30.07 signs appear in TX

[rickyrick]

http://www.kcentv.com/story/30833677...-carry-gun-law

At Least 3 Grocery Stores Opt Out of Texas Open-Carry Gun Law

Posted: Dec 26, 2015 5:08 PM PST
Updated: Dec 26, 2015 5:08 PM PST



SAN ANTONIO (KENS 5) — At least three grocery stores have opted out of Texas' controversial open-carry gun law that will take effect Friday, saying only concealed weapons are allowed in their stores.

The hashtag #GroceriesNotGuns has begun trending on Twitter, fueled by activist groups such as Moms Demand Action. And several gun owners say they don't mind the decisions from H-E-B, which has almost 350 stores in more than 150 Texas communities; and national chains Safeway and Whole Foods.

"I don't know why in a grocery store I would need to open carry," said Leigh Cutter, a San Antonio mother and concealed handgun owner. "As long as I have it on my person, I would be just fine."

H-E-B, with roots in Texas since its founding in 1905, largely has stayed out of the argument, saying in a statement that its rules comply with state regulations because it sells alcoholic beverages.

"As a retailer of alcohol, long guns and unlicensed guns are prohibited on our property under the Texas Alcohol and Beverage Commission rules," according to the grocer's statement. "H-E-B maintains the same policy we have for years, only concealed licensed handguns are allowed on our property."

On New Year's Day, Texas will become the 45th state to legalize carrying a pistol in plain sight....

It goes on to mention the Tea Party and blah blah

[rickyrick]

Texas allows businesses to opt out of allowing carry of weapons, if they post the proper specification signage. It's not "you must allow me to carry on your premises"
I always saw a 30.06 sign and did one of the following: 1. I went somewhere else.
2. I disarmed before entering the establishment.

Mostly option #1 but sometimes you need to go to the hospital

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I deleted a post that was off TX topics. It's not a general discussion of all kinds of business decisions to ban this or that.

Ricky is correct that some banned places, you do need to go to. I prefer to see my cardiologist than not. It's usually hospitals and big medical buildings that ban. I haven't seen it in the smaller practices.

The removal of ban signs on government buildings was great (except for courts). City and counties had signs all over.

[Double Naught Spy]

The removal of ban signs on government buildings was great (except for courts). City and counties had signs all over.

Unfortunately, there are government buildings in McKinney and in Montague that still have such signs despite my notification of the signs not being legally proper.

----------------------

Some folks are considering the dual 30.06/07 postings where no 30.06 posting existed before as backfiring on the cause of gun rights. I don't see it quite that way as much as really helping to identify businesses that are supportive and those that are not.

I also think that a lot of businesses will lose their signs after things settle down, much like many businesses did with 30.06 signs. I would not be surprised if most lose their signs inside of 2 years.

[Kennydale]

http://shop.spreadshirt.com/churchflavor/



I promised my wife i wouldn't embarrass her by wearing this tee in HEB

[LogicMan]

The problems with Open Carry right now is that if you go openly carrying an AR-15, it can strike a lot of people as extremist, even those who are against so-called "assault weapons bans," magazine capacity limitations, and universal background checks. I know, because I was once one of those people. Let alone how the people who are more on the fence and might support those measures might see it. People need to be eased into it.

The other thing is that in the current climate of terrorism threats and mass shootings being more frequent, if you see someone open carrying a rifle into a place of people, like a grocery store or mall, you don't know for sure if they are a mass shooter or not.

And the thing with Open Carry is that you can claim that banning it does not violate the right to keep and bear arms as we support it, i.e. that it isn't a ban on carrying of a gun, just the open carrying of a gun, that it is not a ban on the possession of long guns or guns labeled as assault weapons and thus is not a ban on being able to resist a tyranny should one arise, and also is not a ban on the ability to defend oneself.

So it can sound very reasonable to many people who would otherwise themselves be considered extremist by the Moms Demand Action types. Also, one could make the argument that an accident could happen, say a curious child run up and pull the trigger on someone's holstered gun or slung rifle (I know this happened to a police officer visiting a kindergarten).

[Double Naught Spy]

The problem you failed to understand, LogicMan, is that 30.06 and 30.07 have nothing to do with long guns.

