got a problem

Voyager AL · October 7, 2006, 03:17 PM

loading 9mm with 4.5gr redDot, and a 125gr RNLead bullet. In my S&W 559, it fires, but doesnt always load. I thought that at 4.1 red dot, it wasnt powerful enuf to cycle the slide. It ejected fine. so I went up to 4.5. same problem. It ejects the casing, but stays locked back. So I have to manually have to rack the slide. this happens about every other shell. With factory(UMC) rounds, the gun functions perfectly. I have a OAL of 1.105, verses the factory OAL of 1.103. And my OD of the case is .376, factory is .377, so I am close with all dimensions. Any thought??

Bill DeShivs · October 7, 2006, 03:37 PM

Al
I'm not a reloader, so can't offer much here. Are you saying the slide locks back, as if the mag were empty?
Bill

Voyager AL · October 7, 2006, 04:32 PM

yes,exactly.

silicon wolverine · October 7, 2006, 05:02 PM

Is the slide making it al the way past the rim of the next round in the magazine? If not you might have them loaded too hot and the case is staying in the chamber too long from friction. Ive been loading my 9mm with like 3.6 gr red dot and a 122 gr FP lead bullet. I shoot i tou tof a glock 17, hi point C9 and 995 carbine with no problems. If you cant solve it, load a box with 6.5 grs of blue dot and a magnum primer and see if they work. Lead relaods dont seem to have the same recoil impulse as factory ammo and if your recoil spring is a bit tight it might affect it as well.

SW

Voyager AL · October 7, 2006, 06:09 PM

no, it ejects the hot round just fine. The slide is locked open, just like the mag was empty. I pull it back a tad,release it,and it loads the next round perfectly.. Baffling.Yet why does it work right with UMC loads?Oh, I AM using magnum primers...

silicon wolverine · October 7, 2006, 06:27 PM

Check and see if the slide lock is activating. Its possible your reloads have just the right recoil harmonics to activate it.

SW

Voyager AL · October 7, 2006, 07:18 PM

?? ya lost me. I have never looked on the left side to see if it IS locked. How do I keep it from activating? there isnt a spring on it,right? Thats the take-down release,correct?Thats called the Slide Stop,correct????I just looked at it, and it DOES have the stop plunger and spring. So, it SHOULDNT just bounce up..I wouldnt think...??

HSMITH · October 8, 2006, 08:39 AM

It isn't anything major, your bullet is hitting the slide stop when coming up in the magazine. Pull the top end off, put the slide stop in the frame, and then insert a loaded magazine, should be pretty easy to see.

You will need to change the OAL or the bullet to get away from this.

Voyager AL · October 8, 2006, 06:01 PM

they are CLOSE, but never hit. Can that part that intrudes into the magazine be shortened a bit?

HSMITH · October 8, 2006, 10:27 PM

Yes, it can and should be shaved a little bit with most slide stops. Same thing here, pop the top end off, put the slide stop back in. Insert an empty mag, then a loaded mag, cut the nub back until it clears the loaded round even if it is partially forward, but be sure to leave enough to catch the follower on the magazine. The rounds don't come straight up like you would think they do, they are rolling and flopping a bit until they hit the feed lips. Keep this in mind when you are grinding the nub off.

Voyager AL · October 9, 2006, 11:25 AM

Thank you for the input. I will try that tonite!

Voyager AL · October 9, 2006, 06:09 PM

well, I ended removing .030, and went to the range again. Still doing it, and 1 of the magazines doesnt hit the arm, to show its out of bullets. So, that didnt work. Any other ideas, besides sending it back to S&W with a dozen of my reloads??

Voyager AL · October 10, 2006, 09:30 AM

I think tonite I will back off the powder to 4.1 and see if it makes a difference. The 4.5 almost completely fills the case.About 1/8' to 3/16" from the top.

Voyager AL · October 10, 2006, 07:49 PM

bump...

bigsam · October 10, 2006, 09:54 PM

I had the same problem w/ lead round nose once & found that the bullet was bumping the slide lock like the follower. Mine also did not do it w/ factory ammo. I shortened the OAL by .010 & everything ran as supposed to.

HSMITH · October 10, 2006, 10:43 PM

When it locks back, have you removed the magazine and looked at the top round closely for a mark? The ammo in the magazine isn't static as it feeds up, they move around a LOT.

