Trigger mods for S&W L frame ?

hounddawg · February 28, 2012, 08:03 AM

other than installing a Wolfe spring kit what do you guys recommend for lightening the trigger pull on a L Frame S&W ? The gun is coming up on it's 25th bday but for the last 20 of those it not been shot until last Sunday. Last evening I did take the side plate off last evening and cleaned out the dried grease/oil and relubed the action and cylinder assembly but still have not ordered the spring kit or done anything other than look around w/o taking anything out

The trigger pull itself is very smooth already even before I cleaned and relubed, it is just a bit stiff on the DA side. I am planning on shooting the ICORE classic division in weekend club matches. So far only modification I have on the way is a set of Hogue wraparound rubber grips to replace the plastic Pachmayers. Next step will be the spring kit and a copy of THE S&W REVOLVER - A SHOP MANUAL and any other low cost mods you guys can suggest. Is there anything else a fair to middlin garage gunsmith should be consider doing without dropping major bucks into a hobby gun?

Japle · February 28, 2012, 09:05 AM

Get Jerry Miculek's DVD on doing an action job.

In addition to what's on the DVD, polish the inside of the frame where the rebound slide rides.

carguychris · February 28, 2012, 09:27 AM

If the gun will only be used as a range toy, an easy trick is to replace the strain screw with a readily available socket-head 8-32x1/2 set screw from your friendly local hardware store. This will allow you to tune the trigger pull weight without making irreversible changes to the strain screw.

You may need to file the screw to length, and if the end is pointed, you should file or Dremel it down so it's blunt and won't damage the mainspring. Once you find a good balance point between light strikes and a lightened trigger pull, purple Loctite will help hold the screw in place so it won't shoot loose.

Loctite or not, I would NOT recommend doing this to a defensive revolver, due to the possibility that the screw will loosen and cause a light strike at the worst possible moment.

Keep in mind that shortened strain screws and lighter mainsprings will inherently increase the likelihood of light strikes. Competitors who drastically lighten their DA triggers using these methods often have to use handloads with very soft (i.e. Federal) primers to ensure reliable ignition. Companies offer longer firing pins to help mitigate this problem, but I regard this as a Band-Aid fix since these pins will increase the chances of pierced primers if you revert to a close-to-stock spring setup. Also, your L frame is old enough that it should have a hammer-mounted firing pin, so replacing the pin will require gunsmith fitment.

You should be cautious with spring kits depending on what type of competition shooting you intend to do. Lighter rebound springs are nice for paper punching, but for rapid-fire competition like IDPA, the trigger may cycle too slowly. FWIW Jerry Miculek reportedly uses a lighter mainspring with a heavier rebound spring to ensure that the trigger cycles as quickly as possible.

hounddawg · February 28, 2012, 10:44 AM

That is interesting info Carguy. This will just be a rangetoy, I have a PPS and a 1911 that I carry and on occasion I will commandeer the wifes J frame. My CZ 75 as it sits in the safe is also unsuitable for anything except competition and plinking.

I do handload but normally use CCI 500's and 550's. Since I have about three bricks of 550's in the drawer I might just hold off on the spring mods till I shoot those up.

I was thinking of ICORE more than IDPA for this one and from what I have read and heard accuracy is more important than speed because of the penalty system. I think I may just do a bit of polishing and see how it works before dropping money on springs.

thanks - Jim

MrBorland · February 28, 2012, 11:34 AM

Beyond an action job, standard mods to any competition revolver include installation of grips that fit your hand, a fiber optic front sight and chamfering of the chamber mouths. You could also radius and polish the face of the trigger. It doesn't lighten the action, per se, but it makes the gun just feel better (to me, anyway) when running it. Consider an SDM cylinder release latch, as well. Compared to the stock latches, they're very grippy.

As far as action mods beyond a spring kit, consider bobbing the hammer. All else being equal, the lighter hammer travels faster and transmits more power to the primer. The faster hammer allows you to go lighter with the action before reliability becomes an issue. My 686 has a radically-bobbed hammer - the action's tuned to 7.5lbs, and it shoots everything it's fed, including CCI primers. As a bonus, the faster lock time, and reduced hammer jar increased it's accuracy, and it's at least as accurate as my vintage K-38 target revolver.

