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September 29, 2014, 02:17 PM | #1 |
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Thinking about an SPR build
First and foremost, what does SPR stand for? I know what it is, but dont know the meaning.
I want a slightly higher end rifle. 18" barrel, 1/7 twist/chrome lined, no quad rail (something slim and lightweight), chrome bolt, 2 stage trigger and magpul furniture. I guess my basic questions are this, is there a complete upper that fits the criteria? Also how about a quality lower? Any suggestions?
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"The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down." "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." -John Wayne |
September 29, 2014, 05:10 PM | #2 | |
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SPR stands for "Special Purpose Rifle." The idea was to build an AR15 that had was more accurate and therefore could make effective hits out to longer ranges than the typical M4, while still keeping the qualities that made the M4 handy (auto fire, compact size). The 18" barrel was chosen as a compromise between the 14.5" length of the M4 and the better velocity of the 20" M16.
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The whole 18" is because that is pretty much the sweet spot for compact without losing much velocity to the 20" barrel. If you go shorter, you lose more velocity. If you go longer, you gain a tiny amount of velocity for the extra 2". So I suppose the first questions you have to ask yourself are: 1) Is this a precision type rifle where a high degree of accuracy and a flat trajectory are very important; or 2) Is this a rifle where barrel longevity is more important and 2-3 MOA accuracy with ball ammo is sufficient (maybe 1-2MOA with match ammo)? If you want number 1, you probably want to go the 18" stainless barrel route rather than chrome-lined. If you want number 2, then you can drop your barrel to 16", and there are literally hundreds of ready-made uppers you can choose from that meet your criteria. As to lowers, pretty much anything that is in spec and has the holes drilled in the right place, takes the magazines you want to use, etc. will work. It is hard to go wrong here unless you are going for some custom billet lower, or a lower made out of some non-7075T6 Aluminium substance. |
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September 29, 2014, 08:54 PM | #3 |
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Check out PSA for upper options between the two ends that Bartholomew posted: precision and longevity.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...uppers/18.html I like this one: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...ng-handle.html |
September 30, 2014, 02:59 AM | #4 |
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The SPR is meant to be a more precise AR with capabilities out to 600m. I run a DPMS MK12 SPR. With my loads using Hornady 75gr BTHP's I am at .327moa at 100yds. If you do a Google search you will see most use stainless barrels.
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September 30, 2014, 08:39 AM | #5 |
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Thank you all for the info. I just assumed that you could find them with chrome lined barrels. I plan on putting a low 1-4 power optic on it. I just like the thought of a do everything SD rifle.
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"The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down." "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." -John Wayne |
September 30, 2014, 08:46 AM | #6 |
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That is exactly what I did.
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September 30, 2014, 09:15 AM | #7 | ||
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Quote:
As for chrome-lined barrels, it all depends on what level of accuracy you need. When the Marines and Army were exploring the Designated Marksman/Squad Advanced Marksman concept, they both experimented with stainless match barrels and reached the conclusion that very few of the people in their study had the level of skill necessary to make use of the stainless barrels. Basically, the shooters didn't see any accuracy difference between a good chrome-lined barrel and a stainless barrel. However, they were also using M855 ammo, which was probably the limiting factor on accuracy and explains why the barrel made no difference. When SOCOM looked at the same concept (an accurized AR), they did go with the stainless barrel, even though they have a much higher training rate and the stainless barrel isn't going to last as long. Of course, they also were using the 77gr Mk262 match ammo and had high standards of training and more regular refresher training. So some questions to ask are: 1) What are my accuracy requirements - how big a target do I need to hit and at what distance do I need to hit that target? 2) If you give me a rifle that can meet those requirements, do I have the necessary skill to actually make it hit at those ranges? 3) What kind of ammo can I afford to feed it? If you buy a $600 AR15 and feed it cheap 55gr FMJ, you are going to get 3-4 MOA accuracy. If you buy a $3,000 top of the line precision AR15 from Knights or Noveske and feed it cheap 55gr FMJ, you are going to get 3-4 MOA accuracy. If you aren't going to handload or go with premium ammo, there isn't much point in spending money for an accuracy capability you'll never use. Quote:
That approach also overlooks one of the great benefits of the AR15 - they are extremely modular. Instead of trying to cram it all into one rifle and make that one rifle do everything OK, it is much easier to take advantage of that modularity. Have a red dot and a scope in quick detach, return-to-zero mounts and swap them out as necessary. Don't need the <insert piece of gear here> for today's shooting event? Take it off. Want a precision AR15 and an AR you can use for blasting without burning out the barrel? Get an extra upper and swap them out. Having said all that, an 18" chrome lined barrel with a 1-4x optic is going to be extremely versatile and be able to do a lot of tasks well. I'll just tell you right now to save weight where ever you can because it is real easy to add it back on with various accessories. |
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September 30, 2014, 09:42 AM | #8 |
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Along with weight,budget may be a factor,also.
Given a 1x to 4x scope,IMO,a barrel that may fit into a balanced package for you is the Daniel Defense "S2W".Its made to some Navy spec. Its hammer forged,18 in,and chrome lined.The contour is interesting.S2W stands for strength to weight. Instead of the typical stepped cylindrical profile,its a contoured taper like a typical sporting rifle barrel. Its lighter than an H-bar,without being the skinny M-4 Price about $270 or so,last time I looked. Mine is + or - 1 MOA with 77 gr handloads.Not a bragger,but it will whack prairie dogs as far as you can use a 1x to 4x scope on them. For ball park the same price,or a little more,look at what White Oak offers,at least to compare.They are not chrome lined. If you want to blaze rapid fire,the chrome makes sense. Squeezing one round at a time for accuracy,chrome is not so necessary. Look at Yankee Hill for a forend.There are others,of course.YHM has a strong attachment and moderate price.They make one that only has a little bit of rail on it.Its customizable . The Rock River NM 2 stage trigger is not a bad choice. Look at the Rock River ring mounts.I like them,reasonable price. |
October 2, 2014, 06:57 AM | #9 |
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What do you guys recommend for a lightweight slim hand guard? I don't really want a quad rail as my dd has one already. Also would want it free floating.
