Female - Pistol or Revolver??

[Jim Watson]

Be interesting if you would publish those secret techniques to the world.

[easyG]

The trigger pull will be a non-issue for most and if she has a problem with it, pm me and I can show you a couple of techniques she can use.

No, the heavy trigger pull of the typical revolver is a real problem for alot of shooters, especially for those with weak hands and weak fingers (alot of women and alot of elderly folks fall in this category).
My father, before he passed away at age 70, had trouble shooting my .38 Taurus in DA mode, as does my wife.

SA...no problem.

[Lurper]

No, the heavy trigger pull of the typical revolver is a real problem for alot of shooters, especially for those with weak hands and weak fingers (alot of women and alot of elderly folks fall in this category).

Only if they are not properly trained. As a top competitive shooter, certified instructor, professional trainer and consultant for more than twenty years, I have only met a few people who could not pull a DA trigger. There are several options depending on the student's particular situation. The easiest of course is to teach them to fire single action.

[easyG]

Only if they are not properly trained.

SA...yes.

DA using both hands with both index fingers on the trigger....maybe.

But shooting the typical stock revolver, double action, with old and weak and arthritic fingers is not something that anyone is going to want to do.
And it's certainly not something that anyone is going to want to practice.

[gb_in_ga]

No, the heavy trigger pull of the typical revolver is a real problem for alot of shooters, especially for those with weak hands and weak fingers (alot of women and alot of elderly folks fall in this category).
My father, before he passed away at age 70, had trouble shooting my .38 Taurus in DA mode, as does my wife.

SA...no problem.

SA...yes.

DA using both hands with both index fingers on the trigger....maybe.

But shooting the typical stock revolver, double action, with old and weak and arthritic fingers is not something that anyone is going to want to do.
And it's certainly not something that anyone is going to want to practice.

Which is pretty close to the truth. As I've been pointing out, I've been dealing this issue with SWMBO. It turns out that she prefers to shoot her model 15 SA (she has no problem with the hammer). And I'm always stressing to her that she needs to do some practice DA, since that is how she'll be shooting it should push come to shove. She grumbles and shoots a few rounds DA and then switches back to SA. And that is with an old, '60's era DA that is very well broken in -- light and smooth as butter.

It is probably the best I can expect from her.

I also pointed out that should it come down to it, in the heat of battle the last thing she'll be concerned with is whether her fingers hurt from pulling the DA trigger. Same thing with the extra recoil of the +P SD ammo. Adrenaline will take over. She grudgingly accepts this.

I'd still feel better if she'd do more practice DA.

[sneaky pete]

Old Sneaky here: It simply amazes me that people won't accept that Brain shots will kill people--if the brain becomes srambled by a .22 LR/HP bouncing around inside the skull cavity IT'S ALL OVER !! There isn't even any motor reflexes left. If an attacker is running toward you the only thing that keeps his forward motion going is inertia and that will be vectoring downward because of gravity. Anyone that has hunted and got a brain shot knows that the animal will NOT continut running untill it bleeds out -it will drop in it's tracks. Granted head shots are more difficult than center body shot but that's what practice is for, and .22LRs are easy to practice with. The origional post said that the lady was from the country and was familliar with guns. For me the answer is --practice-practice--practice---shot placement--shot placement--shot placement. You do your part and let the bullet do it's part.. THANX--SNEAKY

[gb_in_ga]

Old Sneaky here: It simply amazes me that people won't accept that Brain shots will kill people--if the brain becomes srambled by a .22 LR/HP bouncing around inside the skull cavity IT'S ALL OVER !!

I've never claimed that it wouldn't, other than a .22 isn't the most certain thing in penetrating heavy bone like skulls. Especially when you consider the anatomical structures that are entailed in trying to hit the Medulla Oblongata in a frontal shot, which is the real "turn 'em off" target. That's a lot of bone to go through, and takes a fairly powerful bullet to do it. Anywhere else is iffy, as is trying to do this with a small, light bullet like a .22.