At 25, your gun has a hammer-mounted firing pin, so the hammer can't get bobbed as radically later guns, but it's still worth considering.

Don't go too crazy trying to get the action as light as possible. You need to get it to where you're not fighting it, but no less. Too many compromises, and you'll end up outrunning your front sight to boot.

The 2 most important things for anyone shooting a wheelgun in competition are the reloads, and accuracy. Mastering the 1st requires CompIIIs (or Jetloaders), and (most importantly) a metric ton of practice at home with dummy rounds (not commercial snap caps). The second requires good application of the fundamentals, but also a front sight you can easily & quickly see, which is why most opt for a fiber optic.

edit added: BTW, when removing the sideplate (you're not prying it off, are you?), loosen the strain screw first. Otherwise, there's a lot of tension on the hammer pin while it's only supported on one side. A broken pin's a bummer, but if it even bends a wee bit, the hammer will no longer be sitting perfectly in the right plane, and can pick up some internal friction. Kind of ironic for a gun that's been polished internally to reduce friction.

hounddawg · February 28, 2012, 01:00 PM

When I took the side plate off last night I had to do a bit of gentle prying alternating with taps from a plastic mallet because the dried oil/grease had literally glued it to the frame. Key word there is gentle, I was worried to death I would warp it but it went back fine.

Thanks for the advice on the loosening, I wasn't aware of what you just told me but I had loosened it first last night just to get the cylinder out of the way. Not sure if I want to go as radical as bobbing the hammer, I could be using a gun personally prepped by Miculek himself and I doubt I would be winning any matches.

I think I will just start gradual and shoot a match or two, then go from there. I may or may not put a spring kit on my next order from Midway/Brownells. 15 bucks is not a huge issue, even if I decide to go back to stock. The grips will be changed to Hogues, I have them on two other guns and love them. I have huge hands anyway for my size because of 30+ yeras of gym time. Grip strength is not a issue. I don't really want to get into a lot of machining such as chamfering the cylinders just yet or anything else that requires more than a 50 or so dollar fee.

On the subject of cylinder releases though. Would the Hogue cylinder release be ICORE legal for the classic division? That looks like it would really cut down on reload time.

MrBorland · February 28, 2012, 01:45 PM

Quote:

When I took the side plate off last night I had to do a bit of gentle prying alternating with taps from a plastic mallet because the dried oil/grease had literally glued it to the frame. Key word there is gentle, I was worried to death I would warp it but it went back fine.

Here's a thread showing the easiest & safest way to get the sideplate off:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=397027

Quote:

Would the Hogue cylinder release be ICORE legal for the classic division? That looks like it would really cut down on reload time.

According to the ICORE Rulebook, it ought to be legal.

As far as cutting down your reload time, it may or may not. I had one on my USPSA revolver, but went to the SDM because it worked better for me. A universal gripe about the Hogue release seems to be that the serrations are vertical, rather than horizontal. A few light passes with a dremel & a cutting wheel can easily remedy that, though.

An alternative release is made by California Competition Works. The face doesn't go back quite as far as the Hogues, and the serrations are horizontal.

Generally, any thumb latch, SDM & CC included, will speed your reloads only if it helps you not bobble the reload. Otherwise, compared to a non-bobbled reload, it's unlikely it alone will increase your reload speed. There's no secret weapon or gimmick to quick & smooth reloads beyond lots of practice.

hounddawg · February 28, 2012, 06:51 PM

Thanks for the link MrB and thanks to all for the advice. Gonna polish the inside of the case a bit tonight on a fine and extra fine diamond stone.

Japle · February 28, 2012, 08:08 PM

FWIW, my favorite front sight is the one from EasyHit. No doubt they're easier to break than the steel sights, but I haven't had a problem. They really light up in sunlight.

hounddawg · February 29, 2012, 07:33 AM

great looking gun Japle. I love that front sight and those grips are gorgeous. but that would a possible down the road improvement for me. I want to shoot 1st season with the gun pretty much stock at least in appearance. I don't want to be the FNG showing up for his first match with a tricked out $2K setup then tripping over his feet trying to reload and dropping the speedloader.

