So I "pulled the trigger" on the S&W 13-3 :) It's been around the world once r twice

TheFineLine · May 19, 2015, 04:20 PM

I picked this up yesterday. It is a Smith and Wesson Model 13-3 with a 3 inch barrel in 357mag. The bluing is 80%ish, the lockup is very tight, the trigger is fantastic, and the rifling looks as crisp as the day it came out of the factory so carried alot and fired little. At $450 I think it was a great deal and am stoked to put it in my permanent collection. The S&W historian says it was made in 1987 and shipped to Parker Hale LTD in England. From research and assistance from others we have determined that some of the import proofs are England, Belgium, and US re-import. Anyone here a proof mark aficionado?

the red is a reflection of the desk

Skeets · May 19, 2015, 07:35 PM

I followed your thoughts up to purchase.Congrats,and I'll read along asTFL experts answer your questions.

MrBorland · May 19, 2015, 08:36 PM

I'm no expert, so others ought to chime in, but the crowned L is likely Belgian, and looks like their "ammunition control" proof:
http://www.thegungeek.com/SGP/viewto...p?f=62&t=13556

The starred Y and underscored P are then likely Belgian date codes. If so, the starred Y indicates Delsaux Francois was the controller of date codes from 1974 to 1996, and the underscored P indicates a proof date of 1988, both of which are consistent with the age of your gun:
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

If it was initially shipped to England, it likely went quickly to Belgium. If it then went to France, the lettering above might be a French import stamp, but I can't make the letters out. I'm guessing it then came back to the US via Fairfax, VA.

TheFineLine · May 19, 2015, 09:56 PM

Those are great finds Mr. Borland. It was proposed on another thread that the star was a french import marking. On that same thread this came up, " John M. Appleton Company of Fairfax, Virginia, was an importer of British firearms in the early 2000's." So that is possibly what the top left mark is instead of the proposed Taiwanese. Also stated, "The cursive "L" in a circle with a flaming bomb on top is Liege, Belgium. That, I'm certain. It's a major port of entry into the EU and you see that proof on most every S&W that's taken a European vacation" Those comments along with your date marking references nail it down. Thanks!

Carmady · May 19, 2015, 10:51 PM

I'd guess the "FFX. VA" in the last pic stands for Fairfax, Virginia.

Model12Win · May 19, 2015, 11:06 PM

Dude!

You just bought one of my dream guns!!!

A 3" model 13 round butt is on my bucket list. All I have to say is, NNNOOOOIIIICCCCEEE!!!!!!

SaxonPig · May 20, 2015, 06:53 AM

Europeans love to stamp guns. I assume the number on the frame suggests it went to a police agency. If sent to England that makes sense as those people became sheep long ago regarding personal weapons. I am always surprised when a handgun shipped to Europe makes it back to the US.

SaxonPig · May 20, 2015, 06:58 AM

I am a bit surprised at a 357 revolver being used in Europe.

TheFineLine · May 20, 2015, 09:16 AM

There should be 'like' buttons on here.

I'd like to find the original type grips for it. Any suggestions of where to look?

spacecoast · May 20, 2015, 08:00 PM

Wow, nice gun. I'd take it in a heartbeat at $450, probably at $600 too.

**Mike Irwin** · May 21, 2015, 05:39 AM

Interesting. I can't read the name, but it appears that the reimporter is in my town in Virginia.

FFX VA is the abbreviation for Fairfax, Virginia.

KyJim · May 21, 2015, 08:00 AM

Really nice revolver and it's always nice to have a gun with a bit of history.

I also want to obtain a three inch Model 13 at some point. I think three inch revolvers are the perfect size for waistband carry. The barrel's short enough to conceal but long enough to have a decent sight radius. Congratulations!

WVsig · May 21, 2015, 08:06 AM

Welcome. To the club... I paid a bit ore than you did. I would have bought that gun in a hot minute. Here is a pic of mine.

