High standard HB

randames22 · September 14, 2007, 03:19 PM

I'm trying to find schematic for a High Standard HB. As a youngster I used to shoot this gun a lot. But the spring (not sure which one) has become broken, destroyed, etc. to the point that I can't pull the slide back. I'm trying to take it apart but need some more info to dismantle it. Any info would be great. Thank you.

James K · September 14, 2007, 04:05 PM

I am answering only because I don't want you to feel no one did, but I have no solution. Disassembly of that pistol requires pulling the slide back and locking the recoil spring. I don't know what to do if the slide won't come back. FWIW, it sounds like the recoil spring has become jammed up, probably due to trying to take the pistol down the wrong way.

Maybe, and note that word, you can still lower the takedown latch and get the stop lug down out of the way. If so, then maybe you can pull the slide off to the rear, but I wouldn't count on it.

Jim

randames22 · September 14, 2007, 04:39 PM

I'm not sure what the take down latch is. I know the spring is trashed but don't know if it would be good to try and "force" the slide back or not. My experience says that if you have to force something the results aren't always the best. Still trying.

P5 Guy · September 14, 2007, 08:14 PM

Try asking your question on rimfirecentral.com If you can't get an answer there there isn't one.

randames22 · September 14, 2007, 08:27 PM

Thanks, I'll give it a try.

James K · September 15, 2007, 10:05 PM

The correct name is the takedown lever. It is on the left rear of the frame, and moves the stop lug down out of the way so the slide can be removed to the rear.

The normal takedown procedure is to pull the slide back all the way, then hold it while you push down on the little button on the top of the slide. Holding that button down, push the slide forward (the spring tension is off).
With the slide forward, turn the takedown lever forward and down and hold it down while pulling the slide to the rear and off the frame.

If you have to disassemble the slide, you will have to re-engage the pickup spring (the flat spring with the "finger") with the recoil spring guide. If the slide is put on without doing that, it will be almost impossible to take back off.

Jim

randames22 · September 18, 2007, 05:01 PM

After reading all the posts, I'm finding out more and more and I think all of you for that. I'm missing the takedown lever on this pistol and the slide will only come back about an inch. Then it just gets like that spring is buggered up so bad it won't let the slide come back any farther. So...........a rubber hammer? Any Ideas?

randames22 · September 18, 2007, 05:02 PM

After reading all the posts, I'm finding out more and more and I thank all of you for that. I'm missing the takedown lever on this pistol and the slide will only come back about an inch. Then it just gets like that spring is buggered up so bad it won't let the slide come back any farther. So...........a rubber hammer? Any Ideas?

James K · September 18, 2007, 09:53 PM

There were two types of takedown used on the Model B, so first let me ask if your gun has the button on the top of the slide. If it does, it should have a takedown lever on the RIGHT (my goof in saying "left") rear of the frame. If it is not there, there should be a hole where it was.

If there is no button on the slide, there should be a takedown lever on the LEFT side, looking like a reverse of the safety. If it is not there, there should be a hole.

If you let me know which takedown type you have, it could help in figuring out the solution to the problem.

Jim

randames22 · September 19, 2007, 11:32 AM

The takedown lever was on the right, but is missing. There is a hole there. The button you talk of on the top is also misssing but there is a hole there that allows you to view the spring. A mess, isn't it?

James K · September 19, 2007, 01:44 PM

Wow, a mess is an understatement. With no claims that it will work without damage to the gun, try this.

Look into the hole where the takedown lever was and you should see a round hole with a kind of keyhole at the front. Insert a small screwdriver and see if you can turn the part the keyhole is in. It is the stop lug that prevents the slide from coming back off the frame when firing. The takedown lever moves it forward and down out of the way. There is a lug on the takedown lever that works the same as the screwdriver to do that. If you can get that lug down and hold it there, you MIGHT be able to move the slide back off the frame. But with the lug in the upward position, there is no way the slide can come off short of a cutting torch.