I was never all that with my 1911 in IDPA, usually finishing towards the back of the pack. My wife is better pistol shooter in the family and I am better with the long guns. But I have always loved shooting my SA revolvers and enjoy her little J frame for plinking so I am cautiously optimistic that ICORE will be more my cup of tea. Just not ready to bet the bank on it just yet though.

Starting off with this used 686, a Forbus holster, 4 comp 3 speedloaders and a couple of nylon holders for them to get my feet wet.

February 28, 2012, 08:03 AM	#1
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	Trigger mods for S&W L frame ? other than installing a Wolfe spring kit what do you guys recommend for lightening the trigger pull on a L Frame S&W ? The gun is coming up on it's 25th bday but for the last 20 of those it not been shot until last Sunday. Last evening I did take the side plate off last evening and cleaned out the dried grease/oil and relubed the action and cylinder assembly but still have not ordered the spring kit or done anything other than look around w/o taking anything out The trigger pull itself is very smooth already even before I cleaned and relubed, it is just a bit stiff on the DA side. I am planning on shooting the ICORE classic division in weekend club matches. So far only modification I have on the way is a set of Hogue wraparound rubber grips to replace the plastic Pachmayers. Next step will be the spring kit and a copy of THE S&W REVOLVER - A SHOP MANUAL and any other low cost mods you guys can suggest. Is there anything else a fair to middlin garage gunsmith should be consider doing without dropping major bucks into a hobby gun? __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

February 28, 2012, 09:27 AM	#3
carguychris Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 7,523	If the gun will only be used as a range toy, an easy trick is to replace the strain screw with a readily available socket-head 8-32x1/2 set screw from your friendly local hardware store. This will allow you to tune the trigger pull weight without making irreversible changes to the strain screw. You may need to file the screw to length, and if the end is pointed, you should file or Dremel it down so it's blunt and won't damage the mainspring. Once you find a good balance point between light strikes and a lightened trigger pull, purple Loctite will help hold the screw in place so it won't shoot loose. Loctite or not, I would NOT recommend doing this to a defensive revolver, due to the possibility that the screw will loosen and cause a light strike at the worst possible moment. Keep in mind that shortened strain screws and lighter mainsprings will inherently increase the likelihood of light strikes. Competitors who drastically lighten their DA triggers using these methods often have to use handloads with very soft (i.e. Federal) primers to ensure reliable ignition. Companies offer longer firing pins to help mitigate this problem, but I regard this as a Band-Aid fix since these pins will increase the chances of pierced primers if you revert to a close-to-stock spring setup. Also, your L frame is old enough that it should have a hammer-mounted firing pin, so replacing the pin will require gunsmith fitment. You should be cautious with spring kits depending on what type of competition shooting you intend to do. Lighter rebound springs are nice for paper punching, but for rapid-fire competition like IDPA, the trigger may cycle too slowly. FWIW Jerry Miculek reportedly uses a lighter mainspring with a heavier rebound spring to ensure that the trigger cycles as quickly as possible. __________________ "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

February 28, 2012, 10:44 AM	#4
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	That is interesting info Carguy. This will just be a rangetoy, I have a PPS and a 1911 that I carry and on occasion I will commandeer the wifes J frame. My CZ 75 as it sits in the safe is also unsuitable for anything except competition and plinking. I do handload but normally use CCI 500's and 550's. Since I have about three bricks of 550's in the drawer I might just hold off on the spring mods till I shoot those up. I was thinking of ICORE more than IDPA for this one and from what I have read and heard accuracy is more important than speed because of the penalty system. I think I may just do a bit of polishing and see how it works before dropping money on springs. thanks - Jim __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

