Nagant Revolver

[SigP6Carry]

My Iver Johnson Sealed 8 spits like that around the cylinder. I'm not sure what that video really proves. I see what you're saying. But, I just don't see how that video proves it. The Nagant was not designed to have gas escape from between the cylinder and forcing cone, yes. But, that video doesn't really prove anything. It's a guy shooting a Nagant with (confirmed) H&R and gloves on. I've also seen people shooting them with 7.62x38r and gloves on, on youtube. I also don't see how .32ACP could be any safer to fire than H&R considering that .32 H&R and .32 ACP are within 500 CUP per SAAMI standards.

Edit: I actually found a video that seems to make both of our points.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5uvpcbEr3w

The .32 H&R seems to fire much harder out of the .32 ACP cylinder than I expected. I'm not sure if that's the issue of the .32ACP cylinder or the .32 H&R. But, it really confuses me. If they're so similar to one and other in terms of pressure, why does one behave so differently?

Also: when I get a Nagant: I think I'll get it loaded with H&R for defense and just shoot it with Nagant or .32 S&W for range time.

[Wildalaska]

And the bullet Diameter of the H&R Magnum is .312.

The 32 H&R mag is operating at 24,000 PSI. Fiocchi ammo IIRC, which is underpowered, runs at 11

Lets make it clear in terms of elemental gun knowledge you learned on Daddy's knee...you shoot the gun with the cartridge it was intended for and no other. Now there are exceptions to every rule of course, but a pistol last made in 1945 under suspect circumstances isnt one of them.

Im surely not torching off my 1913 Imperial with 32 H&R mag btw, but I digress.

Slug a nagant sometime (I have), you get bore diameters between .309 and 3.13. I use .312 soft lead slugs or even jacketed bullets because I load pathetically light AND seat for a gas seal. My loading method SWAGES the bullet down. You dont have that in an H&R mag, that bullet is wacking the forcing cone and is at the same time swelling to fit the chamber...and splitting on occasion.

But, it's common practice to one-use the .32 S&W derived cartridges (up to H&R, not the new .327) in the Nagant. I've read testimonies of people who will reload the cartridges and then for the third reload, fire them in the Nagant instead of their .32's.

Yeah well some folks leave their beer cans around after shooting too I call it laziness

You have an exotic caliber?...you load for it or use the ammo you can get and screw the cost and effort. I've read of guys making correct Nagant cases out of .223 for gods sake....


Be thankful you are not feeding a Nambu.......


WildgunscanbetoughAlaska TM

[SigP6Carry]

Well, Wild, you have me. Although, we're still talking about feeding this particular weapon ammo not intended for it.

Like I said, I may not be understanding the idea of how chamber pressure works, but... how can two different bullets, pressures so similar, have such a different effect on a gun that can "chamber" (I mean that as a verb, not a description) both have such different reactions to them?

How can two cartridges, which fire almost identically similar projectiles at almost identical powers produce such different chamber pressures. This whole thing is very confusing to me.

But, I think that my credo, concerning my Nagant once I get it, will be: load it with H&R for HD & SD and S&W & Nagant for target shooting and practice.

This might be one of those guns that we'll never truly understand, though.

[kilimanjaro]

The Fiochhi Nagant shells are available here for 50 cents each, why use high-pressure .32 loads at all? If you're splitting cases, you are damaging the cylinder walls, seems to me.

[Wildalaska]

how can two different bullets, pressures so similar, have such a different effect on a gun that can "chamber" (I mean that as a verb, not a description) both have such different reactions to them?

Dude the pressure isnt similar. The bullet diameter isnt similar. They are two different rounds.

But, I think that my credo, concerning my Nagant once I get it, will be: load it with H&R for HD & SD and S&W & Nagant for target shooting and practice.

Why? Do you REALLY think its adequate for SD? (I dont, even though mean I have had one in my truck on a playaround basis)....Have you shot one? They are a joke, a curio a last ditch military weapon. Just play with it and buy a S&W .327 fer gods sake if you want SD with a .32

Wildifyouaregoingtocarryonebetterput500plusroundsdownrangefirstAlaska TM

[SigP6Carry]

Wild, I think you misunderstand: I'd use my .44 BP as an SD gun prior to a .32 H&R loaded in a Nagant, as I have a 12 GA, 9mm, .44 BP, .22 revolver and Mosin. But, when I get my Nagant revolver, I'll keep in loaded with .32 H&R (which rivals .38spl in power) in case of needing it.

Regarding it's ability to shoot H&R, I'll concede that it may not be ideal to fire hundreds upon hundreds of rounds of H&R through a Nagant each week. And when I get one, consider the issue much more thoroughly than I initially thought. But, I won't nix the idea completely.