Voyager AL · October 11, 2006, 06:07 AM

no,HSMITH, i havent. But i will.I just figgered after removing .030, that it should have IMPROVED. It didnt. I can load a few with a deeper bullet seating., but why does the identical dimension RN lead factory load act OK?

HSMITH · October 11, 2006, 02:40 PM

The bullet shape is probably quite a bit different. I would guess that your lead bullet has a more rounded nose and the factory is more pointed. The more pointed the bullet is the farther away from the slide stop the bullet it will be in cycling.

Remember to back your charge weight down a little when you shorten the OAL.

Voyager AL · October 12, 2006, 06:41 AM

well, reducing the load and the OAL didnt work. i also ran some factory loads thru and they had the same problem. If i hold the arm dowm with my left thumb, it works fine. Might there be a spring on wrong, or weak?. I DID notice that the next bullet was always pushed forward in the magazine, not seated back in the mag. this happens with all 5 mags i have. No marks on the lead, showing where it hits the empty mag arm. I think its time to visit a gun-smith....not change my loads.
The UMC loads work 10 out of 14, the reloads 2 out of 14. Jacketed bullets worked better than lead.

Voyager AL · October 14, 2006, 03:43 PM

OK, today I had a gunsmith look at the gun. He felt the problem was in the non-S&W mags. But He also drilled a little spot on the nub that the arm detent pin sets against, to make it sorta hold there. THAT solved 99% of the problem. It seems now, on ALL the mags, that usually it locks back on the next to the last bullet, leaving one more in the mag. Not a problem, I feel good now. He also stated to actually INCREASE the OAL of the bullets, not decrease. But all in all, its working. And I thank all who replied, 'specially HSMITH, who helped me alot. Thanks guys, shoot fast....

Voyager AL · October 28, 2006, 06:12 PM

2 weeks later, I had the little indent enlarged a tad bit more, and all the bullets come out fine. All the mags act the same. Real happy with this great gun. Thanks again to all who inputed.

October 7, 2006, 03:17 PM	#1
Voyager AL Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Pittsburgh,PA Posts: 221	got a problem loading 9mm with 4.5gr redDot, and a 125gr RNLead bullet. In my S&W 559, it fires, but doesnt always load. I thought that at 4.1 red dot, it wasnt powerful enuf to cycle the slide. It ejected fine. so I went up to 4.5. same problem. It ejects the casing, but stays locked back. So I have to manually have to rack the slide. this happens about every other shell. With factory(UMC) rounds, the gun functions perfectly. I have a OAL of 1.105, verses the factory OAL of 1.103. And my OD of the case is .376, factory is .377, so I am close with all dimensions. Any thought??

October 7, 2006, 03:37 PM	#2
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	Al I'm not a reloader, so can't offer much here. Are you saying the slide locks back, as if the mag were empty? Bill

October 7, 2006, 04:32 PM	#3
Voyager AL Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Pittsburgh,PA Posts: 221	yes,exactly.

October 7, 2006, 05:02 PM	#4
silicon wolverine Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2006 Location: South dakota Posts: 674	Is the slide making it al the way past the rim of the next round in the magazine? If not you might have them loaded too hot and the case is staying in the chamber too long from friction. Ive been loading my 9mm with like 3.6 gr red dot and a 122 gr FP lead bullet. I shoot i tou tof a glock 17, hi point C9 and 995 carbine with no problems. If you cant solve it, load a box with 6.5 grs of blue dot and a magnum primer and see if they work. Lead relaods dont seem to have the same recoil impulse as factory ammo and if your recoil spring is a bit tight it might affect it as well. SW

October 7, 2006, 06:09 PM	#5
Voyager AL Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Pittsburgh,PA Posts: 221	no, it ejects the hot round just fine. The slide is locked open, just like the mag was empty. I pull it back a tad,release it,and it loads the next round perfectly.. Baffling.Yet why does it work right with UMC loads?Oh, I AM using magnum primers...

October 7, 2006, 06:27 PM	#6
silicon wolverine Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2006 Location: South dakota Posts: 674	Check and see if the slide lock is activating. Its possible your reloads have just the right recoil harmonics to activate it. SW

October 7, 2006, 07:18 PM	#7
Voyager AL Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Pittsburgh,PA Posts: 221	?? ya lost me. I have never looked on the left side to see if it IS locked. How do I keep it from activating? there isnt a spring on it,right? Thats the take-down release,correct?Thats called the Slide Stop,correct????I just looked at it, and it DOES have the stop plunger and spring. So, it SHOULDNT just bounce up..I wouldnt think...??