The big issue, however, is that in the heat of battle the head is a harder target to hit than the COM. Especially when you figure that when the BG is moving, the COM remains relatively stationary and predictable in course, while the head does not and is not. It bobs and weaves. This is why we train to engage the COM first, and then the head if that doesn't seem to be doing the job.

[sneaky pete]

Old Sneaky here: With the above statement I couldn't agree with you more. A tour in The Nam with the Marines made your observation right on the money. However! how likely is that 54 year old lady with arthritis getting into a running gun battle ?? More than likely the odd are that it probably be some kind of mugger or car-jacker ( The comment about a CCW in the future) and the distance would likely be more like 10>15 feet and the mugger likely wouldn't be running around bobbing and weaving so the chance of a shot to the Face is probable. With the comment of a CCW it's obvious that she is NOT talking about "Home Invasion" Now-- a CCI Stinger or an Aguila Super Hyper Velocity with MVs of 1700.1800FPS at that distance wouldn't have any problem with penetration. Result ! one dead bad guy. I'm not trying to convince anyone that a .22LR is the end-all concealed hand gun--but they kill--actually from what I have heard it is the weapon du jour of some assassins(the Mosad) and they use silencers! OBTW I CCW with a Raven .22LR W/Stingers. My final post on the subject and THANX FOR LISTENING--SNEAKY

[jaws48]

My wife has a similar problem with hand strength...no pain, just not enough strength due to surgery for an autoloader. Her solution is a Model 36 S&W with the trigger lightened. She could not pull the trigger double action before the trigger job. The weapon is heavy enough to make recoil manageable. A bit of practice has yielded center head shots every pull of the trigger from 7 yards. I know she was just showing off to illustrate how much better shot she is than me...that's why I carry a G23 with 13 shots. She knows center of mass is better but not as intimidating as head or crotch shots.

Anyway, in my opinion (and my wife's also) the S&W J frame is a great solution.

[2Seventy]

My mother is in her 70s and has a problem with a wrist and little strength in her hands. She has shot my Glock and shoots it well but she can't reliably get the slide back so the Glock is out of the question. Not to mention the malfunction clearing training you need to know with an autoloader!

What has worked for her is a snub-nose K frame with Wolff springs and an action job. Nice and light DA trigger pull, far better sights then a J frame, rock solid reliable, and she can consistently hit what she aims at. What more could you ask for in a defense gun? High capacity is way over rated unless you're a poor shot. For defense I would go with a minimum of 38 spl. ballistics with a premium bullet for carry. Mouse guns such as 22s and 25s will kill you but are poor stoppers---the idea is 1 or 2 well placed shots will IMMEADIATELY stop the bad guy before he can do you harm. A 4" barrel may be a better choice for some.

good luck, 2Seventy

[tegemu]

All these men stating empirically what would be best for a woman, and a handicapped one at that. Would they advise a woman how to buy her shoes? Go to www.corneredcat.com , a site by a woman, for women about guns and women. It's one of the best gun sites I have ever seen, for men and women.

[Jim Watson]

You have to be careful about that single action business. An auto has a safety to engage, but if you get a revolver cocked and don't shoot, then the hammer has to be gotten down.

I know of a couple of cases like that, women who, although not elderly or arthritic, found it easier to shoot SA, and their menfolk did not insist on them learning to shoot DA for serious social purposes. So something goes bump in the night and the lady home alone checks things out... cocked revolver in hand. Not real smart right there, but one of them got away with it until the house was cleared and it was time to put the gun down. She slipped trying to ease the hammer and put a hole in the floor. The other went around a corner and something startled her enough to clench her whole hand. Her shot went through the bed.

It takes some very particular 19th century technique to manage a single action revolver with any degree of safety.

Y'all be careful, now, you hear?

[JohnKSa]

All these men stating empirically what would be best for a woman, and a handicapped one at that. Would they advise a woman how to buy her shoes?

Yup, at best, one can make a variety of suggestions based on experience and let the person choose which works best. Shouldn't make a difference that the person's a female although one might be able to make some very general asssumptions about hand size.

