Talk me out of going progressive...

[kingbubbatruck]

Ok,

So talk me out of going whole hog and jumping into reloading by buying a progressive press?

Pros - Faster?

Cons- More expensive?

I understand there is a bigger learning curve with the progressive press.

I understand some of the single stagers can later be upgraded to progressive.

But let's assume that I like reloading and that if I did buy a single stage and later upgraded, would I save money on equipment by buying the progessive to start?

I'm a fairly meticulous, mechanically inclinded, and I like to shoot.

I'd start off reloading .38, .40s&w, .45acp, .223rem.

Other than the expense of the equipment, any reason not to go progressive?

Could I use the progressive equipment 'single stage style' at first if that's a prerequisite to learn what you are doing before you go progressive?

Thanks in advance for your help...

[zxcvbob]

Progressive press takes much longer to adjust and set-up if you like to play with different load developments.

I probably load about half the time on a SS press and half the time on my progressive. (I like to tinker a lot)

[kingbubbatruck]

What if I'm thinking of primarily going for quantity of known loads? I'm not going to be a bench rest shooter striving for that ultimate sub 1/4 MOA load...

I've heard that you 'can' save money reloading, but there are a lot of 'depends'.

My assumption is that once I sink the cost on the capital investment, it's something that I will amortize over my lifetime, leading to a per round incremental cost of 'very little'.

[LHB1]

Progressives also take longer to switch calibers (especially with some setups): dies, shell holders/plates, and powder measure settings. You will also have to switch primer setups from small to large or vice versa with those calibers. Be sure to investigate EXACTLY how those changes will be done on whichever brand of press you consider.

[kingbubbatruck]

Hmmm, Thats a good point.

But unless I'm wrong, don't you have to setup the single stage for each operation as well?

But point taken. Seems like single stage would be easier to learn, as you concentrate on one process at a time.

Is it possible to use a progressive as a single, for learning purposes?

[LHB1]

Yes, you have to change the single stage also but changing one shell holder (especially with snap in styles) is MUCH faster and easier than changing a shell holder plate on a progressive press. Also at the lower cost, you could buy two single stage presses, one for small primers and one for large primers. Then all you have to do is change the die for each step. You could use a progressive as a single stage but after spending the extra money for the progressive, I think you would very quickly begin using it as a progressive. If you want the progressive, go for it. Just trying to point out some of the extra, sometimes not expected, tasks/steps involved.

[Scott5]

Hey King,
Is it possible to use a progressive as a single, for learning purposes?

Most definitly.
Since you stated that you are Quote:I'm a fairly meticulous, mechanically inclinded, and I like to shoot.
A progressive would not be a great challenge for you IMHO.
Check out this for the comparison of three of the leading progressives and you might find a sight for the RCBS press.:
http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillon...Comparison.pdf
http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=26

I hope this helps.

Happy shooting
Scott5

[kingbubbatruck]

Scott5

Very helpful...

For the time being, I'm going to buy decenty quality ammo with reloadable brass, and keep my eye out for a deal on a decent press.

Just starting my research on this,

Still trying to build my budget back up after my last rifle purchase.

[Nnobby45]

Google up Brian Enos' site and browse around. He has a section on progressive loaders that will tell you all you need to know to make your choice. Of course, he's a pistol loader.

[Shoney]

kingbubbatruck:

The question is:
"Should you reload?"
YES

Next question is:
"What kind of a press do you need?"
No intelligent person can answer that unless you can tell us what kind of numbers of each cartridge you are shooting per day/week/month/or year?????
When you can give us those numbers, we can sort out which type of press would be better for you.

There is no reason you cannot start on a progressive, but do you really need it or something better suited to your needs.

