkie to toss off that shot of redeye, don'cha know.)

I'd leave the bead alone and see how it worked on the clock.
Greatest risk on a shotgun is raising the head to get a better look at the target, which lets you see it real well as you miss. A moderately high pattern will help you fight that tendency.

I wear a lightweight plaid workshirt with the sleeves rolled up for summer shoots. Short sleeves ain't Cowboy.

Magnum Wheel Man · July 25, 2011, 05:50 PM

Thanks Jim... well I don't want to offend any of the "real cowboys"... so... "us real men" are just calling them scatter guns, or coach guns then ???

ya... I figured most were shooting sawn off old sporting guns, so I thought I'd leave the barrels at 21" rather than taking them all the way down to 18 or 19" incase I wasn't able to put enough lead on the reactive targets... always easier to cut a 2nd time than try to stretch something too short

Hawg · July 25, 2011, 05:57 PM

Mississippi Peacemakers use knock downs and sometimes poppers. The targets are about 20 ft. so no real need to aim just point and shoot. The poppers are fired from a knockdown. When the target goes over it throws a clay pigeon straight up

Jim Watson · July 25, 2011, 06:02 PM

I just call mine a shotgun, but "scattergun" is appropriate.

Mine has the original 27" (no doubt 68 cm, it is French) barrels but reamed out to about skeet choke. But then I am not a fast shooter by modern standards although I did well enough in the early days 15-18 years ago.

Magnum Wheel Man · July 25, 2011, 06:02 PM

Thanks for the info guys...

got another question ( sorry, I rarely use a shotgun, if I do, it's most often a single shot )

shooting for times... do shooters usually cock both hammers at the same time ( or is that not even allowed ?? ) I was going to test for sympathetic firing of the 2nd chamber, but didn't know if I even needed to or not ???

the gun is in very good shape... but it is old... sill working out a slightly gummy rebounding firing pin... didn't know if the hammers would remain solid under recoil ???

Jim Watson · July 25, 2011, 06:04 PM

I never worked with a hammer gun, maybe Hawg has something on them.

Fingers McGee · July 25, 2011, 06:33 PM

Shotgun targets around here are all knockdowns with the occasional popper that activates a bird thrower. Knockdowns generally at 20 to 25 feet.

Your setup sounds pretty good.

Cocking both hammers at the same time is perfectly legal. I have an 1889 Remington and a TTN that I can cock both hammers with the palm of my hand or one thumb.

Hawg · July 25, 2011, 07:07 PM

If your gun has ejectors(not likely) they're not allowed, you'll have to disable them. You can polish the chambers and wax your shells(smooth sided) and a flick of the wrist will send them sailing like it has ejectors.

BrittB · July 25, 2011, 07:17 PM

The ejector on my single shot H&K 20 ga flings the shell about 6 feet. I would miss that if I had to disable it but for CAS I would.

Hawg · July 25, 2011, 07:54 PM

For you would be gamers check this out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1BwUJ4--Qw

Jbar4Ranch · July 25, 2011, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrittB

The ejector on my single shot H&K 20 ga flings the shell about 6 feet. I would miss that if I had to disable it but for CAS I would.

Ejectors are legal on single shots.

SG29736 · July 25, 2011, 10:50 PM

You stage your shotgun, action open and empty, with the hammers cocked. There are a few different techniques used to cock the hammers as you are reloading for the 3rd and 4th shots. Some guns won't allow you to cock the right hand hammer with the action open because the release lever bumps up against the right hammer. Mark

Noz · July 26, 2011, 09:17 AM

To answer the question of "what does it take to take down a knock down", we have a Buckaroo that takes them down with a 410 with 3/4 oz of shot.

Tanker6 · July 26, 2011, 11:56 AM

My buckerette takes our 20-25 ft. knockdowns down (faster than I do

) with her 18.5" 1897 Winchester shooting Winchester AA Low Recoil, Low Noise shells (980 fps w/ no. 8 shot) or shells that I reload to the same/similar specs.

I don't shoot a hammer gun, but I want to (and will when I find the right deal). Watch some of the "good" hammered double shooters closely. After firing the first set (and the hammers can be cocked when staged, but the barrels are open and empty), they bring their front hand back along the top of the SG, cock both hammers and open the lever. Then, while reaching for their next two shells, they pull the SG back towards them to shuck the shells. It really is quite amazing when you watch someone who has the technique down well. I shoot with a fella who uses a hammered double and he can hit four targets in just over 4 seconds. I'd be lucky to do it in 10.

Magnum Wheel Man · July 26, 2011, 01:12 PM

Thanks for all the info & tips...

got one revolver question if you guys could...

My Montados are very early production ( with the grooves in the grip frame ) I had heard originally they were not legal, then heard they changed the rule this year, & they are legal now ???

I have one newer grip frame ( came on my custom snubbie which I replaced with a birds head grip... not particularly intended for cowboy use ) that grip frame is not grooved... I could swap that grip frame onto one of my older Montados, & order another new grip frame for the other if I needed to ( would rather not polish out my grooves )

so older Montados legal now or not ???

