Law of Gun Fighting

kraigwy · August 20, 2009, 10:07 PM

Stolen from another sight:

Bring a gun. Preferably two guns. Bring friends with guns.

Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice.

Only hits count

The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

If your shooting stance is good, you're not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.

If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, or running.

Always cheat; Always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

Have a plan.

Have a backup plan because the first one won't work.

Flank your advesary when possible and protect your own.

Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you're going to get.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun. Make sure they have to beat you to death with it because its empty.
__________________

hogdogs · August 20, 2009, 10:20 PM

Kraigwy, Old but true...
The only thing I can add is... you are a dollar down if the opponent knows he is in a gun fight...
Keeping my friends close and enemies closer really sets the pace....
Brent

Kyo · August 20, 2009, 10:36 PM

I don't agree with keeping my enemies closer.

MLeake · August 20, 2009, 10:37 PM

... is to keep tabs on them. When you can't see what they are doing, they are more dangerous.

It doesn't mean you invite them over for fava beans and a nice chianti...

**JohnKSa** · August 20, 2009, 10:42 PM

First rule of gun fighting.

If you can avoid a gun fight then avoid it. There is no better possible outcome than being where bullets are not flying.

SRT · August 20, 2009, 10:56 PM

The Law sounds like the sage and vintage preaching of Brother Clint Smith!

BlackFeather · August 20, 2009, 10:59 PM

Quote:

It doesn't mean you invite them over for fava beans and a nice chianti...

I disagree...

Nnobby45 · August 20, 2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

First rule of gun fighting.

If you can avoid a gun fight then avoid it. There is no better possible outcome than being where bullets are not flying.
__________________

That's true enough, but the training many of us have gone thru applies when avoidance is no longer an option, which is what, I believe, is the context for the above mentioned rules.

Quote:

When you can't see what they are doing, they are more dangerous.

Yes, for example, in certain political situations, you make your chief political rival Secty of State and then strip her of power by appointing special representatives to handle those foreign affairs that would normally be her job. Brilliant move.

In other contexts, say, where there could be physical danger, you wouldn't want them near you.

Clever phrases don't always take different contexts into account.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

hogdogs · August 20, 2009, 11:14 PM

Okay, I can learn to eat "fava beans" like I never missed a plateful. Yep, i could eat boiled bat wings so long as it has my "enemies" gathered about. Serious as a bicuit and gravy heart attack... You gotta plan it out. Very few daily contact type folk know one tenth about me as ya'll TFL members... I mean this serious... I roll my eyes several times per day about me and my family...
Brent

MLeake · August 20, 2009, 11:40 PM

... but the "fava beans and a nice chianti" is what Hannibal Lecter chose to go with an enemy he ate for dinner.

Sorry, couldn't resist the joke.

Sefner · August 21, 2009, 08:33 AM

There is a set of motivationals with these

Here is link to the index:

http://dsfv.schnuerpel.eu/rules/

Madcap_Magician · August 21, 2009, 09:20 AM

First rule of gun fights is to be somewhere else when they start.

AirForceShooter · August 21, 2009, 09:36 AM

If you draw it, Shoot it.

AFS

**OldMarksman** · August 21, 2009, 11:22 AM

Quote:

If you draw it, Shoot it.

Careful with that--someone may believe it.

Do not draw unless you are justified--state laws vary. Do not shoot unless the justification remains.

If the threat dissipates, do not shoot.

Back to the "rules"--they sound to me like a prescription for a tactical encounter by sworn professionals. A civilian may protect himself from imminent danger when immediately necessary, and in most places he or she may lawfully equip himself or herself to do it, but he is not permitted to "bring" a gun "to a gunfight."

The best strategy is non-attendance.

Failing that, the next step is to produce the weapon when and only when justified and very quickly.

If that does not work, shoot effectively before it's too late--again, assuming justification. Know the law and be able to shoot.

And do not hit anyone at whom you did not intend to aim.