February 28, 2012, 01:00 PM	#6
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	When I took the side plate off last night I had to do a bit of gentle prying alternating with taps from a plastic mallet because the dried oil/grease had literally glued it to the frame. Key word there is gentle, I was worried to death I would warp it but it went back fine. Thanks for the advice on the loosening, I wasn't aware of what you just told me but I had loosened it first last night just to get the cylinder out of the way. Not sure if I want to go as radical as bobbing the hammer, I could be using a gun personally prepped by Miculek himself and I doubt I would be winning any matches. I think I will just start gradual and shoot a match or two, then go from there. I may or may not put a spring kit on my next order from Midway/Brownells. 15 bucks is not a huge issue, even if I decide to go back to stock. The grips will be changed to Hogues, I have them on two other guns and love them. I have huge hands anyway for my size because of 30+ yeras of gym time. Grip strength is not a issue. I don't really want to get into a lot of machining such as chamfering the cylinders just yet or anything else that requires more than a 50 or so dollar fee. On the subject of cylinder releases though. Would the Hogue cylinder release be ICORE legal for the classic division? That looks like it would really cut down on reload time. __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek Last edited by hounddawg; February 28, 2012 at 01:05 PM.

February 28, 2012, 06:51 PM	#8
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	Thanks for the link MrB and thanks to all for the advice. Gonna polish the inside of the case a bit tonight on a fine and extra fine diamond stone. __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

February 28, 2012, 09:05 AM	#2
Japle Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: Viera, Florida Posts: 1,340	Get Jerry Miculek's DVD on doing an action job. In addition to what's on the DVD, polish the inside of the frame where the rebound slide rides.

February 28, 2012, 11:34 AM	#5
MrBorland Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,614	Beyond an action job, standard mods to any competition revolver include installation of grips that fit your hand, a fiber optic front sight and chamfering of the chamber mouths. You could also radius and polish the face of the trigger. It doesn't lighten the action, per se, but it makes the gun just feel better (to me, anyway) when running it. Consider an SDM cylinder release latch, as well. Compared to the stock latches, they're very grippy. As far as action mods beyond a spring kit, consider bobbing the hammer. All else being equal, the lighter hammer travels faster and transmits more power to the primer. The faster hammer allows you to go lighter with the action before reliability becomes an issue. My 686 has a radically-bobbed hammer - the action's tuned to 7.5lbs, and it shoots everything it's fed, including CCI primers. As a bonus, the faster lock time, and reduced hammer jar increased it's accuracy, and it's at least as accurate as my vintage K-38 target revolver. At 25, your gun has a hammer-mounted firing pin, so the hammer can't get bobbed as radically later guns, but it's still worth considering. Don't go too crazy trying to get the action as light as possible. You need to get it to where you're not fighting it, but no less. Too many compromises, and you'll end up outrunning your front sight to boot. The 2 most important things for anyone shooting a wheelgun in competition are the reloads, and accuracy. Mastering the 1st requires CompIIIs (or Jetloaders), and (most importantly) a metric ton of practice at home with dummy rounds (not commercial snap caps). The second requires good application of the fundamentals, but also a front sight you can easily & quickly see, which is why most opt for a fiber optic. edit added: BTW, when removing the sideplate (you're not prying it off, are you?), loosen the strain screw first. Otherwise, there's a lot of tension on the hammer pin while it's only supported on one side. A broken pin's a bummer, but if it even bends a wee bit, the hammer will no longer be sitting perfectly in the right plane, and can pick up some internal friction. Kind of ironic for a gun that's been polished internally to reduce friction.

February 28, 2012, 08:08 PM	#9
Japle Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: Viera, Florida Posts: 1,340	FWIW, my favorite front sight is the one from EasyHit. No doubt they're easier to break than the steel sights, but I haven't had a problem. They really light up in sunlight.

February 29, 2012, 07:33 AM	#10
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	great looking gun Japle. I love that front sight and those grips are gorgeous. but that would a possible down the road improvement for me. I want to shoot 1st season with the gun pretty much stock at least in appearance. I don't want to be the FNG showing up for his first match with a tricked out $2K setup then tripping over his feet trying to reload and dropping the speedloader. I was never all that with my 1911 in IDPA, usually finishing towards the back of the pack. My wife is better pistol shooter in the family and I am better with the long guns. But I have always loved shooting my SA revolvers and enjoy her little J frame for plinking so I am cautiously optimistic that ICORE will be more my cup of tea. Just not ready to bet the bank on it just yet though. Starting off with this used 686, a Forbus holster, 4 comp 3 speedloaders and a couple of nylon holders for them to get my feet wet. __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek