RCBS Comp Size Die Stiff Extract

RC20 · November 28, 2015, 09:26 PM

I am doing fine with the size part, pulling the case back out is a bit stiff.

Is that normal for a Comp die (my others don't do that but they are all non comp)

Does it need lube? What kind?

condor bravo · November 28, 2015, 10:09 PM

Competition sizing dies claim to feature tight tolerances so that in itself could mandate using lube. Even with some standard die and case combinations, extraction can be more difficult than sizing. Sounds like lubing should begin to avoid a stuck case. Would recommend a heavy duty lube like RCBS case lube 2 roll-on. A more convenient to use type would be the Hornady one-shot spray on. This is a lighter duty lube but may suffice if the extraction is not extremely difficult. If lubing for the first time, which certainly doesn't seem likely, be aware of the lube denting around the shoulder that can occur especially with roll-on lubes. But I think you are familiar with that.

RC20 · November 28, 2015, 11:22 PM

I am using the Hornady spray lube, sometimes takes a bit more add on to work right but overall works well and better than the roll on type.

I tried spraying down the necks a bit and hoped it would rub on, seems like the inner mouth sizer is the culprit.

Looking for a mouth lube that does not mess with powder of course.

I am annoyed that Hornady quit selling the hand spray version as that worked better yet.

I don't have that problem with my 30-06 cases in the old RCBS regular sizing die.

condor bravo · November 29, 2015, 12:47 AM

It sounds like our usages of the Hornady spray-on are at opposite ends. I haven't found it satisfactory for general case lubing (use roll-on for that), but only use the Hornady for partial inside the neck spraying of Federal '06 cases and it does work good for that. The Fed '06 cases seem to be the worst culprit of any for requiring inside the neck lubing. Recently had to stop processing them until obtaining another can of the spray-on. Apparently your extraction is satisfactory except for inside the necks. I guess I'm not familiar with what you are calling the hand spray version.

stubbicatt · November 29, 2015, 02:30 AM

As I understand it, OP is having expander ball drag?

If so, perhaps a technique I have had some success with will help him?

Mix 6 parts ISO alcohol to 1 part Lee toothpaste tube lube in a pump spray atomizer I bought at Wally World. Get you a 1 gallon ziplock bag, squirt 4 to 6 squirts in the bag. Add maybe ⅓ of a bag of empty cases. Zip the bag shut, and roll the whole bag around between your fingers for a minute or so, and empty on a suitable surface to dry. Takes maybe 3 minutes for the ISO to evaporate leaving a nice even coating of lube in place, including some down inside the neck to ease the expander ball's passage.

I have never stuck a case using this method, unlike with the One Shot.

After they are dried, the cases do not attract dust or grit or anything, so you can store lubed unsized cases for quite a little while before sizing them. After you have loaded your cartridges a dampened microfiber cloth will remove any lube from the outside of the cases.

F. Guffey · November 29, 2015, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Does it need lube? What kind?

I have competition seater dies by RCBS. I do not have competition sizing dies.

About the part covering lube, the dies came with instructions and I did not notice what brand of die you were using. Without lube? The problem will always begin when the case is shoved into the die, and the die will want to keep the case once it is shoved into the die.

I do not have competition sizing dies, I do have dies, lots of dies. All of my dies have threads, my presses have threads. I have no problem adjusting my dies in the press to, or off and or below the top of the shell holder.

F. Guffey

Forgive,

Quote:

RCBS Comp Size Die Stiff Extract

PA-Joe · November 29, 2015, 07:34 AM

RC are you having a problem when pulling the sized case back out of the die or are you talking about the cases getting stuck in the chamber of your rifle? If the first you can spray some lube on que tip and swipe the inside of the neck. You also didn't say what ammo you were reloading.

brasscollector · November 29, 2015, 09:42 AM

I use RCBS case-lube 2 for rifle reloading. Too much sizing going on for the Hornady to be 100% reliable (stick a 'lubed' case in your sizing die and you'll change your ways..) I do still have some of the one-shot and use it for lightly lubing my pistol brass (even though I have carbide dies a little lube never hurts). The bonus for the one-shot is that is does not affect powder or primers so one can spray it on the inside+outside of the cases if desired with no ill effects.

condor bravo · November 29, 2015, 10:05 AM

Yes per stubbicatt, the problem has to be expander ball drag like I have with the Fed '06 cases and their thick necks. The Hornady one-shot works OK for that, but my application method is to hold several cases with the left hand and spray into the necks with the right, thereby getting more one-shot on the hand than inside the case necks. Can't win them all I guess. But using Pa-Joe's method of applying with a Q-tip sounds like a winner. I initially thought the OP's problem was difficulty in extracting the case from the die, so at least not a stuck case possibility.

Pa-Joe note that the OP made reference to '06 cases so perhaps he may be loading the thicker neck Fed cases as I am doing, resulting in greater expander ball drag.

RC20 · November 29, 2015, 04:24 PM

Let see if I can respond in some order.

Caliber: 308 I should have stated caliber, not necessarily relevant but it helps put in in context. Cases are RP, FC and Lapua, all stick.

Yes its the neck ball expander that seems to be the issue, sizing they go in fine.

No not a chambered round issue, in the sizer die.

F Guffey: As always his response has me scratching my head wondering if I am a newly arrived Space Alien having learned my language from Ozzie and Harriet on the way in and running into the text generation (YRMV)

StubbiCat: It sounds interesting but a lot of work. I am more into processing as quickly (and safety) as possible so I can get bullets loaded up and down to the range. Lots of brass might stockpile ahead. Never heard of Lees toothpaste lube?

The Q tip idea I like, , I did spray inside the necks with them in the tray as best I could but obviously that is not complete coverage.

I do like the Hornady as it evaporates complete.

Original One Shot came in a hand spray bottle, not the pressure can. You could get refills for it. Very nice, worked a treat and worked better than the pressure can spray setup which I still like but not as good.

condor bravo · November 29, 2015, 05:02 PM

The squeeze bottle method makes sense and easier to use. I'm always looking forward to Guffey's comments and replies and trying to figure out what deep meanings are lurking therein. Perhaps we will just never know.

RC20 · November 29, 2015, 05:19 PM

Yea the squeeze bottle was good and far more economical once you had the spray bottle bought.

I would miss F. Guffeys replies, maybe we will find his Rosetta stone someday!

ka9fax · November 29, 2015, 05:35 PM

I also use the same die, sizing .223 brass. I'm using Hornady spray lube. I was getting creaks and pops till I got things down pat. A badly stuck case was my wake up call. I will spray the lower half really good, I do not try to spray the shoulder. As I spray the neck I hold can so it also hits a bit into the neck. I used to use a q tip for each neck but letting some spray hit into the necks edge works well. I then run a lubed q tip up into the deprime resize die. I'm sure the q tip is hitting the bottom of the ball expander. No more problems, the reloader is running much smoother now.

cw308 · November 29, 2015, 07:56 PM

I have a compitition seating die , the RCBS Standard F/L Sizer. When I tried the S type bushing dies they at first seemed tighter then most, Redding advised me to use a little more lube, Even on the standard F/L die . I use Imperial sizing wax,I apply with my fingers first the case body & what ever is left on my fingers one turn on the neck. But first I add wax to a Q-tip, run it around the inside of the necks. Your cases are cleaned before you size, sorry I had to ask. Sounds like your serious into accuracy, try wrapping 0000 steel wool around the sharpend end of a pencil break the led tip off,run the wrapped wool on the inside of the neck, clean out any dust. Your bullet will seat with very little resistance. If your not loading large quantities, taking time with your case prep will give you accurate trouble free reloads.

RC20 · December 1, 2015, 10:46 PM

I resizes the cases then clean.

Something about clean cases and the Hornady one shot do not get along.

Simpler to get the messy part over and clean up, then the trim back and primer pockets.

cw308 · December 1, 2015, 11:31 PM

Cleaning the case should be the first step, Best is to remove the primer. Your looking for trouble sizing a dirty case.

F. Guffey · December 2, 2015, 11:53 AM

Quote:

F Guffey: As always his response has me scratching my head wondering if I am a newly arrived Space Alien having learned my language from Ozzie and Harriet on the way in and running into the text generation (YRMV)

Quote:

I would miss F. Guffeys replies, maybe we will find his Rosetta stone someday!

Quote:

Does it need lube? What kind?

RC20, you have worked your way all the way up to bushing dies without knowing if the case requires lube before sizing. My Rosetta? Instructions! When instructions are not read they become destructions.

You ask a question thinking it is all about you, not so. There is an outside chance there are others reading the responses that may not respond. I am limited to how slow I can type, when I hit the submit button everything comes out at the same speed.

Quote:

Is that normal for a Comp die (my others don't do that but they are all non comp)

lowering the ram after sizing a case has always required effort, to reduce the annoying factor some die manufacturers raised the sizing ball and or shortened the stem to avoid the delay of the clunk when the sizing ball was pulled through the neck.

Another problem, the sizing ball on most dies is part of the primer punch assemble. A few reloaders had to decide if they wanted to punch the primers in one step and size the neck on another.