Probably only the last two apply to sworn professionals engaging a miscreant already doing violent harm.

skidmark · August 21, 2009, 12:05 PM

"sight" is what you peer through to see if you have a chance of hitting it.

"site" is the place on the interwebs where you found whatever it is you were trying to tell us about.

This message has been brought to you by The Spelling Nazi. (See Rule 12)

stay safe.

skidmark

Double Naught Spy · August 21, 2009, 06:54 PM

The first rule of the rules or laws of gunfighting is that the rules are pretty much garbage, depending on one's situation. Most of the rules, aren't rules at all, but somebody's nifty little cutesy sayings.

Bring a gun. Preferably two guns. Bring friends with guns.
I ain't going if I know there is going to be a fight.

Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice.
Let me get back with you after the OKC Pharmacy shooting matter is resolved.

Only hits count
No, misses are often quite effective but can't be relied upon to matter.

The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
Not if you are talking about the bullets being shot at you.

If your shooting stance is good, you're not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.
Cute, but hardly true as alluded to in Sefner's post.

If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.
Long guns are difficult to use effectively in extremely tight quarters and hence are not always the preferred best weapon.

If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, or running.
Complete nonsense, especially if you are outnumbered, behind cover, hiding, and out of ammo.

Always cheat; Always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
The OKC Phramacist cheated. He ain't going to win battle even if he did "win" the fight.

Have a plan.
A nice general idea that hardly works for every situation.

Have a backup plan because the first one won't work.
Given changing circumstances, it is hard it enough to have 1 plan for every potential circumstance, much less two.

Flank your advesary when possible and protect your own.
If you are protecting one flank by yourself, then it is very tough to protect the other.

Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
This all depends on how bad the situation goes to hell.

The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you're going to get.
Not necessarily.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun. Make sure they have to beat you to death with it because its empty.
That assumes you have correct and total control of the multiples of guns you were bringing to this fight as noted above. The more guns you bring, the more power you have but also the more power you must fight to keep within your realm of control.

This was added later...
If you draw it, Shoot it.
This is just an absolutely stupid statement.

Since the claim is being made that some of us can't avoid situations where there will be fights, then if there was going to be a first rule of a gun fight, I would say that it should be to NOT GET SHOT.

Edward429451 · August 21, 2009, 07:37 PM

(Have you ever agreed with anyone about anything?)

Damn. LOL.

w_houle · August 21, 2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

First rule of gun fighting.

If you can avoid a gun fight then avoid it. There is no better possible outcome than being where bullets are not flying.

I believe Sun Tsu said that there is nothing more difficult than armed conflict.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sefner

There is a set of motivationals with these

Just so long as you don't try to apply Rule #34

kraigwy · August 21, 2009, 09:37 PM

I think too many missed the point of my post.

IT WAS POSTED AS A JOKE

Skan21 · August 21, 2009, 10:42 PM

Don't worry man! I thought it was funny anyway. And I've actually BEEN in firefights, so I actually know how true most of those are.

Nnobby45 · August 21, 2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

The first rule of the rules or laws of gunfighting is that the rules are pretty much garbage, depending on one's situation. Most of the rules, aren't rules at all, but somebody's nifty little cutesy sayings.

In order to criticize what was basically meant as humor, you've completely changed the context of many of the "rules"----to what purpose?

Dr Raoul Duke · August 21, 2009, 11:40 PM

This whole thing is "Mall Ninja" horse apples, because there are no "laws" or "rules" when it comes to a gun fight, other than the basic one of "have a gun". The rest is just silly.

Dr. Raoul Duke
Gonzo Forever

OldShooter · August 22, 2009, 12:10 AM

Kraigway, I got it of course and I've seen it posted before and enjoyed it every time. Some people take themselves way too seriously, no matter how many thousand posts they have to their credit.

Skan21 · August 22, 2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

This whole thing is "Mall Ninja" horse apples, because there are no "laws" or "rules" when it comes to a gun fight, other than the basic one of "have a gun".