[LogicMan]

To many people though, open carry is still open carry regardless, and it is easy for legislators to fool those who don't know the nuts and bolts.

[zincwarrior]

Quote:
A non-compliant sign may convey the property owner's wishes but it doesn't ban anything.
Sure it does.

It bans firearms from the property owners premises. A total and complete Ban.

The sign may not carry some misdemeanor charges associated with a Compliant sign, but it is a total and complete Ban just the same and violating that sign can get you removed from the premises.

Being removed for disobeying a sign, is a ban.

Sign on the door says, "No Skate Boards Allowed". No force of Law attached.

Ya ride in on a "Skate Board", ya get tossed out the door.

Guess what, the sign banned Skate Boards even without the force of law.

NO.
Not in Texas. Texas has specific legal requirements for sign posting. This law was put in place specifically to make gunbuster and other signage invalid, as there is a criminal penalty attached to carrying beyond the signs. Additionally, the manner of the sign posting and details on the sign itself (size of lettering, English and Spanish, actual language etc.) are detailed in the law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer
Interesting side effect again - another new ghost buster sign at a local house of worship. Never had one before.

I wonder if folks don't want to post the large and obnoxious 30.07 but want to make a statement.

If they ever got rid of the 30.06/07 rules, the state would be blanketed with signs.

That would be a gift from the OC crowd.

...and you know this how?

Past history. When CHL was first put in place a plethora of signs were being put up. The law was enacted with very specific requirements to avoid just such a thing.

The problem you failed to understand, LogicMan, is that 30.06 and 30.07 have nothing to do with long guns.

Very true. The antics of certain OCT groups have created much of the problem with this, which has been used as fodder by the Bloomberg funded Moms Demand Blah Blah and other groups to pressure entities.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

http://www.policeone.com/patrol-issu...Member&cub_id=[cub_id]

Interesting nuance from Austin. The chief there was a known gun hater and wanted to stop carriers. However, in the article, his training head says that OC isn't a big deal and officers should probably not stop folks and harass them unless they are out of whack somehow.

[2ndsojourn]

From the above linked article:

"...it'll become the 45th state to legalize carrying a pistol in plain sight."

" It'll be the largest state to sanction some form of open carry, with California, Florida, Illinois, New York and South Carolina still banning it."



He didn't mention NJ, and I'm almost positive it's a no-go here. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200, go directly to jail.

[Andy Blozinski]

This has statements from a few major chains. They don't have a problem with people carrying. They just want them to be concealed:
http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/28/news...law/index.html

[steve4102]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

TX law explicitly spells out the three ways a property owner can ban handgun carry on his property.

.Post a compliant sign. The size of the letters, the location of the sign and the specific wording of the sign are defined by law.

.Notify a person verbally. There is no legal definition of how this must be carried out so the property owner can choose the wording he/she prefers.

.Hand a person a compliant card. The specific wording on the card is defined by law.

Any of these actions (including the verbal warning) has the force of law.

Does the Spoken Word and the "Compliant Card" have to be given before one enters the establishment to "Carry the Force of Law" or do these carry the "Force of Law" if done after entering?

[zincwarrior]

They have force of law in that, if the person does not comply after this notice is given then they are in violation of the law. A legally valid and posted sign makes it a violation to even enter, which is why its the requirements are very strict.

[steve4102]

I was under the impression that "Force of law" was not the same as a Standard trespass violation, as in failure to leave when asked? I was under the impression that one could be charged with both if one refused to leave , as they are not the same?



What is the Penalty for violating a Compliant No-Guns Sign?

Does this same penalty apply to an individual that violates a verbal Command and/or violating a written Compliant card?

[JohnKSa]

Does the Spoken Word and the "Compliant Card" have to be given before one enters the establishment to "Carry the Force of Law" or do these carry the "Force of Law" if done after entering?

There is no specification in the law as to when a verbal or a card notification must be given.

A compliant sign must be displayed in a "conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public." That is generally taken to mean that it must be posted at all public entrances in such a way as to make it quite obvious to anyone entering or preparing to enter.

What is the Penalty for violating a Compliant No-Guns Sign?

It is currently a Class A misdemeanor. In the next few days the law will change and it will become a Class C misdemeanor which escalates to a Class A if the license holder is given oral notice and fails to depart.