There might be another way. At the front of the slide there is a small pin, in a vertical position. If you can find a good machinist with a good drill press or milling machine, he might be able to use a stiff starter drill to drill that pin out. (It can't be driven out as there is no place to drive it with the slide in place.) That will free up the plug that supports the recoil spring and let the spring come out the front of the slide. The spring will be ruined, but that is a given anyway. Then maybe the rest of the recoil spring stuff will fall out through the mag well. Then do the thing with the screwdriver in the takedown lever hole.

If all else fails, see if you can buy a new slide and takedown lever. GPC lists the slides at around $80 complete, $50 stripped (buy the complete), the levers at about $30. Then, with new parts in hand, use a cutting wheel to just cut the slide off.

You will probably find you need a few small parts as well, but you can deal with that when you need to.

It is a drastic solution, but better than ruining the frame by trying to beat the slide off.

Jim

randames22 · September 21, 2007, 10:27 AM

The saga continues and gets even worse, I'm afraid. I couldn't find the "keyhole" that you spoke of and to make matters worse, the ferule or whatever you call it (the thing the takedown lever slides into) moved up where the busted spring is. since there is no firing pin, the spring is up into that cavity. I'm still working at finding miracles I guess to see if I can get that slide off. I did get a Winchester model 1897 back together and working though, so some things are okay.

James K · September 21, 2007, 08:58 PM

My gut feeling is that the stop lug is also missing and that the only thing holding the slide on is the kinked up spring. Now you indicate the firing pin is also missing. I think it is time to re-evaluate. If the frame is otherwise complete (how about the trigger, trigger bar, sear, hammer, etc.?), and it is possible to get a new slide, I would seriously think about simply using a hacksaw or a cutting wheel to cut the slide off. Any other method could ruin the frame and that would make the gun junk.

There is some collector value in those guns today, but they top out at around $700. But in its present condition it is worthless, so a new slide would not make it any worse.

Jim

George R · September 22, 2007, 12:31 PM

Hi Randames. With the takedown latch gone, it's almost impossible to remove the slide. You might want to get a latch, see if you can put it in and then hopefully take off the slide. PM me you email address and I'll email you an exploded view and illustrated takedown instructions.

randames22 · October 2, 2007, 10:46 AM

I think you are right when you say that a kinked up spring is the only thing holding the slide on. Everything else is ther on the gun and the other parts would be somewhere but probably not findable. I took it apart over 35 years ago and NEVER got back to it. How about if I just try to destroy that spring in little pieces, wouldn't the slide come off then?

James K · October 2, 2007, 09:13 PM

Sorry to have been a while responding. I did think that maybe if you took off the grips, you might be able to get at that spring through the magazine well. Any way you can get to the spring, either to pull it out, or to cut it up would work.

Also, you need to be sure that the stop lug is NOT in the gun. If it is, it has to be moved out of the way before the slide can be removed. If you can't see it through the takedown lever hole, and if you can't feel anything in there, it probably is gone. But if you do get the spring out of the way and the slide still does not come off, don't force it.

Jim

randames22 · October 26, 2007, 08:34 AM

Okay, it's been awhile since I've been online. The spring is clearly visible through the firing pin hole and from the top where the push button was. It is not visible from the magazine slot at all, with grips removed, etc. The slide will come back about an inch and a half, but no farther. If only there is a way to destroy the spring that is all gnarled up, I'm sure the slide would then come off. Any ideas that don't require to much destruction of the frame or slide? I've gotten schematics and intructions with exploded views of the gun but they won't help much with the present situation. Thanks.

James K · October 26, 2007, 02:29 PM

Check this out and let me know what you find. In the front of the slide on the right top there should be a small pin going down vertically into the slide. Note its position. That pin holds the recoil spring plug in place. (At the factory, the recoil spring was inserted from the front, as they didn't want to drill a hole through the back of the slide. Then the plug was inserted and pinned in to hold the recoil spring in place.)

Now turn the gun over and look up through the magazine well and see if you see the bottom end of that pin. If you do, and it has room to move down, get a small but short drift punch and try to drive the pin down. (Don't try to drive it upward; it should come out by moving down.) It should be a bit hard to move, but if there is room for it to move, it will. Once started with the short punch, get a longer one and drive the pin completely out.