F. Guffey

Quote:

extraction can be more difficult than sizing. Sounds like lubing should begin to avoid a stuck case.

Condo Bravo should have taken more time to respond. The part of my response that was typed to fast suggested the case will never make it into the die without lube, meaning

Condo Bravo should have know you were lubing your cases. Without lube we would be talking about removing a stuck case.

Condo Bravo stuck a case 'and then' suggested WD40. I will admit it took time for me to sort through that one.

condor bravo · December 2, 2015, 12:32 PM

Actually I have never stuck a case but have come close. Must have been someone else who mentioned the WD40.

F. Guffey · December 2, 2015, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Actually I have never stuck a case but have come close

Actually? When did you actually realize you were about to stick a case? I doubt it was when the ram was being lowered.

A shooter/reloader/collector in Central/North Pennsylvania sent me a set of dies with a stuck case in the full length sizing die. I removed the stuck case and then stuck the next 5 cases I attempted to size with the die. He purchased another die set as a replacement but, the die set belong to his dad so there was no fixing or sending the die to RCBS. I returned the die to him with a home made case puller. The die was unique and different. In my short life I have found 2 other sets, one in California and the set I have.

F. Guffey

condor bravo · December 2, 2015, 01:16 PM

Well the stuck case was about to happen when a section of the rim broke off during attempted lowering of the ram. But was able to rotate the shell holder to where it was able to grab onto the remaining rim and the case extracted on the second attempt. Or it may have been by turning the die up by a quarter turn, thereby realigning the shell holder with the remaining rim. This solution would not be expected to happen often.

cw308 · December 3, 2015, 08:44 AM

When ever I raise the ram and I feel more resistance, I lower the ram add a little more lube. You cane feel the case size much easier.

F. Guffey · December 3, 2015, 09:13 AM

CW308, Then there are different lubes, most of my work does not require anything special meaning almost any lube works. For the most difficult cases to size I use a no-name lube. Most of my most difficult cases to size belong to other reloaders that insist on using Imperial sizing or Dillon in a bottle or can. It is not easy to make that stuff look good when the die wants to keep the case.

I do my best to convenes them there are cases they need to give up on.

F. Guffey

cw308 · December 3, 2015, 04:07 PM

F Guffey, I agree 100%

GWS · December 3, 2015, 11:14 PM

I have had a similar experience as F Guffey. Imperial works fine as long as the case is normal and easy to size....and there's no excess build-up of that wax in the sizer.

But in the case of LC 7.62 machinegun brass sold to me by Wideners last summer, only two of the several lubes I had on hand were good enough.....one was RCBS II in the lube pad...the other was STP!

The two cases where I attempted to use Dillon's lanolin lube, and Imperial wax nearly stuck, and for sure stretched the H..l out of the necks. I felt lucky not to have to find my H.M. case remover, made years ago when I did manage to stick one.

Curious Master Guffey......what's your no-name recipe.

Does it by chance have any STP in it?

Fotheringill · December 4, 2015, 12:23 PM

I have the RCBS Competition dies and an RCBS case neck sizer. With both of the sizing dies and handle all the way down, when then raising the handle to drop the case out of the die, there is a slight resistance. For the neck die, I use the Imperial wax on the outside. I don't care much for the graphite powder for the inside. There has to be some residue after sizing. I will be trying the One Shot for inside and outside tonight. Nothing ever got stuck, but I don't want to find out about it after the fact.

November 28, 2015, 09:26 PM	#1
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	RCBS Comp Size Die Stiff Extract I am doing fine with the size part, pulling the case back out is a bit stiff. Is that normal for a Comp die (my others don't do that but they are all non comp) Does it need lube? What kind?

November 28, 2015, 10:09 PM	#2
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	Competition sizing dies claim to feature tight tolerances so that in itself could mandate using lube. Even with some standard die and case combinations, extraction can be more difficult than sizing. Sounds like lubing should begin to avoid a stuck case. Would recommend a heavy duty lube like RCBS case lube 2 roll-on. A more convenient to use type would be the Hornady one-shot spray on. This is a lighter duty lube but may suffice if the extraction is not extremely difficult. If lubing for the first time, which certainly doesn't seem likely, be aware of the lube denting around the shoulder that can occur especially with roll-on lubes. But I think you are familiar with that. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with?? Last edited by condor bravo; November 28, 2015 at 11:02 PM.

