why no silver bullets?

skizzums · March 3, 2014, 09:29 PM

i am sure this has probably been discussed, but really, other than cost, wouldnt silver make a great bullet? easy to cast, slightly heavier than lead and very malleable

i understand its expensive, but not reallt that expensive, its right about a buck a gram, so a couple bucks for a 55gr bullet, i would think thts a small price for a benchrester, and would you need a jacket?
it would only be viable if the jacket was not needed, if it still needs a jacket, theres no poiint

jwrowland77 · March 3, 2014, 09:32 PM

Couple bucks for a 55gr, then you're looking at $100 for a 50 count box. I'd get out of competitive shooting if it cost that much.

skizzums · March 3, 2014, 09:38 PM

lets put cost aside for a sec, outside of that, woud it actually make a better bullet?

Jimro · March 3, 2014, 09:38 PM

Silver actually makes pretty horrible cast bullets.

Too hard a metal to expand in game, poor accuracy from every platform its been tried in combined with the inherent expense of the metal make it a non-starter.

Jimro

NoSecondBest · March 3, 2014, 09:40 PM

Leads been working fine for a very long time. Also, cast bullets under 30 caliber usually don't work as well as the bigger diameter bullets. In fact, they don't work very well at all. What do you suppose it would cost to cast a 180 grain bullet? How much better would it shoot? (maybe no better....no reason it should based on just weight and malability). If you only shoot one or two bullets a year and are making a six figure salary, it might have just a minute amount of merit....but I don't think you could measure the improved value. Hey, why not gold? It does everything better than silver. Seriously, you need to find out if it's worth the extra cost, works better, has a need, and last but most important.....compare it to lead and see what you've gained vs. cost compare. I suspect it's a bad investment. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Jimro · March 3, 2014, 09:41 PM

For further reading:

http://www.patriciabriggs.com/articl...rbullets.shtml

and viewing:

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/my...ad-bullets.htm

Jimro

4runnerman · March 3, 2014, 09:41 PM

Because werwolf's don't exist

. No really I think the cost factor wold be more than one would want.

skizzums · March 3, 2014, 10:12 PM

that was a pretty good article, i got a good laugh when i saw the horse!!!

oh well, no magic bullet as they say

ghbucky01 · March 3, 2014, 10:41 PM

I think you should try it!

Seriously!

uh, and ummm, yeah.. where do you test your loads? ..

Clark · March 3, 2014, 10:44 PM

In the 1950s I watched the Lone Ranger. He had Silver bullets.

My father, gun design chief engineer, had Silver tipped 30-06 bullets in the attic.

skizzums · March 3, 2014, 10:50 PM

i was actually going to do it, i have a ton of those 1gram ingots from, but after reading that it will wreck the mold, i think ill pass

Nick_C_S · March 3, 2014, 11:00 PM

Quote:

wouldnt silver make a great bullet? easy to cast, slightly heavier than lead and very malleable.

Actually silver is LESS dense than lead; thus, ballistically inferior.
SG of lead = 11.35; Silver = 10.49.

As far as malleability, it's kind of hard. Copper actually has near ideal malleability for bullets.

The best material for bullets is Uranium - more dense than lead, and the perfect malleability. Of course, there's that whole radioactive thing. . .

Jim243 · March 4, 2014, 02:23 AM

The last time I saw silver bullets used was in 1952 by Clayton Moore (The Lone Ranger). I use to use Silver Tips in 9 mm all the time but those are actually aluminum.

For vampires and werewolves I use a silver stake and a lot of garlic (LOL).

Jim

leadcounsel · March 4, 2014, 05:34 AM

Is this a serious question...?

The answers seem glaringly obvious. Since the best bullets are cheap, dense, and soft material, lead is ideally suited and perfect for bullets.

Cost. You can't ignore this. May not seem like much for an individual bullet, but en-mass the cost is huge. Same reason currency is no longer made from silver. It's too expensive, particularly to waste in an expendable bullet.