Now, maybe, the recoil spring plug will come out and you can get the recoil spring out from the front of the slide. If that doesn't work, you can try having the pin drilled out, as I mentioned previously.

Jim

angeldeville · October 26, 2007, 02:57 PM

I'll dig mine out of the safe tonight and see if I can be of any help.

Pics of yours would be helpful.

randames22 · October 27, 2007, 05:05 PM

Well..............it's just half a pin off. Half of the pin runs into the rail below.....................crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was a really good idea but it just runs into the rail. And not enough to let the plug out either. Still working on it though.

James K · October 27, 2007, 09:01 PM

I was afraid of that, but it has been a long time since I had one of those apart. So, the only choice would appear to be to drill out the pin. Unless you have or can find a drill press or a milling machine, I think it is gunsmith time.

Maybe a smith with the gun in hand can figure out another way to do the job, but I think drilling out that pin is likely the best way to go.

Jim

randames22 · October 28, 2007, 03:00 PM

Okay, are you speaking of the pin that holds that plug in? I'm really brainstorming to figure out a way to take that slide off. I'm sure I can come up with something but if anyone has better ideas, PLEASE pass them on! Thanks.

randames22 · October 30, 2007, 10:43 AM

Do you think there would be a problem to take that pin out throught the top intead of pushing it down? Is it tapered or shouldered so as not to come out the top?

September 14, 2007, 03:19 PM	#1
randames22 Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Gardiner Montana at the North entrance to Yellowstone Nat'l Park Posts: 27	High standard HB I'm trying to find schematic for a High Standard HB. As a youngster I used to shoot this gun a lot. But the spring (not sure which one) has become broken, destroyed, etc. to the point that I can't pull the slide back. I'm trying to take it apart but need some more info to dismantle it. Any info would be great. Thank you.

September 22, 2007, 12:31 PM	#14
George R Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 151	Hi Standard HB Hi Randames. With the takedown latch gone, it's almost impossible to remove the slide. You might want to get a latch, see if you can put it in and then hopefully take off the slide. PM me you email address and I'll email you an exploded view and illustrated takedown instructions. __________________ http://www.gunblue.homestead.com

October 26, 2007, 02:57 PM	#19
angeldeville Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2007 Posts: 192	I'll dig mine out of the safe tonight and see if I can be of any help. Pics of yours would be helpful. __________________ That's the way John Wayne woulda done it.

September 14, 2007, 04:05 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I am answering only because I don't want you to feel no one did, but I have no solution. Disassembly of that pistol requires pulling the slide back and locking the recoil spring. I don't know what to do if the slide won't come back. FWIW, it sounds like the recoil spring has become jammed up, probably due to trying to take the pistol down the wrong way. Maybe, and note that word, you can still lower the takedown latch and get the stop lug down out of the way. If so, then maybe you can pull the slide off to the rear, but I wouldn't count on it. Jim

September 14, 2007, 04:39 PM	#3
randames22 Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Gardiner Montana at the North entrance to Yellowstone Nat'l Park Posts: 27	I'm not sure what the take down latch is. I know the spring is trashed but don't know if it would be good to try and "force" the slide back or not. My experience says that if you have to force something the results aren't always the best. Still trying.

September 14, 2007, 08:14 PM	#4
P5 Guy Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 1,804	Try asking your question on rimfirecentral.com If you can't get an answer there there isn't one.

September 14, 2007, 08:27 PM	#5
randames22 Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Gardiner Montana at the North entrance to Yellowstone Nat'l Park Posts: 27	Thanks, I'll give it a try.