October 8, 2006, 08:39 AM	#8
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	It isn't anything major, your bullet is hitting the slide stop when coming up in the magazine. Pull the top end off, put the slide stop in the frame, and then insert a loaded magazine, should be pretty easy to see. You will need to change the OAL or the bullet to get away from this.

October 8, 2006, 06:01 PM	#9
Voyager AL Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Pittsburgh,PA Posts: 221	they are CLOSE, but never hit. Can that part that intrudes into the magazine be shortened a bit?

October 8, 2006, 10:27 PM	#10
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	Yes, it can and should be shaved a little bit with most slide stops. Same thing here, pop the top end off, put the slide stop back in. Insert an empty mag, then a loaded mag, cut the nub back until it clears the loaded round even if it is partially forward, but be sure to leave enough to catch the follower on the magazine. The rounds don't come straight up like you would think they do, they are rolling and flopping a bit until they hit the feed lips. Keep this in mind when you are grinding the nub off.

October 9, 2006, 11:25 AM	#11
Voyager AL Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Pittsburgh,PA Posts: 221	Thank you for the input. I will try that tonite!

October 9, 2006, 06:09 PM	#12
Voyager AL Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Pittsburgh,PA Posts: 221	well, I ended removing .030, and went to the range again. Still doing it, and 1 of the magazines doesnt hit the arm, to show its out of bullets. So, that didnt work. Any other ideas, besides sending it back to S&W with a dozen of my reloads??

October 10, 2006, 09:30 AM	#13
Voyager AL Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Pittsburgh,PA Posts: 221	I think tonite I will back off the powder to 4.1 and see if it makes a difference. The 4.5 almost completely fills the case.About 1/8' to 3/16" from the top.

October 10, 2006, 07:49 PM	#14
Voyager AL Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Pittsburgh,PA Posts: 221	bump...

October 10, 2006, 09:54 PM	#15
bigsam Member Join Date: September 23, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 25	I had the same problem w/ lead round nose once & found that the bullet was bumping the slide lock like the follower. Mine also did not do it w/ factory ammo. I shortened the OAL by .010 & everything ran as supposed to.

October 10, 2006, 10:43 PM	#16
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	When it locks back, have you removed the magazine and looked at the top round closely for a mark? The ammo in the magazine isn't static as it feeds up, they move around a LOT.

October 11, 2006, 06:07 AM	#17
Voyager AL Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Pittsburgh,PA Posts: 221	no,HSMITH, i havent. But i will.I just figgered after removing .030, that it should have IMPROVED. It didnt. I can load a few with a deeper bullet seating., but why does the identical dimension RN lead factory load act OK?

October 11, 2006, 02:40 PM	#18
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	The bullet shape is probably quite a bit different. I would guess that your lead bullet has a more rounded nose and the factory is more pointed. The more pointed the bullet is the farther away from the slide stop the bullet it will be in cycling. Remember to back your charge weight down a little when you shorten the OAL.

October 12, 2006, 06:41 AM	#19
Voyager AL Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Pittsburgh,PA Posts: 221	well, reducing the load and the OAL didnt work. i also ran some factory loads thru and they had the same problem. If i hold the arm dowm with my left thumb, it works fine. Might there be a spring on wrong, or weak?. I DID notice that the next bullet was always pushed forward in the magazine, not seated back in the mag. this happens with all 5 mags i have. No marks on the lead, showing where it hits the empty mag arm. I think its time to visit a gun-smith....not change my loads. The UMC loads work 10 out of 14, the reloads 2 out of 14. Jacketed bullets worked better than lead.

October 14, 2006, 03:43 PM	#20
Voyager AL Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Pittsburgh,PA Posts: 221	OK, today I had a gunsmith look at the gun. He felt the problem was in the non-S&W mags. But He also drilled a little spot on the nub that the arm detent pin sets against, to make it sorta hold there. THAT solved 99% of the problem. It seems now, on ALL the mags, that usually it locks back on the next to the last bullet, leaving one more in the mag. Not a problem, I feel good now. He also stated to actually INCREASE the OAL of the bullets, not decrease. But all in all, its working. And I thank all who replied, 'specially HSMITH, who helped me alot. Thanks guys, shoot fast....

October 28, 2006, 06:12 PM	#21
Voyager AL Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Pittsburgh,PA Posts: 221	2 weeks later, I had the little indent enlarged a tad bit more, and all the bullets come out fine. All the mags act the same. Real happy with this great gun. Thanks again to all who inputed.