Not to beat on ya Doc, but that's not true. There really are rules. I've applied most of those rules. I just didn't know someone had made them "rules".

1. Bring a gun. Preferably two guns. Bring friends with guns.
In the Army, I was taught not to actually engage in a fight unless we outnumbered the enemy 3 to 1. Approximately of course. And everyone in my squad had guns. and lots of ammo. And generally a pointy steel thing, mine was a CRKT Ultima, just in case.

2.If your shooting stance is good, you're not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.
True. Covering fire is your friend, and I tried as hard as I could to stay un-perforated. I didn't set up perfectly every time. I mostly missed. But that's war.

3.If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.
My M-4 was not overly long, and I effectively cleared houses with one. Same with a SAW. Long guns, unless you are in a crawl space, are your friends.

4.Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
Nov 19 2005. 2 soldiers died because we ignored this rule, once. We never did it again.

5.Always cheat; Always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'. The guy who made this set of rules wasn't talking about a CCW cowboy. He was talking about combat.

6.Someday someone may kill you with your own gun. Make sure they have to beat you to death with it because its empty.
That's what 3 round burst is for. Damn sure nobody is capturing me. Back in '05 captured people were getting their heads cut off.

7. If you draw it, shoot it.
No defense for that. That's just stupid.

BlackFeather · August 22, 2009, 05:08 AM

Oh come on there is /b/tards here too?...cant escape dammit... and yeah ofcourse I got the fava bean joke... its a classic... aside from the jokes... its a joke.

August 20, 2009, 10:07 PM	#1
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Law of Gun Fighting Stolen from another sight: Bring a gun. Preferably two guns. Bring friends with guns. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Only hits count The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss. If your shooting stance is good, you're not moving fast enough or using cover correctly. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, or running. Always cheat; Always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose. Have a plan. Have a backup plan because the first one won't work. Flank your advesary when possible and protect your own. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you're going to get. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun. Make sure they have to beat you to death with it because its empty. __________________ __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

August 20, 2009, 10:37 PM	#4
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	The idea of keeping your enemies closer... ... is to keep tabs on them. When you can't see what they are doing, they are more dangerous. It doesn't mean you invite them over for fava beans and a nice chianti...

August 20, 2009, 10:42 PM	#5
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,990	First rule of gun fighting. If you can avoid a gun fight then avoid it. There is no better possible outcome than being where bullets are not flying. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

August 20, 2009, 11:40 PM	#10
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Blackfeather caught it... ... but the "fava beans and a nice chianti" is what Hannibal Lecter chose to go with an enemy he ate for dinner. Sorry, couldn't resist the joke.

August 21, 2009, 06:54 PM	#16
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	The first rule of the rules or laws of gunfighting is that the rules are pretty much garbage, depending on one's situation. Most of the rules, aren't rules at all, but somebody's nifty little cutesy sayings. Bring a gun. Preferably two guns. Bring friends with guns. I ain't going if I know there is going to be a fight. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Let me get back with you after the OKC Pharmacy shooting matter is resolved. Only hits count No, misses are often quite effective but can't be relied upon to matter. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss. Not if you are talking about the bullets being shot at you. If your shooting stance is good, you're not moving fast enough or using cover correctly. Cute, but hardly true as alluded to in Sefner's post. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun. Long guns are difficult to use effectively in extremely tight quarters and hence are not always the preferred best weapon. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, or running. Complete nonsense, especially if you are outnumbered, behind cover, hiding, and out of ammo. Always cheat; Always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose. The OKC Phramacist cheated. He ain't going to win battle even if he did "win" the fight. Have a plan. A nice general idea that hardly works for every situation. Have a backup plan because the first one won't work. Given changing circumstances, it is hard it enough to have 1 plan for every potential circumstance, much less two. Flank your advesary when possible and protect your own. If you are protecting one flank by yourself, then it is very tough to protect the other. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH. This all depends on how bad the situation goes to hell. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you're going to get. Not necessarily. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun. Make sure they have to beat you to death with it because its empty. That assumes you have correct and total control of the multiples of guns you were bringing to this fight as noted above. The more guns you bring, the more power you have but also the more power you must fight to keep within your realm of control. This was added later... If you draw it, Shoot it. This is just an absolutely stupid statement. Since the claim is being made that some of us can't avoid situations where there will be fights, then if there was going to be a first rule of a gun fight, I would say that it should be to NOT GET SHOT. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