September 15, 2007, 10:05 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The correct name is the takedown lever. It is on the left rear of the frame, and moves the stop lug down out of the way so the slide can be removed to the rear. The normal takedown procedure is to pull the slide back all the way, then hold it while you push down on the little button on the top of the slide. Holding that button down, push the slide forward (the spring tension is off). With the slide forward, turn the takedown lever forward and down and hold it down while pulling the slide to the rear and off the frame. If you have to disassemble the slide, you will have to re-engage the pickup spring (the flat spring with the "finger") with the recoil spring guide. If the slide is put on without doing that, it will be almost impossible to take back off. Jim

September 18, 2007, 05:01 PM	#7
randames22 Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Gardiner Montana at the North entrance to Yellowstone Nat'l Park Posts: 27	After reading all the posts, I'm finding out more and more and I think all of you for that. I'm missing the takedown lever on this pistol and the slide will only come back about an inch. Then it just gets like that spring is buggered up so bad it won't let the slide come back any farther. So...........a rubber hammer? Any Ideas?

September 18, 2007, 05:02 PM	#8
randames22 Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Gardiner Montana at the North entrance to Yellowstone Nat'l Park Posts: 27	After reading all the posts, I'm finding out more and more and I thank all of you for that. I'm missing the takedown lever on this pistol and the slide will only come back about an inch. Then it just gets like that spring is buggered up so bad it won't let the slide come back any farther. So...........a rubber hammer? Any Ideas?

September 18, 2007, 09:53 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There were two types of takedown used on the Model B, so first let me ask if your gun has the button on the top of the slide. If it does, it should have a takedown lever on the RIGHT (my goof in saying "left") rear of the frame. If it is not there, there should be a hole where it was. If there is no button on the slide, there should be a takedown lever on the LEFT side, looking like a reverse of the safety. If it is not there, there should be a hole. If you let me know which takedown type you have, it could help in figuring out the solution to the problem. Jim

September 19, 2007, 11:32 AM	#10
randames22 Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Gardiner Montana at the North entrance to Yellowstone Nat'l Park Posts: 27	The takedown lever was on the right, but is missing. There is a hole there. The button you talk of on the top is also misssing but there is a hole there that allows you to view the spring. A mess, isn't it?

September 19, 2007, 01:44 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Wow, a mess is an understatement. With no claims that it will work without damage to the gun, try this. Look into the hole where the takedown lever was and you should see a round hole with a kind of keyhole at the front. Insert a small screwdriver and see if you can turn the part the keyhole is in. It is the stop lug that prevents the slide from coming back off the frame when firing. The takedown lever moves it forward and down out of the way. There is a lug on the takedown lever that works the same as the screwdriver to do that. If you can get that lug down and hold it there, you MIGHT be able to move the slide back off the frame. But with the lug in the upward position, there is no way the slide can come off short of a cutting torch. There might be another way. At the front of the slide there is a small pin, in a vertical position. If you can find a good machinist with a good drill press or milling machine, he might be able to use a stiff starter drill to drill that pin out. (It can't be driven out as there is no place to drive it with the slide in place.) That will free up the plug that supports the recoil spring and let the spring come out the front of the slide. The spring will be ruined, but that is a given anyway. Then maybe the rest of the recoil spring stuff will fall out through the mag well. Then do the thing with the screwdriver in the takedown lever hole. If all else fails, see if you can buy a new slide and takedown lever. GPC lists the slides at around $80 complete, $50 stripped (buy the complete), the levers at about $30. Then, with new parts in hand, use a cutting wheel to just cut the slide off. You will probably find you need a few small parts as well, but you can deal with that when you need to. It is a drastic solution, but better than ruining the frame by trying to beat the slide off. Jim

September 21, 2007, 10:27 AM	#12
randames22 Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Gardiner Montana at the North entrance to Yellowstone Nat'l Park Posts: 27	The saga continues and gets even worse, I'm afraid. I couldn't find the "keyhole" that you spoke of and to make matters worse, the ferule or whatever you call it (the thing the takedown lever slides into) moved up where the busted spring is. since there is no firing pin, the spring is up into that cavity. I'm still working at finding miracles I guess to see if I can get that slide off. I did get a Winchester model 1897 back together and working though, so some things are okay.