[sourdough44]

There is also what I consider to be sorta a 'middle ground'. That would be a 'turret' type press. That is one you are able to mount several dies at one time on. In most cases you manually move the cartridge & prime away from the press. I have an older one that works fine. I switch around the cartridges a good amount. I did have a progressive years ago,not Dillon, & went back to my current system. The set up & caliber switch can be a bear on the lower end progressives. IMHO

[45Marlin carbine]

I use 2 single presses in tandem. one is a 'chucker. I load magnum cases for buddys and form .45acp shot shells from .45 Win mag cases. can't do that on a progressive.
I haven't had the need to yet but could form brass into other calibers as well.
loading pistol rounds I can turn some rounds out, I use the powder-thru-expander die. most times I have a shooting buddy run the seating/crimp press after I get it set up.
someone that shot a lot though would be better off with a progressive. I'm doing good to find time to shoot 200 rounds/month.

[Sevens]

A lot of folks have already said what I would have said, so I'll address a couple of finer points.

The tooling is a one time investment. Whether it's single stage or pregressive, it's going to last for many, many years. If your concern is how cheaply you can make your ammo, you need to keep one word at the top of your mind all the time: BULK. The more components you can buy in one heap, the cheaper you can make your ammo. Buy your bullets not by the hundred -- buy them by the 5,000. Don't buy powder by the pound, get the 8-pound kegs. When you get primers, don't buy a box of 100 for $3.50, buy 5,000 of them for $110 and pay the hazmat shipping fees.

Also, there are many choices in single stage presses. You can get one fairly cheap. After the press, all the other tools are parts and pieces you will always need and use for the rest of your days as a reloader. Especially reloading dies in different calibers. No matter whether you are single stage or progressive, you will always need those dies, a scale, caliber, case tumbler. There's a heap of stuff that you will need either way.

You could buy a single stage press AND a progressive at the same time, and leave the progressive in it's box unopened. In a year, set it up. If you are ready sooner, maybe in 4 months. If you have it down pat in record time, set that SOB up in a week. The single stage press will always be handy to have, and all the other tools you've compiled will be necessary in the long run.

[NAKing]

I am a newbie here, but let me explain why I didn't go progressive. I had the money for a nice progressive but after research I steered myself toward single stage. I found that the cost of outfitting a progressive with only one new caliber is almost as expensive as buying a nice single stage. (>$100). With the single stage I'd just need new dies and a shell holder to make the switch. The progressives I looked at all needed an expensive "kit."

[kingbubbatruck]

Ok, I think you guys did what I asked. I think you've talked me out of a progress to start for the following reasons:

1) a Single stage will always be handy to have around, so
I wouldn't be 'wasting' anything by getting one.

2) A single stage is quicker to setup and change out, so
if I'm doing smaller quantities of different rounds

3) Learning curve is quicker on a Single stage

It'd be easy enough to get a progressive later if I really wanted to crank out large quantities.

Thanks! Single stage here i come...

[mikenbarb]

King, Im fairly new to reloading and I started with a single stage to get the feel of things better and the accuracy for load development. I just got my first progressive last month and love it for handgun rounds but hate it for my rifle loads. I tend to still go to my single stage for all my rifle loading wheather its 200 or just 10. The time to change out for different calibers is quite a bit more on a progressive. I have a Hornady Pro-Jector and I gotta change the shell plate, Dies, Primer tube, readjust the machine and powder measure for the caliber im loading, etc, etc. With my single stage, Its an old Herters Super 81 with 2 rams, All I have to do is snap in 2 new shell holders, Change dies, verify the powder charge and off I go. It might also be a good idea for you to just get a simple single stage turret press. You will get the best of both worlds and still be able to put out some volume if you have to. Good luck with reloading, Its Great!

[CrustyFN]

kingbubbatruck you might want to look at the Lee classic turret. It is the best middle of the road press out there. I have been loading on one for two years. Most people load 200 rounds per hour on the classic. I load 9mm, 38/357, 45 auto and 223 on mine. It takes about 30 seconds to change calibers and another 30 seconds if you change primer sizes. The cost of a caliber change is only the price of dies and a $9 turret. It is a very solid press that will last a life time and can be bought at a reasonable price. You should be able to get setup for around $250 to $300 and that would include a decent scale, caliper and a tumbler to clean your brass.