November 29, 2015, 12:47 AM	#4
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	It sounds like our usages of the Hornady spray-on are at opposite ends. I haven't found it satisfactory for general case lubing (use roll-on for that), but only use the Hornady for partial inside the neck spraying of Federal '06 cases and it does work good for that. The Fed '06 cases seem to be the worst culprit of any for requiring inside the neck lubing. Recently had to stop processing them until obtaining another can of the spray-on. Apparently your extraction is satisfactory except for inside the necks. I guess I'm not familiar with what you are calling the hand spray version. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with??

November 29, 2015, 09:42 AM	#8
brasscollector Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2015 Posts: 526	I use RCBS case-lube 2 for rifle reloading. Too much sizing going on for the Hornady to be 100% reliable (stick a 'lubed' case in your sizing die and you'll change your ways..) I do still have some of the one-shot and use it for lightly lubing my pistol brass (even though I have carbide dies a little lube never hurts). The bonus for the one-shot is that is does not affect powder or primers so one can spray it on the inside+outside of the cases if desired with no ill effects. __________________ He may look dumb, but that's just a disguise. -Charlie Daniels

November 29, 2015, 10:05 AM	#9
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	Yes per stubbicatt, the problem has to be expander ball drag like I have with the Fed '06 cases and their thick necks. The Hornady one-shot works OK for that, but my application method is to hold several cases with the left hand and spray into the necks with the right, thereby getting more one-shot on the hand than inside the case necks. Can't win them all I guess. But using Pa-Joe's method of applying with a Q-tip sounds like a winner. I initially thought the OP's problem was difficulty in extracting the case from the die, so at least not a stuck case possibility. Pa-Joe note that the OP made reference to '06 cases so perhaps he may be loading the thicker neck Fed cases as I am doing, resulting in greater expander ball drag. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with?? Last edited by condor bravo; November 29, 2015 at 02:33 PM.

November 28, 2015, 11:22 PM	#3
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I am using the Hornady spray lube, sometimes takes a bit more add on to work right but overall works well and better than the roll on type. I tried spraying down the necks a bit and hoped it would rub on, seems like the inner mouth sizer is the culprit. Looking for a mouth lube that does not mess with powder of course. I am annoyed that Hornady quit selling the hand spray version as that worked better yet. I don't have that problem with my 30-06 cases in the old RCBS regular sizing die.

November 29, 2015, 02:30 AM	#5
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	As I understand it, OP is having expander ball drag? If so, perhaps a technique I have had some success with will help him? Mix 6 parts ISO alcohol to 1 part Lee toothpaste tube lube in a pump spray atomizer I bought at Wally World. Get you a 1 gallon ziplock bag, squirt 4 to 6 squirts in the bag. Add maybe ⅓ of a bag of empty cases. Zip the bag shut, and roll the whole bag around between your fingers for a minute or so, and empty on a suitable surface to dry. Takes maybe 3 minutes for the ISO to evaporate leaving a nice even coating of lube in place, including some down inside the neck to ease the expander ball's passage. I have never stuck a case using this method, unlike with the One Shot. After they are dried, the cases do not attract dust or grit or anything, so you can store lubed unsized cases for quite a little while before sizing them. After you have loaded your cartridges a dampened microfiber cloth will remove any lube from the outside of the cases.

November 29, 2015, 07:34 AM	#7
PA-Joe Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: NEPA Posts: 909	RC are you having a problem when pulling the sized case back out of the die or are you talking about the cases getting stuck in the chamber of your rifle? If the first you can spray some lube on que tip and swipe the inside of the neck. You also didn't say what ammo you were reloading.

November 29, 2015, 04:24 PM	#10
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Let see if I can respond in some order. Caliber: 308 I should have stated caliber, not necessarily relevant but it helps put in in context. Cases are RP, FC and Lapua, all stick. Yes its the neck ball expander that seems to be the issue, sizing they go in fine. No not a chambered round issue, in the sizer die. F Guffey: As always his response has me scratching my head wondering if I am a newly arrived Space Alien having learned my language from Ozzie and Harriet on the way in and running into the text generation (YRMV) StubbiCat: It sounds interesting but a lot of work. I am more into processing as quickly (and safety) as possible so I can get bullets loaded up and down to the range. Lots of brass might stockpile ahead. Never heard of Lees toothpaste lube? The Q tip idea I like, , I did spray inside the necks with them in the tray as best I could but obviously that is not complete coverage. I do like the Hornady as it evaporates complete. Original One Shot came in a hand spray bottle, not the pressure can. You could get refills for it. Very nice, worked a treat and worked better than the pressure can spray setup which I still like but not as good.

November 29, 2015, 05:02 PM	#11
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	The squeeze bottle method makes sense and easier to use. I'm always looking forward to Guffey's comments and replies and trying to figure out what deep meanings are lurking therein. Perhaps we will just never know. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with??