Jim Watson · July 26, 2011, 01:16 PM

I don't know but I doubt anybody will notice or care your first time out or even your first season.

Hawg · July 26, 2011, 01:17 PM

When I was still involved in it Montados were only legal for mounted shooting. Fingers can tell you but you can go here and get all your questions answered just by lurking. If you decide to join in better have a thick skin, some of these guys are touchy and short fused. http://sassnet.com/forums/

Fingers McGee · July 26, 2011, 02:01 PM

From the handbook:

• No portion of the grip frame may be checkered, stippled, serrated or otherwise modified to constitute a grip enhancement.

They would not be legal

Revolvers with Montado hammers were approved though.

Magnum Wheel Man · July 26, 2011, 02:06 PM

Ah... that was the change this last year... thanks

I'll have to order another grip frame... suppose I could use my 32 Mag single six for a 2nd revolver until I get the other grip ordered & changed out ???

Fingers McGee · July 26, 2011, 04:43 PM

Quote:

... suppose I could use my 32 Mag single six for a 2nd revolver until I get the other grip ordered & changed out ???

That would work.

Crunchy Frog · July 26, 2011, 07:51 PM

I think Ruger now makes the Montado sans grooves so it's legal for "ground" shooters.

I bet your local club could care less but ask. I've heard of folks filling the grooves with epoxy or sanding off the grooves.

William Gilmore · July 28, 2011, 12:06 AM

If you use light loads like the AA you will get a number of misses out here. We use poppers with red paint on the bottom. If the scorer doesn't see red its a miss. Even if you hit it it has to go all the way down. They also use large heavy walled pipes (6-8") that are hard to knock down. You have to hit them square, and hard. I use federal 12 ga. #7 high base in my Win '97 with a 20" barrel and a screw in full choke.

Hawg · July 28, 2011, 04:01 AM

Quote:

We use poppers with red paint on the bottom.

Poppers or knock downs? A knock down has to go all the way down. A popper throws a clay pigeon when it goes down but it still has to go all the way down.

July 25, 2011, 05:26 PM	#1
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	cowboy action shottie questions Got the carbine down... still working on the load for my revolvers... time to play a little with my shottie... the gun... old Husky double barrel exposed hammer, rebounding firing pins Greener cross bolt... had my buddy shorten it to 21" barrels & fill in the void between the barrels with epoxy, & add a front bead... the load... Winchester reduced recoil AA shells with #8 shot... the results... at 25 ft my target ( 14" X 24" paper with 12" graduating circle patern in the center ) has a nice full pattern, but with the bead on the bullseye,I'm getting a heavier shot percentage a little high & to the right ( same with both barrels ) at 50 ft obviously more spread of pellets, but about the same heavier shot percentage a little high & right... 1st question... are the shotgun targets usually reactive ??? if so, what does it really take to topple ?? ( aproximate percentage of shot on the target ) 2nd... what are the common distances the targets are shot ??? anyone see any problems with this set up, gun or load ??? I'm thinking about adding a slightly taller bead, which should move my dense pattern area down a little ... thoughts ??? BTW... just about have my "outfit" complete... Mrs. Magnum just had to take a couple blackmail pics last Sunday when I went out "in costume" to test handgun loads... she thought I looked so "cute" ( I have 2 pairs of cowboy boots, a couple pairs of button fly jeans, both with suspender buttons, a good pair of black elastic & leather suspenders... I had a henley on that day, & I now have a couple Resistol hats, one vintage from Idaho... plus my cheapie double gun belt rig ) still trying to decide on a shirt anyways... a couple more details, & maybe I can get a couple matches under my gun belt, before the season is over any help with the shottie questions would be great... thanks __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

July 25, 2011, 05:50 PM	#3
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Thanks Jim... well I don't want to offend any of the "real cowboys"... so... "us real men" are just calling them scatter guns, or coach guns then ??? ya... I figured most were shooting sawn off old sporting guns, so I thought I'd leave the barrels at 21" rather than taking them all the way down to 18 or 19" incase I wasn't able to put enough lead on the reactive targets... always easier to cut a 2nd time than try to stretch something too short __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

July 25, 2011, 06:02 PM	#6
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Thanks for the info guys... got another question ( sorry, I rarely use a shotgun, if I do, it's most often a single shot ) shooting for times... do shooters usually cock both hammers at the same time ( or is that not even allowed ?? ) I was going to test for sympathetic firing of the 2nd chamber, but didn't know if I even needed to or not ??? the gun is in very good shape... but it is old... sill working out a slightly gummy rebounding firing pin... didn't know if the hammers would remain solid under recoil ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

July 25, 2011, 07:17 PM	#10
BrittB Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2011 Location: Oregon Posts: 554	The ejector on my single shot H&K 20 ga flings the shell about 6 feet. I would miss that if I had to disable it but for CAS I would. Last edited by BrittB; July 25, 2011 at 07:22 PM.