Box of a hundred bullets might weigh a couple pounds. Think about a few pounds of lead at $1-2 per pound, versus a few pounds of silver at $20+ per OUNCE, or $320+ (current value) per pound!!!!

Heck, just in the last couple years silver hit around $50 per oz... and has often touched $30 per oz in the last year or so. Those would be some extremely expensive bullets!

Per bullet, the lead cost is practically zero. Yet, considering lead bullets, copper jackets, and brass cases and powder and primers cost somewhere around 50 cents give or take, a silver bullet might cost 10 or 20 times that... not sure I'm willing to pay $5 or $10 each for my 9mm rounds!

Copper makes a cheap, excellent jacket, but even copper prices have become quite high in the last few decades, as evidenced by the US mint turning to alternatives in the penny, and the rising costs in PMs used in ammunition. Anyone notice the rising cost of brass, that stuff most people used to just throw out. Now, every time you pull the trigger your gun spits out a nickel!

Silver is less dense, and less malleable, than lead. So it would be a step backwards in performance.

Tom Matiska · March 4, 2014, 07:52 AM

melting point 1763F vs 621F for lead.

lee n. field · March 4, 2014, 08:16 AM

Quote:

i am sure this has probably been discussed, but really, other than cost, wouldnt silver make a great bullet? easy to cast, slightly heavier than lead and very malleable

My understanding is that it does not cast well.

mehavey · March 4, 2014, 08:23 AM

Quote:

The best material for bullets is Uranium - more dense than lead, and the
perfect malleability. Of course, there's that whole radioactive thing.

Extract of Fact Sheet Issued by the Health Physics Society (Feb`10):

Studies have been conducted of workers and other per-sons who have ingested or inhaled [depleted] uranium, and there is no known association between low-level DU exposure and adverse health effects, including birth defects. In large quantities, DU exposure can cause skin or lung irritation, but only soldiers in the immediate vicinity of an attack that involves DU are potentially exposed to these levels of contamination.

Soldiers with wounds containing fragments of DU shrapnel may develop ef-fects at the wound sites. The health consequences decrease quickly once the DU is removed, but it is almost impossible to remove all DU fragments. Persons ex-posed to very large inhalation doses of uranium have shown minor, transitory kidney effects, which typically disappear within days to a few weeks after exposure.

Persons inhaling insoluble particulates that lodge in the lung may be at elevated risk of developing lung cancer many years later, particularly if they are smokers. But an excess of lung cancer has yet to be demonstrated in uranium workers or others exposed acutely or chronically to uranium.
https://hps.org/documents/dufactsheet.pdf

