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Old March 16, 2002, 11:44 PM   #1
rotani
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Fmjsp/fmsp?

Wondering how effective a hunting load FMJSP (Full Metal Jacket Soft Point or FMSP) is? I'm looking at a .44 mag 240gr loaded to 1430fps.

The bullet's tip is mostly wrapped with the copper jacket, petaled to bend and form over the flat tip. A small area of lead is still exposed.

I'm also wondering, since FMJ's are bad to hunt with (and illegal for hunting in many states), if these are considered illegal as well. Not trusting the words "hunting load" on the box.
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Old March 17, 2002, 09:20 AM   #2
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Okay--Let's define terms here, rotani - - -

What brand of bullets are you considering? Sounds like a contradiction in terms, for, if there is any lead visible at the front end of the bullet, it is not a Full Metal Jacket. (Yeah, I know there's a lot of lead exposed at the BASE, but it is not intended to figure into the equations

If you're referring to something like the Hornady Silhouette bullets, with lead exposed in front but not intended to expand, well, this is not a SOFT point, but still is not an FMJ.

And, just for curiosity's sake, what is your intended use of these blullets? If you need DEEP penetration--Moose with a .44? It's been done, of course, but - - - - . Anyhow, you might be interested in the heavy-weight, BROAD meplat hard, HARD bullets.

240gr loaded to 1430fps is mighty warm- - - Speer shows ONE load, with H-110, doing that, but you're way up high.

Best of luck.
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Old March 17, 2002, 09:44 AM   #3
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Sounds like PMC's 240 grain TCSP (truncated cone soft point). I have two boxes of these rounds that I purchased for break in purposes. I doubt that they will expand. The jacket appears to be thick, wraps well over the leading edge of the bullet, is not skived and leaves only a small amount of lead exposed. I would not trust this for hunting anything other than paper or steel. A better choice in a non-expanding bullet would be a hard cast semi-wadcutter.
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Old March 17, 2002, 03:00 PM   #4
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It is definitely not the TCSP. I've seen those before and yes the jackets are pretty thick.

The jackets on these cover 99% of the lead. They look kinda like this:



The side view shows the jacket being crimped over the curve of the tip. The top view shows the little dot of exposed lead and the radial lines are the folds of the crimped jacket. I think I'll need to start collecting some wet phone books to see how they expand.

I'm wondering why the mfr is putting FM in front of the bullet type. Maybe they act just like them and don't expand at all.

They are probably silhouettes like Johnny said; obviously I've never seen these before... I think the box threw me off. What's kind of annyoing is that the box not only tags them as FMSP but the words "Hunting Load" is also on the box. Now that I know what I know I'm not sure if I'd use these for hunting.

Last edited by rotani; March 17, 2002 at 06:37 PM.
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Old March 18, 2002, 02:20 AM   #5
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I'm tearing out my hair, here, rotani!

PLEASE! WHAT BRAND ARE THESE MYSTERY BULLETS?

The drawing you send looks a lot like the Linebaugh (?) WFN (wide flat nose) hunting bullet, normally cast of VERY hard lead and tempered as well. Maybe someone's forming these bullets with moderately hard lead in a thick jacket or something. But, those bullets are usually much heavier than usual for the caliber--Like, 310 gr. for .44 and 330 for .45.

A brand, huh? Pretty please. Some of the staff here have some contacts in the industry and might be able to obtain some modest enlightenment, to the benefit of us all.

Best,
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Old March 18, 2002, 04:21 AM   #6
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The ones I have have a small bit more lead exposed than what is pictured above, but the crimping and meplat are the same.

Here's the link to the actual ammo for sale. It's made by Miwall.

http://www.miwallcorp.com/Merchant2/...-MN44MFMSP240P
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Old March 18, 2002, 11:56 AM   #7
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rotani---Thanks for the reply

I went to their web site, and am disappointed they don't give specs on their ammo. In your original post on this topic, you write, "I'm looking at a .44 mag 240gr loaded to 1430fps. " Is this from something printed on the box, or did you chronograph it yourself? If so, what gun and barrel length, please?

Your original drawing (very neatly done, BTW) shows an eight-segment nose, while the last one shows six. Which is your loaded ammo?

What kind of brass is used? Okay, what's the headstamp, anyway?

If the ammo were mine, I'd have to sacrafice a round to pull the bullet and then section it with the handy-dandy Dremel tool. And then file it flat and measure jacket thickness, and compare it with some other bullets. And then pesky friends could bother me with questions like, "Is jacket thickness uniform or tapered?"

Have you shot any of this ammo? How accurate does it seem.

The prices on the website are pretty good, for fifty-round boxes.

I sent Miwall an e-mail asking for a spec sheet. I'm particularly interested in their .45 Colt and .44 Special SWC loads. I ordered some specialty loaded .45 Colt 255 SWC from Black Hills last year. Shoot well but I haven't had a chance to chronograph it yet. They say it is rated at 800 fps from, I think, a 7-1/2 barrel.

Gotta go.
Best regards,
Johnny
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Old March 18, 2002, 12:37 PM   #8
rotani
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The actual ammo is six-segments.

The velocity was printed on a placard next to the ammo at the gunshow. I believe the speed is based on a 7 1/2" revolver since I asked about how they got speeds for other .44 ammo.

I don't know a whole lot about reloading (yet), but the brass sez "R * P" which I believe is Remington Peters, right?

As for the bullet I don't have all the tools needed to section it efficiently.

Have not shot this ammo yet. Yes it would be nice to chrono, but I don't have one. I'll be shooting this from a carbine with 16" barrel. Maybe the range has one that can be rented cheap.
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Old March 18, 2002, 08:45 PM   #9
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R-P is Remington Peters.
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Old March 19, 2002, 02:06 PM   #10
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Just shot a few rounds off at the 100-yard range. They were averaging 2" groups out of a 16" carbine; I think a more experienced shooter could get 1.5"
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Old March 19, 2002, 02:45 PM   #11
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OUTSTANDING!

Was this with iron sights? Heck, with a short, pistol-calliber carbine, it would be a good group with a scope.

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Old March 19, 2002, 08:08 PM   #12
rotani
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I've only been able to shoot that well thru the peep sights after a week of practice, so I put a 3-9x40 Tasco World Class on it.
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