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"The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down." "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." -John Wayne |
October 2, 2014, 10:17 AM | #10 |
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Look at Troy, Midwest Industries, Knights Armament, or any other big names. Alternatievely, the VLTOR CASSV is a unique option that utilizes the flat-top picatinny rail to attach to the rifle.
I have a Midwest Industries SS rail on my 18" build. The modular design lends to lighter weight and variety in accessory placement than a standard 12/3/6/9 o'clock quad rail allows. The newer keymod and Magpul M-LOK type systems are easier to attach accessories. MI M-LOK rail example: http://vtsupply.com/mi-midwest-indus...handguard.html TFL member Plouffedaddy has some info on the M-LOK and some handguards on Youtube (Mr. Guns N Gear). https://www.youtube.com/user/Mrgunsn...ch?query=M-LOK
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- Jon Disequilibrium facilitates accommodation. 9mm vs .45 ACP? The answer is .429 |
October 2, 2014, 02:28 PM | #11 | |
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October 2, 2014, 02:45 PM | #12 |
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I really like that Midwest, especially in OD green. For an SPR I would want a 12 inch correct?
Also, what else would I need to be able to put that on a rifle?
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"The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down." "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." -John Wayne |
October 2, 2014, 03:38 PM | #13 | |
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October 3, 2014, 08:25 AM | #14 |
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Cool, thanks for the info. I am learning a lot. What optics are you guys running on yours?
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"The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down." "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." -John Wayne |
October 4, 2014, 11:25 AM | #15 |
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I've used a Nikon M-223 1-4x20 and a Burris Fullfield II 3-9x40. I would like to get a Weaver 1-5x24 Tactical. Depends on what I want to do with the rifle. If I'm varmint hunting I like the added power and field of view of the Burris. For "tactical" shooting in local league matches the Nikon works well, but imprecision of the point blank reticule makes me twitch for longer range shooting (3.5 MOA dot covers part of the target).
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- Jon Disequilibrium facilitates accommodation. 9mm vs .45 ACP? The answer is .429 |
October 4, 2014, 12:38 PM | #16 |
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"The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down." "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." -John Wayne |
October 4, 2014, 12:48 PM | #17 |
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Buy what you like,but at least take a good look at that Daniel Defense 18 in chrome lined 1in 7 S2W contour barrel.
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October 4, 2014, 05:33 PM | #18 |
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I will for sure, I love my ddm4v1 after all.
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"The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down." "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." -John Wayne |
October 6, 2014, 03:22 PM | #19 |
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A good chrome lined barrel won't loose too much accuracy. Mine can shoot MOA with good ammo.
I'm using a PSA CHF barrel. I was actually surprised by the accuracy. I would say that 1.5 MOA with decent ammo is plenty for inside 500yds... Unless you just want the absolute best groups shooting paper. An illuminated reticle 1-4x scope can be used in a similar manner as a red dot on 1x, with some practice you can do it on 4x too. If you're looking in the $500 range, I would ditch the secondary red dot in favor of higher quality in the main optic. I am running a vortex PST 1-4x and I like it. On my next build I am thinking of trying something different though, just for variety. |
October 6, 2014, 07:28 PM | #20 |
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Skip the wannabes. You get what you pay for. White Oak Armament is what you want.
My SPR runs WOA's 5.56mm upper receiver (BCG included) with 18" SS 1/7 twist tube (w/ Wylde chamber & PRI gas block), free-floated inside a PRI 3rd Gen tube. Using factory 77gn match ammo (e.g., Norma) it will put 5-shots into 3.5" at 400yds consistently. That's the farther I've shot it. Above set-up includes: Vortex 30mm 2.5x-10x in ADM QD mount, Harris bipod, Geisele DMR trigger, MagPul grip & CTR stock w/ LT RISR cheekpiece, and BFG sling. Last edited by agtman; October 9, 2014 at 07:15 PM. |
October 6, 2014, 08:08 PM | #21 | |
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October 6, 2014, 08:24 PM | #22 |
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This is the Stag 3G (upper only). 18" stainless, fluted. 1/8 twist, Samson Evolution tube, comes with a matched BCG. Not sure what you're expecting, but none of this style upper will be as light as a standard M4 format upper.
$715.00 http://www.ar15sales.com/store/page2.html |
October 7, 2014, 03:52 PM | #23 |
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That stag upper is sharp. I may have to give it a look.
I received an offer of an upper with a WOA barrel, I am trying to work it out.
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"The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down." "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." -John Wayne |
October 7, 2014, 06:36 PM | #24 |
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I opted for the Stag because I liked the build and because I could put a WOA barrel on it down the road, however the Stag barrel has proven to be pretty darn good, even though I would prefer a Wylde chamber rather than a standard 5.56 chamber.
If I had the chance to choose between the two, and didn't have to wait half a year to get it - I'd go White Oak. |
October 10, 2014, 11:08 AM | #25 |
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The deal for the WOA upper fell through. I did take a 20" PSA rifle on trade for something else though. I know without the free floating handguard/and it has a chrome lined barrel the accuracy isnt going to be near what a good SPR build would be.
I am going to mount some optics and test it though.
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"The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down." "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." -John Wayne |
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