September 21, 2007, 08:58 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	My gut feeling is that the stop lug is also missing and that the only thing holding the slide on is the kinked up spring. Now you indicate the firing pin is also missing. I think it is time to re-evaluate. If the frame is otherwise complete (how about the trigger, trigger bar, sear, hammer, etc.?), and it is possible to get a new slide, I would seriously think about simply using a hacksaw or a cutting wheel to cut the slide off. Any other method could ruin the frame and that would make the gun junk. There is some collector value in those guns today, but they top out at around $700. But in its present condition it is worthless, so a new slide would not make it any worse. Jim

October 2, 2007, 10:46 AM	#15
randames22 Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Gardiner Montana at the North entrance to Yellowstone Nat'l Park Posts: 27	I think you are right when you say that a kinked up spring is the only thing holding the slide on. Everything else is ther on the gun and the other parts would be somewhere but probably not findable. I took it apart over 35 years ago and NEVER got back to it. How about if I just try to destroy that spring in little pieces, wouldn't the slide come off then?

October 2, 2007, 09:13 PM	#16
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Sorry to have been a while responding. I did think that maybe if you took off the grips, you might be able to get at that spring through the magazine well. Any way you can get to the spring, either to pull it out, or to cut it up would work. Also, you need to be sure that the stop lug is NOT in the gun. If it is, it has to be moved out of the way before the slide can be removed. If you can't see it through the takedown lever hole, and if you can't feel anything in there, it probably is gone. But if you do get the spring out of the way and the slide still does not come off, don't force it. Jim

October 26, 2007, 08:34 AM	#17
randames22 Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Gardiner Montana at the North entrance to Yellowstone Nat'l Park Posts: 27	Okay, it's been awhile since I've been online. The spring is clearly visible through the firing pin hole and from the top where the push button was. It is not visible from the magazine slot at all, with grips removed, etc. The slide will come back about an inch and a half, but no farther. If only there is a way to destroy the spring that is all gnarled up, I'm sure the slide would then come off. Any ideas that don't require to much destruction of the frame or slide? I've gotten schematics and intructions with exploded views of the gun but they won't help much with the present situation. Thanks.

October 26, 2007, 02:29 PM	#18
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Check this out and let me know what you find. In the front of the slide on the right top there should be a small pin going down vertically into the slide. Note its position. That pin holds the recoil spring plug in place. (At the factory, the recoil spring was inserted from the front, as they didn't want to drill a hole through the back of the slide. Then the plug was inserted and pinned in to hold the recoil spring in place.) Now turn the gun over and look up through the magazine well and see if you see the bottom end of that pin. If you do, and it has room to move down, get a small but short drift punch and try to drive the pin down. (Don't try to drive it upward; it should come out by moving down.) It should be a bit hard to move, but if there is room for it to move, it will. Once started with the short punch, get a longer one and drive the pin completely out. Now, maybe, the recoil spring plug will come out and you can get the recoil spring out from the front of the slide. If that doesn't work, you can try having the pin drilled out, as I mentioned previously. Jim

October 27, 2007, 05:05 PM	#20
randames22 Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Gardiner Montana at the North entrance to Yellowstone Nat'l Park Posts: 27	Well..............it's just half a pin off. Half of the pin runs into the rail below.....................crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was a really good idea but it just runs into the rail. And not enough to let the plug out either. Still working on it though.

October 27, 2007, 09:01 PM	#21
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I was afraid of that, but it has been a long time since I had one of those apart. So, the only choice would appear to be to drill out the pin. Unless you have or can find a drill press or a milling machine, I think it is gunsmith time. Maybe a smith with the gun in hand can figure out another way to do the job, but I think drilling out that pin is likely the best way to go. Jim

October 28, 2007, 03:00 PM	#22
randames22 Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Gardiner Montana at the North entrance to Yellowstone Nat'l Park Posts: 27	Okay, are you speaking of the pin that holds that plug in? I'm really brainstorming to figure out a way to take that slide off. I'm sure I can come up with something but if anyone has better ideas, PLEASE pass them on! Thanks.

October 30, 2007, 10:43 AM	#23
randames22 Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Gardiner Montana at the North entrance to Yellowstone Nat'l Park Posts: 27	Do you think there would be a problem to take that pin out throught the top intead of pushing it down? Is it tapered or shouldered so as not to come out the top?