I also agree that FFX VA = Fairfax VA lived in the area for about 35 years.

TheFineLine · May 21, 2015, 10:18 AM

Very nice WVsig. I'm about to embark on a quest to find original type grips for it. Your bluing appears to be in a bit better shape than mine. Color me jealous.

Joe_Pike · May 21, 2015, 04:53 PM

I picked one about six years ago for $275 at a local shop. It needs original grips, too. Then I picked up its brother, the model 65 with a 3" barrel about five years ago for $359 also without original grips. Those are the only two I have ever seen in my area with 3" barrels. You have a good find there since they are pretty hard to come by (other than Gunbroker).

bedbugbilly · May 21, 2015, 05:18 PM

Very nice! I love the length of a three inch barrel - I've never run across a 13 but sure would snatch one up if I did!

HighValleyRanch · May 21, 2015, 06:22 PM

I like the looks of that 3 inch Smith!

I have a 2.5 inch model 19.

Is that 3 inch going to give much more energy from a .357 than the 2.5 inch?

Nathan · May 21, 2015, 07:05 PM

Wow! One of my MUST haves also!!!!

And a great price!

jonthirkell · June 7, 2015, 10:52 AM

I was an active pistol shooter in the UK in the 70s 80s and early 90s.

It seems likely that the Model 13 was imported into the UK for a gun club user - a few guys in my Club had Model13s. It was probably then sold onto Belgium with the handgun ban of 1996.

It was a way of getting some money back as the state only offered a compensation payment of £150.00 (for a Model 13 would be worth about, from memory, £200 - £250 at that time). Also saved a fine piece of engineering from being chucked into a Blast Furnace.

TheFineLine · June 9, 2015, 07:57 PM

Thanks for the info Jon and welcome to the forum! I love that it has seen the world and knowing where and why is great.

May 19, 2015, 04:20 PM	#1
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	So I "pulled the trigger" on the S&W 13-3 :) It's been around the world once r twice I picked this up yesterday. It is a Smith and Wesson Model 13-3 with a 3 inch barrel in 357mag. The bluing is 80%ish, the lockup is very tight, the trigger is fantastic, and the rifling looks as crisp as the day it came out of the factory so carried alot and fired little. At $450 I think it was a great deal and am stoked to put it in my permanent collection. The S&W historian says it was made in 1987 and shipped to Parker Hale LTD in England. From research and assistance from others we have determined that some of the import proofs are England, Belgium, and US re-import. Anyone here a proof mark aficionado? the red is a reflection of the desk Last edited by TheFineLine; May 21, 2015 at 10:16 AM.

May 19, 2015, 07:35 PM	#2
Skeets Member in memoriam Join Date: April 6, 2015 Location: Indiana Posts: 583	I followed your thoughts up to purchase.Congrats,and I'll read along asTFL experts answer your questions. __________________ Skeets "Over Kill Never Fails"

May 19, 2015, 09:56 PM	#4
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	Those are great finds Mr. Borland. It was proposed on another thread that the star was a french import marking. On that same thread this came up, " John M. Appleton Company of Fairfax, Virginia, was an importer of British firearms in the early 2000's." So that is possibly what the top left mark is instead of the proposed Taiwanese. Also stated, "The cursive "L" in a circle with a flaming bomb on top is Liege, Belgium. That, I'm certain. It's a major port of entry into the EU and you see that proof on most every S&W that's taken a European vacation" Those comments along with your date marking references nail it down. Thanks! Last edited by TheFineLine; May 19, 2015 at 10:02 PM.