The GAP shouldn't feel bad about being kept in the dark, however.
As with all things political in war, truth is the first casualty.
~~~~~~~~~

That said, 2,100° is a bit high for my Lyman ProMelt.

Bezoar · March 4, 2014, 08:24 AM

the setup required to actually cast a silver bullet that could be used without having to be machined, well lets just say that even the best of times youd have a 50-60 percent remelt rate, the cost would get you a new suburban.

Garycw · March 4, 2014, 10:03 AM

I just bought one .45 ACP. $26... But it's 1oz.

Don P · March 4, 2014, 10:06 AM

Polish up dem lead bullets and they'll shine like silver.

Jim243 · March 4, 2014, 11:14 AM

I'll be, someone actually makes a silver bullet, even if it is a collectors example.

My fear is how much longer will LEAD bullets will be made or allowed. With the environmental impact that lead has and millions of rounds being fired each year, I can see lead going the way of the doo-doo bird (extinct). I have never tried lead free. Not sure what the results would be.

Jim

JD0x0 · March 4, 2014, 11:15 AM

Quote:

The best material for bullets is Uranium - more dense than lead, and the perfect malleability. Of course, there's that whole radioactive thing. . .

Depleted Uranium is the answer! I've seen some 'depleted uranium' buckshot for sale before. Not sure if it was a gag or real, but depleted uranium pellets or bullets would likely work great. Especially with pellets, since a .33 cal pellet will have more weight and therefore a higher sectional density and ballistic coefficient as a pellet the same size, made our of lead or steel.

Colt46 · March 4, 2014, 11:40 AM

Of course lead bullets are never pure lead. All sorts of things are added to the mix to give the proper hardness and density particular manufacturers are looking for.
Their advertising boasts of silver in a 'proprietary blend of seven other virgin elements...'
How much silver is actually used is for them to know.

wogpotter · March 4, 2014, 12:32 PM

IIRC "Guns & Ammo" magazine did a test as a series on "TV shooting" & used silver bullets in .45 Colt duplicating the Lone Ranger's load.

They were terrible

Wouldn't stabilize in rifling with a twist designed for lead density. Didn't cast well with poor edges on the grooves & were a huge pain to load because of the hardness difference.

WIL TERRY · March 4, 2014, 01:00 PM

THOSE WHO DO NOT READ HISTORY are condemned to repeat it.

Lordy.....

March 3, 2014, 09:29 PM	#1
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	why no silver bullets? i am sure this has probably been discussed, but really, other than cost, wouldnt silver make a great bullet? easy to cast, slightly heavier than lead and very malleable i understand its expensive, but not reallt that expensive, its right about a buck a gram, so a couple bucks for a 55gr bullet, i would think thts a small price for a benchrester, and would you need a jacket? it would only be viable if the jacket was not needed, if it still needs a jacket, theres no poiint __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

March 3, 2014, 09:38 PM	#3
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	lets put cost aside for a sec, outside of that, woud it actually make a better bullet? __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

March 3, 2014, 09:38 PM	#4
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	Silver actually makes pretty horrible cast bullets. Too hard a metal to expand in game, poor accuracy from every platform its been tried in combined with the inherent expense of the metal make it a non-starter. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

March 3, 2014, 09:41 PM	#6
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	For further reading: http://www.patriciabriggs.com/articl...rbullets.shtml and viewing: http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/my...ad-bullets.htm Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

March 3, 2014, 09:41 PM	#7
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	Because werwolf's don't exist. No really I think the cost factor wold be more than one would want. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

March 3, 2014, 09:32 PM	#2
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	Couple bucks for a 55gr, then you're looking at $100 for a 50 count box. I'd get out of competitive shooting if it cost that much.

March 3, 2014, 09:40 PM	#5
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Leads been working fine for a very long time. Also, cast bullets under 30 caliber usually don't work as well as the bigger diameter bullets. In fact, they don't work very well at all. What do you suppose it would cost to cast a 180 grain bullet? How much better would it shoot? (maybe no better....no reason it should based on just weight and malability). If you only shoot one or two bullets a year and are making a six figure salary, it might have just a minute amount of merit....but I don't think you could measure the improved value. Hey, why not gold? It does everything better than silver. Seriously, you need to find out if it's worth the extra cost, works better, has a need, and last but most important.....compare it to lead and see what you've gained vs. cost compare. I suspect it's a bad investment. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

March 3, 2014, 10:12 PM	#8
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	that was a pretty good article, i got a good laugh when i saw the horse!!! oh well, no magic bullet as they say __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