Hope this helps.
Rusty

[kingbubbatruck]

Sounds pretty respectable to me.

Basically, sounds like once you get good:

Couple of hours at the press filling rounds = couple of hours expending rounds

[Sevens]

I think that if you are one of the fortunate that has a place to shoot at home or very close to home and you get to shoot once a week or more often, you might find yourself needing production and leaning toward progressive eventually. If you compete in IPSC or IPDA with a handgun, you pretty much HAVE TO have a progressive setup.

I'm the kind of guy (like many I'm sure) who doesn't get a chance to shoot nearly as often as I would like, but I can spend a decent amount of time at home so reloading single stage works very well for me. I use the Lee Classic Cast and I love it and it's worth every single cent of the mere $70 I paid for it, but I think if I had to do it all over again I would look at the Classic Turret. I would rather have my Classic cast over the regular Lee Turret, however. I love the solid, beefy build of this press.

[CraigC]

Personally, I think you really need to know what you're doing when you get a progressive. Too much going on at one time.

I have to agree that a turret is a great place to start. It offers the simplicity and "one step at a time" advantage of the single stage with fewer of the disadvantages. Keeping several turret heads saves a lot of time adjusting dies. I use the RCBS turret and each turret head has six holes, setup with two calibers each.

[kingbubbatruck]

Where I live, the county outdoor range facility is probably less than 3 miles away? I haven't gone there yet, because there's a lot of public land I can go to and shoot for free within 5 minutes away as well.

I really have no excuse for not shooting at least once a week, and should probably go more...

[Smoke & Recoil]

My opinion is...to start the learning process on a single stage press, but the Lee Classic Turrent would be a great tool to learn
on as well, just don't get hung up on the priming system that comes with
the Lee Classic Turrent, it does a great job when you fine tune it.

I hope my opinion helps
Roger

[wingman]

I second the lee classic turret,use manual or auto indexing, I have 2 turrets,
lyman and Lee prefer them over the progressive mostly for the safety factor.

[FM12]

Try it with a rfeloaqding buddy, if you have one. If not, advertise in the local paper for some reloading instruction. The NRA (and I hope you are a member) has persons through out the US certified in reloading instruction that would be more than glad to assist you, as would most other reloaders. These are some of the best person in the shooting sports, period. Very willing to asssit new persons interested in reloading.

It is more than a cheap or even better way to produce ammo, it becomes a real boon to shooting.

A Dillon Square Deal can be used as a single stage, you just load one case and process it all the way thru the 4 stages. The press moves the case for you, and you can remoce the case at any station to inspect your progress.

I have 3 Square Deals, and also own and use a Forester/Bonanza Co-Ax single stage, in my opinion the best s/s press available. I use it for rifle reloading, or for a few calibers I don't load a lot of. The dies snap in and out and it uses a sliding "universal" shell holder to hold the case in place, no need to buy shell holders for each caliber.

Do your research, talk to others and see what you think.

Personally, I'd rather give up shooting than reloading!

[clos]

I reload on both a progressive and a single stage.
Dillon RL550B and a Rockchucker.
My very first press 17 yrs age was the RL550B. And i did not have a hard time with a progressive as some people will lead u to believe.
you just have to take your time. I like the DILLON BRAND because of their NO BS WARRANTY. Had to send mine back due to my own fault trying to dissamble in order to re-grease the linkage, whick BTW is super simple with their new presses. called them up told them what i did and they said send it back and we will fix it. sent it back and some time later came back upgraded with the new linkage arms that are super simple to regrease.
spend the extra coin and get the dillon u won't regret it. plus if u ever want to sell it. their resale value is great.


Carlos