May 21, 2015, 05:39 AM	#11
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Interesting. I can't read the name, but it appears that the reimporter is in my town in Virginia. FFX VA is the abbreviation for Fairfax, Virginia. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

May 21, 2015, 08:06 AM	#13
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	Welcome. To the club... I paid a bit ore than you did. I would have bought that gun in a hot minute. Here is a pic of mine. I also agree that FFX VA = Fairfax VA lived in the area for about 35 years. __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

May 19, 2015, 08:36 PM	#3
MrBorland Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,614	I'm no expert, so others ought to chime in, but the crowned L is likely Belgian, and looks like their "ammunition control" proof: http://www.thegungeek.com/SGP/viewto...p?f=62&t=13556 The starred Y and underscored P are then likely Belgian date codes. If so, the starred Y indicates Delsaux Francois was the controller of date codes from 1974 to 1996, and the underscored P indicates a proof date of 1988, both of which are consistent with the age of your gun: http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html If it was initially shipped to England, it likely went quickly to Belgium. If it then went to France, the lettering above might be a French import stamp, but I can't make the letters out. I'm guessing it then came back to the US via Fairfax, VA.

May 19, 2015, 10:51 PM	#5
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	I'd guess the "FFX. VA" in the last pic stands for Fairfax, Virginia.

May 19, 2015, 11:06 PM	#6
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Dude! You just bought one of my dream guns!!! A 3" model 13 round butt is on my bucket list. All I have to say is, NNNOOOOIIIICCCCEEE!!!!!!

May 20, 2015, 06:53 AM	#7
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	Europeans love to stamp guns. I assume the number on the frame suggests it went to a police agency. If sent to England that makes sense as those people became sheep long ago regarding personal weapons. I am always surprised when a handgun shipped to Europe makes it back to the US.

May 20, 2015, 06:58 AM	#8
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	I am a bit surprised at a 357 revolver being used in Europe.

May 20, 2015, 09:16 AM	#9
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	There should be 'like' buttons on here. I'd like to find the original type grips for it. Any suggestions of where to look?

May 20, 2015, 08:00 PM	#10
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	Wow, nice gun. I'd take it in a heartbeat at $450, probably at $600 too.

May 21, 2015, 08:00 AM	#12
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	Really nice revolver and it's always nice to have a gun with a bit of history. I also want to obtain a three inch Model 13 at some point. I think three inch revolvers are the perfect size for waistband carry. The barrel's short enough to conceal but long enough to have a decent sight radius. Congratulations!

May 21, 2015, 10:18 AM	#14
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	Very nice WVsig. I'm about to embark on a quest to find original type grips for it. Your bluing appears to be in a bit better shape than mine. Color me jealous.

May 21, 2015, 04:53 PM	#15
Joe_Pike Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2010 Posts: 1,581	I picked one about six years ago for $275 at a local shop. It needs original grips, too. Then I picked up its brother, the model 65 with a 3" barrel about five years ago for $359 also without original grips. Those are the only two I have ever seen in my area with 3" barrels. You have a good find there since they are pretty hard to come by (other than Gunbroker). __________________ Stay Groovy

May 21, 2015, 05:18 PM	#16
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Very nice! I love the length of a three inch barrel - I've never run across a 13 but sure would snatch one up if I did! __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

May 21, 2015, 06:22 PM	#17
HighValleyRanch Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2005 Posts: 4,066	I like the looks of that 3 inch Smith! I have a 2.5 inch model 19. Is that 3 inch going to give much more energy from a .357 than the 2.5 inch? __________________ From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"

May 21, 2015, 07:05 PM	#18
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,326	Wow! One of my MUST haves also!!!! And a great price!

June 7, 2015, 10:52 AM	#19
jonthirkell Junior Member Join Date: September 4, 2014 Posts: 5	I was an active pistol shooter in the UK in the 70s 80s and early 90s. It seems likely that the Model 13 was imported into the UK for a gun club user - a few guys in my Club had Model13s. It was probably then sold onto Belgium with the handgun ban of 1996. It was a way of getting some money back as the state only offered a compensation payment of £150.00 (for a Model 13 would be worth about, from memory, £200 - £250 at that time). Also saved a fine piece of engineering from being chucked into a Blast Furnace.

June 9, 2015, 07:57 PM	#20
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	Thanks for the info Jon and welcome to the forum! I love that it has seen the world and knowing where and why is great.