November 29, 2015, 05:19 PM	#12
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Yea the squeeze bottle was good and far more economical once you had the spray bottle bought. I would miss F. Guffeys replies, maybe we will find his Rosetta stone someday!

November 29, 2015, 05:35 PM	#13
ka9fax Member Join Date: August 19, 2015 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 79	I also use the same die, sizing .223 brass. I'm using Hornady spray lube. I was getting creaks and pops till I got things down pat. A badly stuck case was my wake up call. I will spray the lower half really good, I do not try to spray the shoulder. As I spray the neck I hold can so it also hits a bit into the neck. I used to use a q tip for each neck but letting some spray hit into the necks edge works well. I then run a lubed q tip up into the deprime resize die. I'm sure the q tip is hitting the bottom of the ball expander. No more problems, the reloader is running much smoother now.

November 29, 2015, 07:56 PM	#14
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	I have a compitition seating die , the RCBS Standard F/L Sizer. When I tried the S type bushing dies they at first seemed tighter then most, Redding advised me to use a little more lube, Even on the standard F/L die . I use Imperial sizing wax,I apply with my fingers first the case body & what ever is left on my fingers one turn on the neck. But first I add wax to a Q-tip, run it around the inside of the necks. Your cases are cleaned before you size, sorry I had to ask. Sounds like your serious into accuracy, try wrapping 0000 steel wool around the sharpend end of a pencil break the led tip off,run the wrapped wool on the inside of the neck, clean out any dust. Your bullet will seat with very little resistance. If your not loading large quantities, taking time with your case prep will give you accurate trouble free reloads.

December 1, 2015, 10:46 PM	#15
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I resizes the cases then clean. Something about clean cases and the Hornady one shot do not get along. Simpler to get the messy part over and clean up, then the trim back and primer pockets.

December 1, 2015, 11:31 PM	#16
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Cleaning the case should be the first step, Best is to remove the primer. Your looking for trouble sizing a dirty case.

December 2, 2015, 12:32 PM	#18
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	Actually I have never stuck a case but have come close. Must have been someone else who mentioned the WD40. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with??

December 2, 2015, 01:16 PM	#20
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	Well the stuck case was about to happen when a section of the rim broke off during attempted lowering of the ram. But was able to rotate the shell holder to where it was able to grab onto the remaining rim and the case extracted on the second attempt. Or it may have been by turning the die up by a quarter turn, thereby realigning the shell holder with the remaining rim. This solution would not be expected to happen often. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with?? Last edited by condor bravo; December 2, 2015 at 06:27 PM.

December 3, 2015, 08:44 AM	#21
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	When ever I raise the ram and I feel more resistance, I lower the ram add a little more lube. You cane feel the case size much easier.

December 3, 2015, 09:13 AM	#22
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	CW308, Then there are different lubes, most of my work does not require anything special meaning almost any lube works. For the most difficult cases to size I use a no-name lube. Most of my most difficult cases to size belong to other reloaders that insist on using Imperial sizing or Dillon in a bottle or can. It is not easy to make that stuff look good when the die wants to keep the case. I do my best to convenes them there are cases they need to give up on. F. Guffey

December 3, 2015, 04:07 PM	#23
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	F Guffey, I agree 100%

December 3, 2015, 11:14 PM	#24
GWS Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2010 Location: New Mexico Posts: 688	I have had a similar experience as F Guffey. Imperial works fine as long as the case is normal and easy to size....and there's no excess build-up of that wax in the sizer. But in the case of LC 7.62 machinegun brass sold to me by Wideners last summer, only two of the several lubes I had on hand were good enough.....one was RCBS II in the lube pad...the other was STP! The two cases where I attempted to use Dillon's lanolin lube, and Imperial wax nearly stuck, and for sure stretched the H..l out of the necks. I felt lucky not to have to find my H.M. case remover, made years ago when I did manage to stick one. Curious Master Guffey......what's your no-name recipe. Does it by chance have any STP in it? Last edited by GWS; December 3, 2015 at 11:20 PM.

December 4, 2015, 12:23 PM	#25
Fotheringill Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2014 Posts: 114	I have the RCBS Competition dies and an RCBS case neck sizer. With both of the sizing dies and handle all the way down, when then raising the handle to drop the case out of the die, there is a slight resistance. For the neck die, I use the Imperial wax on the outside. I don't care much for the graphite powder for the inside. There has to be some residue after sizing. I will be trying the One Shot for inside and outside tonight. Nothing ever got stuck, but I don't want to find out about it after the fact.