July 26, 2011, 01:12 PM	#16
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Thanks for all the info & tips... got one revolver question if you guys could... My Montados are very early production ( with the grooves in the grip frame ) I had heard originally they were not legal, then heard they changed the rule this year, & they are legal now ??? I have one newer grip frame ( came on my custom snubbie which I replaced with a birds head grip... not particularly intended for cowboy use ) that grip frame is not grooved... I could swap that grip frame onto one of my older Montados, & order another new grip frame for the other if I needed to ( would rather not polish out my grooves ) so older Montados legal now or not ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

July 25, 2011, 05:44 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	CAS shotgun targets are pretty close 50 FEET would be a lot around here. Mostly splatter plates, but there are some knockdown targets. A cylinder bore pattern will handle them; it pretty well has to, so many shooters use wide open "coach guns" like your sawn off scattergun. (Us big tough cowboys don't call them "shotties." Kind of like extending your pinkie to toss off that shot of redeye, don'cha know.) I'd leave the bead alone and see how it worked on the clock. Greatest risk on a shotgun is raising the head to get a better look at the target, which lets you see it real well as you miss. A moderately high pattern will help you fight that tendency. I wear a lightweight plaid workshirt with the sleeves rolled up for summer shoots. Short sleeves ain't Cowboy.

July 25, 2011, 05:57 PM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Mississippi Peacemakers use knock downs and sometimes poppers. The targets are about 20 ft. so no real need to aim just point and shoot. The poppers are fired from a knockdown. When the target goes over it throws a clay pigeon straight up

July 25, 2011, 06:04 PM	#7
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	I never worked with a hammer gun, maybe Hawg has something on them.

July 25, 2011, 06:33 PM	#8
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Shotgun targets around here are all knockdowns with the occasional popper that activates a bird thrower. Knockdowns generally at 20 to 25 feet. Your setup sounds pretty good. Cocking both hammers at the same time is perfectly legal. I have an 1889 Remington and a TTN that I can cock both hammers with the palm of my hand or one thumb. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

July 25, 2011, 07:07 PM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	If your gun has ejectors(not likely) they're not allowed, you'll have to disable them. You can polish the chambers and wax your shells(smooth sided) and a flick of the wrist will send them sailing like it has ejectors.

July 25, 2011, 07:54 PM	#11
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	For you would be gamers check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1BwUJ4--Qw

July 25, 2011, 10:50 PM	#13
SG29736 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Location: Northern Ca. Posts: 107	You stage your shotgun, action open and empty, with the hammers cocked. There are a few different techniques used to cock the hammers as you are reloading for the 3rd and 4th shots. Some guns won't allow you to cock the right hand hammer with the action open because the release lever bumps up against the right hammer. Mark

July 26, 2011, 09:17 AM	#14
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	To answer the question of "what does it take to take down a knock down", we have a Buckaroo that takes them down with a 410 with 3/4 oz of shot.

July 26, 2011, 11:56 AM	#15
Tanker6 Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 193	My buckerette takes our 20-25 ft. knockdowns down (faster than I do ) with her 18.5" 1897 Winchester shooting Winchester AA Low Recoil, Low Noise shells (980 fps w/ no. 8 shot) or shells that I reload to the same/similar specs. I don't shoot a hammer gun, but I want to (and will when I find the right deal). Watch some of the "good" hammered double shooters closely. After firing the first set (and the hammers can be cocked when staged, but the barrels are open and empty), they bring their front hand back along the top of the SG, cock both hammers and open the lever. Then, while reaching for their next two shells, they pull the SG back towards them to shuck the shells. It really is quite amazing when you watch someone who has the technique down well. I shoot with a fella who uses a hammered double and he can hit four targets in just over 4 seconds. I'd be lucky to do it in 10.

July 26, 2011, 01:16 PM	#17
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	I don't know but I doubt anybody will notice or care your first time out or even your first season.

July 26, 2011, 01:17 PM	#18
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	When I was still involved in it Montados were only legal for mounted shooting. Fingers can tell you but you can go here and get all your questions answered just by lurking. If you decide to join in better have a thick skin, some of these guys are touchy and short fused. http://sassnet.com/forums/

July 26, 2011, 02:01 PM	#19
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	From the handbook: • No portion of the grip frame may be checkered, stippled, serrated or otherwise modified to constitute a grip enhancement. They would not be legal Revolvers with Montado hammers were approved though. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

July 26, 2011, 02:06 PM	#20
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Ah... that was the change this last year... thanks I'll have to order another grip frame... suppose I could use my 32 Mag single six for a 2nd revolver until I get the other grip ordered & changed out ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

July 26, 2011, 07:51 PM	#22
Crunchy Frog Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2008 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 591	I think Ruger now makes the Montado sans grooves so it's legal for "ground" shooters. I bet your local club could care less but ask. I've heard of folks filling the grooves with epoxy or sanding off the grooves.

July 28, 2011, 12:06 AM	#23
William Gilmore Member Join Date: May 6, 2011 Location: N. CA Posts: 20	If you use light loads like the AA you will get a number of misses out here. We use poppers with red paint on the bottom. If the scorer doesn't see red its a miss. Even if you hit it it has to go all the way down. They also use large heavy walled pipes (6-8") that are hard to knock down. You have to hit them square, and hard. I use federal 12 ga. #7 high base in my Win '97 with a 20" barrel and a screw in full choke. __________________ Choose Ye this day whom ye will serve. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.