Maximum Range of Henry, Spencer rifles

Gary L. Griffiths · March 13, 2013, 10:44 AM

I'm working on a project involving the Wickenburg Massacre of 1871, in which the attackers fired on a stagecoach with Henry and Spencer rifles, some from as little as 6' away. I figure some firing angles could be as high as 45 degrees. I will be looking for expended bullets from this incident to verify the site and for display at Arizona museums. I would greatly appreciate it if some of the ballistic gurus here could tell me the absolute maximum range of the Henry rifle firing the .44 Henry Flat rimfire cartridge, and that of the Spencer rifle firing the .56-56 Spencer rimfire. I would hate to comb any more of the desert inch by inch with a metal detector than I have to!

Moderators, feel free to move this to C&R or Firearms Research as appropriate. I chose this forum for maximum exposure to those knowledgeable of rifle ballistics.

Additional information on the archaeological exploration of the massacre site is at https://sites.google.com/site/thewickenburgproject/

Thanks for the help!

Brian Pfleuger · March 13, 2013, 11:01 AM

Well, a bit of Google-phoo tells me that the .44RF fired a 200gr Flatnose with a BC of about .153 at about 1125fps...

JBM Ballistic's maximum range calculator tells me that, at 80F, 25% Humidity and 0ft altitude, the maximum range would be 1963 yards, fired at a 35% angle.

I'll figure the other in minute or three...

Brian Pfleuger · March 13, 2013, 11:29 AM

Having some trouble locating the BC of the typical .56-56 bullet, but using a LRN with a .215BC at 1,200fps, same conditions as above, max range would be 2,533 yards, 32.5% angle.

**Mike Irwin** · March 13, 2013, 01:45 PM

were the robbers on horseback?

how many shots were fired?

Gary L. Griffiths · March 13, 2013, 07:57 PM

Thanks, Brian! That's exactly what I was looking for.

Looks like I'll have to grid 1.5 miles X 3 miles. Probably take more than an afternoon!

Knew I could count on TFL!

Mike, it was an Indian massacre, not a robbery. The Indians were on foot, and cut mesquite bushes to stick in the ground for concealment. There were 15 of them, armed with Henry & Spencer repeaters, but they only had two rounds per weapon.

That's probably why there were two survivors.

PetahW · March 14, 2013, 09:21 AM

.

Even the Injuns were under an austerity program..............

.

Hawg · March 14, 2013, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Well, a bit of Google-phoo tells me that the .44RF fired a 200gr Flatnose with a BC of about .153 at about 1125fps...

Methinks it would be a lot less velocity than that. A 44-40 with a 200 grain bullet and 40 grains of black powder only reaches around 1310 FPS. I see no way a 200 grain bullet with 28 grains of powder could possibly come close.

bamaranger · March 15, 2013, 01:51 AM

Tribal sequestration. Who knew?

Mobuck · March 15, 2013, 09:17 AM

At 2 rounds per gun, if anyone was hit, you need to be looking pretty close to the impact site. Less than 100 yards would be my estimate. More than 200 yards would require more calculations and sight adjustments than most Indians would use. Beyond 300 yards would be a "walk it in" proposition which would require numerous rounds of ammo and would be negated by any change in wind direction/force.

Brian Pfleuger · March 15, 2013, 09:55 AM

They weren't shooting at long range, they were shooting at extremely close range and UP at a stagecoach. Hence, a miss would go a long, looong way.

James K · March 15, 2013, 09:13 PM

"Looks like I'll have to grid 1.5 miles X 3 miles. Probably take more than an afternoon!"

And even if your metal detector finds something, you will have to dig and sift, since a high trajectory bullet dropping down will bury itself in the ground. You have your work cut out for you.

Jim

March 13, 2013, 10:44 AM	#1
Gary L. Griffiths Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Location: AZ, WA Posts: 1,466	Maximum Range of Henry, Spencer rifles I'm working on a project involving the Wickenburg Massacre of 1871, in which the attackers fired on a stagecoach with Henry and Spencer rifles, some from as little as 6' away. I figure some firing angles could be as high as 45 degrees. I will be looking for expended bullets from this incident to verify the site and for display at Arizona museums. I would greatly appreciate it if some of the ballistic gurus here could tell me the absolute maximum range of the Henry rifle firing the .44 Henry Flat rimfire cartridge, and that of the Spencer rifle firing the .56-56 Spencer rimfire. I would hate to comb any more of the desert inch by inch with a metal detector than I have to! Moderators, feel free to move this to C&R or Firearms Research as appropriate. I chose this forum for maximum exposure to those knowledgeable of rifle ballistics. Additional information on the archaeological exploration of the massacre site is at https://sites.google.com/site/thewickenburgproject/ Thanks for the help! __________________ Violence is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and valorous feeling which believes that nothing is worth violence is much worse. Those who have nothing for which they are willing to fight; nothing they care about more than their own craven apathy; are miserable creatures who have no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the valor of those better than themselves. Gary L. Griffiths (Paraphrasing John Stuart Mill)

March 13, 2013, 11:01 AM	#2
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Well, a bit of Google-phoo tells me that the .44RF fired a 200gr Flatnose with a BC of about .153 at about 1125fps... JBM Ballistic's maximum range calculator tells me that, at 80F, 25% Humidity and 0ft altitude, the maximum range would be 1963 yards, fired at a 35% angle. I'll figure the other in minute or three... __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

March 13, 2013, 11:29 AM	#3
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Having some trouble locating the BC of the typical .56-56 bullet, but using a LRN with a .215BC at 1,200fps, same conditions as above, max range would be 2,533 yards, 32.5% angle. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

March 13, 2013, 01:45 PM	#4
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	were the robbers on horseback? how many shots were fired? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 13, 2013, 07:57 PM	#5
Gary L. Griffiths Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Location: AZ, WA Posts: 1,466	Thanks, Brian! That's exactly what I was looking for. Looks like I'll have to grid 1.5 miles X 3 miles. Probably take more than an afternoon! Knew I could count on TFL! Mike, it was an Indian massacre, not a robbery. The Indians were on foot, and cut mesquite bushes to stick in the ground for concealment. There were 15 of them, armed with Henry & Spencer repeaters, but they only had two rounds per weapon. That's probably why there were two survivors. __________________ Violence is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and valorous feeling which believes that nothing is worth violence is much worse. Those who have nothing for which they are willing to fight; nothing they care about more than their own craven apathy; are miserable creatures who have no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the valor of those better than themselves. Gary L. Griffiths (Paraphrasing John Stuart Mill)

March 14, 2013, 09:21 AM	#6
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. Even the Injuns were under an austerity program.............. .

March 15, 2013, 01:51 AM	#8
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	cutbacks Tribal sequestration. Who knew?

March 15, 2013, 09:17 AM	#9
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	At 2 rounds per gun, if anyone was hit, you need to be looking pretty close to the impact site. Less than 100 yards would be my estimate. More than 200 yards would require more calculations and sight adjustments than most Indians would use. Beyond 300 yards would be a "walk it in" proposition which would require numerous rounds of ammo and would be negated by any change in wind direction/force.

March 15, 2013, 09:55 AM	#10
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Maximum Range of Henry, Spencer rifles They weren't shooting at long range, they were shooting at extremely close range and UP at a stagecoach. Hence, a miss would go a long, looong way.

March 15, 2013, 09:13 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	"Looks like I'll have to grid 1.5 miles X 3 miles. Probably take more than an afternoon!" And even if your metal detector finds something, you will have to dig and sift, since a high trajectory bullet dropping down will bury itself in the ground. You have your work cut out for you. Jim