Does this same penalty apply to an individual that violates a verbal Command and/or violating a written Compliant card?

The penalty is the currently the same for all three.

Under the new law the penalty will be the same for all three unless the license holder fails to depart after being given oral notice--that would increase the severity of the crime.

I was under the impression that "Force of law" was not the same as a Standard trespass violation, as in failure to leave when asked?

It's complicated. The simplest answer is that they are not the same.

I was under the impression that one could be charged with both if one refused to leave , as they are not the same?

As I understand the law, you can not be charged with both as it appears that TX law exempts license holders from being prosecuted under the standard trespass law if they are eligible for prosecution under the 30.06 or 30.07 laws.

[Dreaming100Straight]

Unloaded Open Carry was legal in California, until some well activists held UOC rallys in public places. So many people were panicked by the sight of evil guns that UOC was criminalized as of Jan 2012. I believe we still have Loaded Open Carry, but only in counties with Populations of 200,000 or less.

[jtmckinney]

I am not going to get all worked up about 30.07 signs. On the other hand 30.06 signs are an invitation to take my business elsewhere. At least that's where I am today, we will see how my thinking evolves over the next couple years.

I am hoping this is much about nothing. I supported the passing of this law. I am not a member of "Open Carry Texas" and think they made getting this law passed a harder hill to climb for those legislators in favor. If they want to claim credit I am not going to argue with them, just keep my thoughts to myself.

I have no plans to open carry on a regular basis but may do so when appropriate.

Hopefully one of the local restaurants will once a month have "Open Carry Night" where the staff is open carrying (not mandatory, only if they chose) and we can show off our carry rigs. Maybe feature a chicken fried steak cut in the shape of Texas with Texas toast, gravy and vegetable of your choice. Keep it a fun thing.

Looking forward to 2016! And HEY!! the countdown in on until we get a new President.

[Ruark]

No wonder the stores are prohibiting open display of firearms. It may be legal, but it makes people uneasy (including me) to see a bunch of yahoo morons walking around with AR15s. It's downright embarrassing and makes me ashamed of some of our so-called 2A proponents.

Yes... I'm here in Texas in the middle of all this, and these guys have been a total disaster. 06/07 signs are exploding all over the state, because business owners are terrified of a bunch of goons in camo and boonie hats walking in with ARs. Moms Demand Action is going around literally door to door passing out legal signs to businesses, and dozens of printing companies are marketing them heavily with email spam and Google ad tracking. And it's all because of these apes.

They have totally ruined the new open carry privilege in Texas.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

It was predict that such a reaction would occur and yes, it did.

Some folks say that businesses will realize it's stupid and take them down. Don't count on it. We are just lucky as I said before that the legislation didn't allow ghost busters to return. That almost happened.

[JohnKSa]

That almost happened.

Mom's Demand Action pushed to pass a bill (HB 2405) to eliminate the current signage and allow simple no-guns type signs. It did not pass.

http://momsdemandaction.org/in-the-n...earms-signage/

According to the TSRA's lobbyist, the head of Open Carry Texas (C.J. Grisham) supported/partially supported that legislation. I've not been able to find independent confirmation of that fact although Grisham seems to tacitly acknowledge the truth of the allegation with this response on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/cjgrisham/status/675819754389549056

[Glenn E. Meyer]

http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2...n-owners.html/

Makes the point that we lost ground with the negative portrayal of gun owners and correlated increase in 30.06 signs. We got some 06 signs after the OCT prancing around with ARs. That set the increase in 30.07 signs and the joint one.

The Austin Chronicle paper has a front page story and compliant signs for both inside the paper. Just paste them on the door. Just so some jerk can posture.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Went to Sea Island, the other night. It is a local small chain inexpensive sea food place (which can do a better job that some of the more expensive ones).

So there is a big fat compliant 30.07 on the door. So for grins, I asked the manager - as he was standing around - why the sign? He said they have an older clientele (OLD) as well as young families with kids. The company did not think open carry was an atmosphere conducive to OC. The really old folks might be upset. They were perfectly fine with guns in the store - as long as concealed. NOT a problem at all.

He said, they had a small number of folks get angry but so what. The place was packed to the gills so I don't think the loss of business threat means squat to a popular place.

Still haven't seen an OC type.