March 3, 2014, 10:41 PM	#9
ghbucky01 Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2014 Location: Northern, KY Posts: 176	I think you should try it! Seriously! uh, and ummm, yeah.. where do you test your loads? ..

March 3, 2014, 10:44 PM	#10
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	In the 1950s I watched the Lone Ranger. He had Silver bullets. My father, gun design chief engineer, had Silver tipped 30-06 bullets in the attic. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

March 3, 2014, 10:50 PM	#11
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	i was actually going to do it, i have a ton of those 1gram ingots from, but after reading that it will wreck the mold, i think ill pass __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

March 4, 2014, 02:23 AM	#13
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	The last time I saw silver bullets used was in 1952 by Clayton Moore (The Lone Ranger). I use to use Silver Tips in 9 mm all the time but those are actually aluminum. For vampires and werewolves I use a silver stake and a lot of garlic (LOL). Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

March 4, 2014, 05:34 AM	#14
leadcounsel Junior member Join Date: September 8, 2005 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 2,119	Is this a serious question...? The answers seem glaringly obvious. Since the best bullets are cheap, dense, and soft material, lead is ideally suited and perfect for bullets. Cost. You can't ignore this. May not seem like much for an individual bullet, but en-mass the cost is huge. Same reason currency is no longer made from silver. It's too expensive, particularly to waste in an expendable bullet. Box of a hundred bullets might weigh a couple pounds. Think about a few pounds of lead at $1-2 per pound, versus a few pounds of silver at $20+ per OUNCE, or $320+ (current value) per pound!!!! Heck, just in the last couple years silver hit around $50 per oz... and has often touched $30 per oz in the last year or so. Those would be some extremely expensive bullets! Per bullet, the lead cost is practically zero. Yet, considering lead bullets, copper jackets, and brass cases and powder and primers cost somewhere around 50 cents give or take, a silver bullet might cost 10 or 20 times that... not sure I'm willing to pay $5 or $10 each for my 9mm rounds! Copper makes a cheap, excellent jacket, but even copper prices have become quite high in the last few decades, as evidenced by the US mint turning to alternatives in the penny, and the rising costs in PMs used in ammunition. Anyone notice the rising cost of brass, that stuff most people used to just throw out. Now, every time you pull the trigger your gun spits out a nickel! Silver is less dense, and less malleable, than lead. So it would be a step backwards in performance. Last edited by leadcounsel; March 4, 2014 at 05:48 AM.

March 4, 2014, 07:52 AM	#15
Tom Matiska Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2000 Location: Wilkes-Barre, Pa Posts: 1,029	melting point 1763F vs 621F for lead. __________________ A gun is like a parachute... when you need one you usually need it pretty bad...

March 4, 2014, 08:24 AM	#18
Bezoar Junior member Join Date: October 19, 2004 Location: michigan Posts: 578	the setup required to actually cast a silver bullet that could be used without having to be machined, well lets just say that even the best of times youd have a 50-60 percent remelt rate, the cost would get you a new suburban.

March 4, 2014, 10:03 AM	#19
Garycw Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2011 Location: Ohio-Kentucky - florida Posts: 1,221	I just bought one .45 ACP. $26... But it's 1oz.

March 4, 2014, 10:06 AM	#20
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Polish up dem lead bullets and they'll shine like silver. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

March 4, 2014, 11:14 AM	#21
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	I'll be, someone actually makes a silver bullet, even if it is a collectors example. My fear is how much longer will LEAD bullets will be made or allowed. With the environmental impact that lead has and millions of rounds being fired each year, I can see lead going the way of the doo-doo bird (extinct). I have never tried lead free. Not sure what the results would be. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

March 4, 2014, 11:40 AM	#23
Colt46 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: Campbell Ca Posts: 1,090	Oregon Trail boasts silver bullets in their advertising Of course lead bullets are never pure lead. All sorts of things are added to the mix to give the proper hardness and density particular manufacturers are looking for. Their advertising boasts of silver in a 'proprietary blend of seven other virgin elements...' How much silver is actually used is for them to know.

March 4, 2014, 12:32 PM	#24
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	IIRC "Guns & Ammo" magazine did a test as a series on "TV shooting" & used silver bullets in .45 Colt duplicating the Lone Ranger's load. They were terrible Wouldn't stabilize in rifling with a twist designed for lead density. Didn't cast well with poor edges on the grooves & were a huge pain to load because of the hardness difference. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

March 4, 2014, 01:00 PM	#25
WIL TERRY Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2000 Location: BLACK HILLS Posts: 1,322	THOSE WHO DO NOT READ HISTORY are condemned to repeat it. Lordy.....