August 20, 2009, 10:20 PM	#2
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Kraigwy, Old but true... The only thing I can add is... you are a dollar down if the opponent knows he is in a gun fight... Keeping my friends close and enemies closer really sets the pace.... Brent

August 20, 2009, 10:36 PM	#3
Kyo Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Posts: 897	I don't agree with keeping my enemies closer.

August 20, 2009, 10:56 PM	#6
SRT Junior Member Join Date: July 5, 2001 Posts: 4	The Law sounds like the sage and vintage preaching of Brother Clint Smith!

August 20, 2009, 11:14 PM	#9
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Okay, I can learn to eat "fava beans" like I never missed a plateful. Yep, i could eat boiled bat wings so long as it has my "enemies" gathered about. Serious as a bicuit and gravy heart attack... You gotta plan it out. Very few daily contact type folk know one tenth about me as ya'll TFL members... I mean this serious... I roll my eyes several times per day about me and my family... Brent

August 21, 2009, 08:33 AM	#11
Sefner Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 769	There is a set of motivationals with these Here is link to the index: http://dsfv.schnuerpel.eu/rules/

August 21, 2009, 09:20 AM	#12
Madcap_Magician Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2009 Location: MN Posts: 668	First rule of gun fights is to be somewhere else when they start.

August 21, 2009, 09:36 AM	#13
AirForceShooter Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Sarasota (sort of) Florida Posts: 1,296	If you draw it, Shoot it. AFS

August 21, 2009, 12:05 PM	#15
skidmark Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2005 Location: Richmond VA - home of a street full of second-place trophies. Posts: 151	"sight" is what you peer through to see if you have a chance of hitting it. "site" is the place on the interwebs where you found whatever it is you were trying to tell us about. This message has been brought to you by The Spelling Nazi. (See Rule 12) stay safe. skidmark

August 21, 2009, 07:37 PM	#17
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	(Have you ever agreed with anyone about anything?) Damn. LOL.

August 21, 2009, 09:37 PM	#19
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I think too many missed the point of my post. IT WAS POSTED AS A JOKE __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

August 21, 2009, 10:42 PM	#20
Skan21 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2009 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 463	Don't worry man! I thought it was funny anyway. And I've actually BEEN in firefights, so I actually know how true most of those are. __________________ "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."- Robert Heinlein Some of you guys need to trade in a few of those Safe Queens and see if you can get a good deal on a Sense of Humor.- Me

August 21, 2009, 11:40 PM	#22
Dr Raoul Duke Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: On the Left Coast of North America Posts: 104	This whole thing is "Mall Ninja" horse apples, because there are no "laws" or "rules" when it comes to a gun fight, other than the basic one of "have a gun". The rest is just silly. Dr. Raoul Duke Gonzo Forever

August 22, 2009, 12:10 AM	#23
OldShooter Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 846	Rules Kraigway, I got it of course and I've seen it posted before and enjoyed it every time. Some people take themselves way too seriously, no matter how many thousand posts they have to their credit.

August 22, 2009, 05:08 AM	#25
BlackFeather Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2009 Location: West Coast Posts: 450	Oh come on there is /b/tards here too?...cant escape dammit... and yeah ofcourse I got the fava bean joke... its a classic... aside from the jokes... its a joke. __________________ "Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men." - Miyamoto Musashi [Insert random irrelevant religious quote here]