However, in this case there were some very specific requirements and descriptions provided which can help narrow the range of suggestions. I agree that it's a bit overmuch to state what's the BEST.

BTW, I also agree with Jim--anyone planning to use a revolver for SD and planning to shoot it SA needs to do a lot of decocking practice. FWIW, I find that when I demonstrate decocking a revolver to an inexperienced shooter they tend to draw the conclusion that SA for self-defense isn't such a good idea.

[Webleymkv]

The first thing that needs to be done is to have her try a revolver and see if she can manage the DA trigger. If she can then that is what I'd go with. I agree with the others that medium frame guns usually have better triggers than small frames so a Smith K-Frame or Taurus equivalent or a Ruger Security/Police Service/Speed Six would fit the bill quite nicely (.38 or .357 would work fine) and a DAO gun wouldn't be a bad idea. If she can't manage the DA trigger of the revolver, then John's idea for the tip-up barrel Beretta isn't a bad one. Perhaps one of the various magazine loading tools available would be a worthwhile investment. Finally, if neither option works (mind you this is your very last choice) a derringer is better than nothing. You'll have no slide to rack and no DA trigger pull though it will be much more complicated to use effectively.

[gbran]

Smith and Taurus both make lightweight .357 7 round snubbies that can easily be purse carried. She'd no doubt need to use .38's, but this is a compromise and gives some extra capacity.

[PJack]

Thank you guys! I have been traveling since I placed this post. What GREAT information!

Just to keep you filled in, I did discuss with her a .22. Personally I favor that idea. I know from experience that it kills, (I had a brother-in-law who was murdered with one shot of a .22 to the head. All those comments about the bullet bouncing around inside the skull are right on. Read an autopsy report sometime.)

Some updates, she can't pull the trigger on a D/A Smith, we tried that in the store. So she pulls the hammer first. Who ever taught her to shoot orginally taught her to thumb the hammer on a revolver with her left thumb. She tried to thumb the hammer but ended up using both hands.

Ok I have a follow up question. Last night I saw on TV a special about Taurus. They showed the new tip up barrel pistol that they make. They said that they bought the original (patent or plans) from Beretta. I didn't catch the caliber.

I was wondering....Has anyone tried one of these out (I have zero experience with his little gun)? What do you think of the 380 cal.? Do you think this with a couple spare loaded mags might be a solution to this situation?

Another idea...Is this problem better served by a a multiple gun solution? Say a 20 gauge shotgun at home for personal defense, and a .22 or maybe a .380 for the car and possible future CCW?

Regarding CCW. She wants to carry in the car when she travels. But she still says she doesn't want to carry on her person. I'm still working on that one.

Once again, THANK YOU for all your very knowlegable and experienced comments. Your the best!!

I'll keep you informed on what we find and what works.

[Mantua]

Last time I went to the range, I rented an M&P 9mm for mom and the Wilson Combat QCB for me. She has Rheumatoid Arthritis in her hands, elbows and shoulders. And she prefers the .45. It's hard to guess what someone will like in a pistol, so it's best to rent 'em all and let her pick.

She might be able to pull the hammer back with the palm of her left hand while she pushes with her right. Or, a DAO semi- without a safety (like the p99 or a Glock) if someone cocks it for her beforehand.

[sarabellum]

I can sympathize with you. My mother had carpal tunnel in both hands and surgery for it. As the years have progressed she has a lot of the remaining strength in her hands. She can no longer operate the slide release on her S&W 915. Pulling the slide is too much for her. Moreover, it is hard for her to grasp the wider grip of the 915.

She does have a Rossi .38 special that works ok for her even with the loss in grip strength. But, she insists that I find her a semi-auto that she can operate.

Many things have run through my mind: S&W 3913, CZ 83/84/, etc. One model that I thought had a light recoil spring for easy cocking was the small Colt Mustang. Sadly, the Colt Mustang is no longer in production.

I would like other folks to chime in on pistols that have the following characteristics: light recoil spring, i.e. easy to cock, short distance between the left side of the grip and slide release, light trigger pull revolvers, etc.

Ultimately, it may be best for both of you to try a few models out.