But the issue of pressure and bullet size, though... I think the issue arises from trying compare the downloaded Fionchi to a modern .32 H&R. I'm talking about wartime 7.62x38r compared to .32 H&R.

[Wildalaska]

I'm talking about wartime 7.62x38r compared to .32 H&R.

Last time: two different cartridges, two different bullet diameters, two different pressures.

Do as you please however. Having 10 of these revolvers, having reloaded hundreds of rounds for them, shot two thousand plus rounds through them, and having studied their design leads me to conclude that folks who shoot .32 H&R in them might as well just hold a lit M80 in their hand.

And by the way, I did it once, one round, with glasses and left handed to obtain a fired round. Muzzle flash was tremendous, and recoil was stout. The case was bulged considerably and the primer backed out as well as a neck split. I had to hammer the case out.

WilddontforgettodoabullettriggerjobAlaska TM

[SigP6Carry]

Oi. I'm at a loss. How can a bullet that fire almost the same pressure as a bullet "meant" to fire in a revolver it wasn't designed for work, but the one I mean doesn't. But the bullets can be "slugged" within a thousandth or each other at the same pressure... none of this makes sense.

I think that until we have a time machine to go back to 1935 Russia, we'll never know the answer.

You can reload 30-30 and .30 Carbine and 7.62x38r carts to fire in your Nagant. But, at that point, I don't see why .32 S&W and H&R, especially reloads, can't.

edit: so that it's not mistaken, this is my concession. I'm probably wrong, having only handled and discussed, never firing, the firearm in question. All sources lead me to believe that .32 S&W short, long and H&R work just fine in these, but I have no first hand experience. So, I concede on it.

edit 2: I think Russian guns are the most confusing things ever....

[Cheapshooter]

On another forum that is dedicated to C&R firearms, there was much talk in the past about 32 Long and 32 H&R (it's not REALLY magnum) being used in the 1895 Nagant. Many posts of people using it without problems. No posts of devastating results as some here has mentioned being possible. The 327 Federal Magnum IS a magnum, and therefor agreed do be dangerous in the Nagant.
Where in most cases, only the ammunition designated for a particular firearm should be used, the 1895 has proven to be an exception.
That being said, the use of other than the 7.62X38R ammunition in the Nagant was when the 32 S&W Long and even 32 H&R were closer to 25-30 cents per round, and the 7.62X38 if you could find it was 75 cents to 1$ per round.
As more or the Nagants have been sold, more ammunition is being made for them. Like the 9X18 since the Makarov and CZ82 pistols have become popular.

[Wildalaska]

On another forum that is dedicated to C&R firearms, there was much talk in the past about 32 Long and 32 H&R (it's not REALLY magnum) being used in the 1895 Nagant. Many posts of people using it without problems. No posts of devastating results as some here has mentioned being possible.

Im a member over there and have seen that debate....while .32 S&W is accepted as an exception (usually with scotch tape to make it fit), the H&R is not among those who truly understand these revolvers.

Measure the throats of 10 of them some time


WildfromdifferenterasAlaska ™

[SigP6Carry]

I think that what we have to agree on, with this, is: let's disagree. There are a lot of testimonials to different experiences. Conflicting numbers... and I guess the one thing we forgot: variations in the weapons themselves. And it could be that some guns will fire .32 H&R without a single hiccup, while others: the gas may cut it and the cartridges may expand and split terribly.

No hard feelings from me, I'll concede I may not be the best source on this one, but I've never seen any hard numbers or facts that it's absolutely terrible and should be forbidden. I'm also a bit of a rogue, too. If you want to play it safe: don't fire H&R in it.

And, yeah, I'm ******. I've come across them in stores multiple times for around $100 and under, up to about $250. And could have ordered one for $60. Now, my attitude is: if I see one in a store, in decent shape, for less than $150, I'll buy it, flat out. I waited too long. Did the same thing with my P6 and ended up paying around $400, instead of the $250 they were when they flooded the market. And now, it seems I'm also doing the same with the FEG PA-63. Damn surplus market drying it!

edit: I've also been reading up on them. Chamber pressure issues and such, and I've come to the personal conclusion that the cases splitting in the chamber is what causes it to spit so violently, while the .32ACP doesn't. Is that an apt conclusion? It's more to do with the direction of the gas' expansion, than the actual pressure of the gas?

The bullets out of the original war-time ball ammo produce the same speed with almost equivalent weight as the H&R, but the wartime Nagant rounds were slightly smaller, correct? So, the increased size of the H&R is the cause of the "increased pressure" or is it the failure of the cases?

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to get a better understanding of what exactly happens with two almost identical bullets. (once that seals the gap and one that doesn't... IS THAT what causes the difference?)