Product Review: CTS Gen2 Motorized Brass Trimmer

[4runnerman]

Thanks for the review Mr Revolver guy. I took it the way you meant it to be. It is a little more than I want to spend,but sure looks nice. I think for the time being I will just hang with the little crow. The 223 is the only one I shoot in high volume.
My 6BR and 308, I kind of like to use the old wilson manual trimmer. I get kinda anal with those two cases,They are my match rifles and all has to be perfect,so I do one case at a time by hand.

Again-Nice review

[Unclenick]

Gracey and Giraud (less and more expensive than CTS, respectively) both have custom cutters that deburr and chamfer at the same time they trim. I own the Giraud and can say this multiple cutting has a plus and a minus factor.

The plus is obvious. Speed and the number times you have to handle the brass. There are so many videos of the Giraud on YouTube that I won't bother to make my own. Here's one that goes at a relaxed pace and completes a case in about 6 seconds. The Giraud also has the cutter in a cylindrical Plexiglass surround that contains the brass shavings until you choose to open it and vacuum it out.

The drawback, as opposed to trimming length separately, is that unless you invest in Lapua or Norma brass, you will likely have a couple of thousandths of wall thickness variation in your case necks. Because the trimmer has the outside of the case register with the shell adapter, these cases will chamfer unevenly even if the outside deburring does not. Also, if you use a conventional sizing die with internal expander, you will often find the whole neck pulled off-axis several thousandths by the expander operation. This means the case mouth is not concentric with the case adapter and you can incur both exterior and interior offset of the chamfer and deburring cuts.

I've not found the above to be of consequence to accuracy thus far, though I've rejected a few extreme examples as not being brass I wanted to base a precision load on anyway. Just another element of sorting.

[F. Guffey]

http://www.giraudtool.com/prod02.htm

http://www.matchprep.com/trimmer.htm

F. Guffey

Not sure how someone could get their fingers into a cutter, their is a cover that prevents shavings and cuttings from covering the shop and at the same time, prevent trimming fingers and nails.

Then I said I trim cases without cuttings and filings, I noticed trimming a lot does not take much time, but time and distance should be considered, as with the Blackout Crow was referring to, he indicated it could be necessary to trim 3/8 inch (.375") from the case. That would be 37.5 inches of trimming when forming cases.

F. Guffey

[10mmshooter]

This post is per F.Guffey's request.
I am "Chiming in" as suggested.

We manufacture the CTS product line and would like to provide the facts regarding all of the above comments.

"Mr. Revolver guy" contacted us out of the blue regarding a power trimmer, at no time were we told that he "posts" on blogs nor were we told that he publishes an on-line magazine, as it were.
As in a few of the previous posts from individuals that have contacted us regarding pricing on any of our products, info is supplied as requested, no sales gimmicks, lost leaders etc.

The only thing we do w/ out mentioning it is include an extra tool or part, or apply a discount AFTER the sale and transfer of funds, (we refund a percentage), why? because we can.

The aforementioned order/purchase was made, then and after the fact we had been informed of the intent to publish the product results, as a matter of fact we were asked permission, "sure,why not". At no time was the question raised regarding publishing the cost, it never came up.

At the time of the order, the selling price of the CTS GEN 2 Power trimmer
was 325.00 + 17.00 shipping. The order was made just under the wire before the new pricing went into effect and the customer was not informed of the upcoming price increase at the time of the order nor at anytime previous to that.

Our actual shipping cost is 24.00 due to insurance, sig. required etc.

In regards to Mr. Larry Willis, prior to these uninformed comments posted, Mr. Willis
was unknown to us, but after researching why we were mentioned in concert w/ this individual we took the time to find out..... Mr. Willis owns a reloading supply/equipment co. approx 85 miles east of us, I called and spoke with him, for the first time, yesterday.

As expected, typical for the most part within the industry, he was very professional, knowledgeable, and downright pleasant to talk with. Again, typical for the most part.

For the last 35+ years I have re-loaded approx. 1,500-2,000 rnds. per week, during all these years if anyone has made mistakes, it has been my-self, as well as learning what works and what does not.

We shoot a bunch and do not own "closet queens", our weapons are tools, nothing more, nothing less.

We do not post on any blogs until now,we do not post any videos of our products,
any of the aforementioned is done solely by the purchasers and we find out after the fact,usually from a third party.

The last thing I would like to say is we are VERY fortunate to have the customer base that we do, all of our customers could not be any more professional, polite and courteous.

I sincerely hope this clears Mr. Guffey's predisposed notions of a " well organized
and conspiratorial" act.

Anyway, thank you all for the opportunity and "invitation" to "chime in",and clear the air.

Jim.
CTS Engineering

[higgite]

Jim,

I'll admit that I was a little skeptical for reasons that are no longer relevant, as you have hopefully cleared the air. Like I posted earlier, if I didn't already have a Giraud, I would give your trimmer a serious look. It looks to be first class. Best of luck to you and the OP and thanks for "chiming in".

[acrijos]

Jim, do you have a web page to check the different options available and be able to make an informed comparison?

[Vance]

No web page yet. Email is [email protected] .

[Chili Palmer]

Jesus he was reviewing something. If you don't like the first 20 words hit the back button and move on.

[F. Guffey]

I did not questions all the answers, the questions I did ask upset some and for that I do not offer an apology . As a suggestion to anyone that does product review: . “I find trimming the most time-consuming step in the process of reloading and up until now absolutely hated it” begs the reply “If you hate doing it, do not do it”, or “find another hobby”. Then I ask another question, it is not like I did not see this coming, when questions are asked about trimming cases is the answer going to be “If you are among the elite like the discerning individuals that own, shoot and reload the M1 Garands”. I ask because that is one of the answers I got. In sales that would be called insult through innuendo.

I have the Gracey, Dillon 1200, home made stuff, Lee etc. and my favorite, form/trim dies, I do not get into mortal combat with reloading, even when a grain of tumbling media gets stuck in a flash hole.

Thank you for taking the time, I believe you should have been involved from the beginning, but, as you said, you did not have the opportunity.

You are in Florida, and I ask about Florida, seems it was snowing, meaning if it is snowing how can I? be in Florida, and that answer implies I was not listening.

Again, thank you for taking the time.

F. Guffey

[Mr.RevolverGuy]

I have no idea what was just said.

I am sorry for posting this at all and trying to be of some help to the community.

Matter of fact Staff members if this is causing a problem please delete the thread.

[1stmar]

The thread was useful and helpful to me. If it helped me, I'm sure it will help others. I think it should stand.

[Brian Pfleuger]

The review is well written and useful, despite the manufactured and baseless controversy which followed. No sense in deleting the thread. Readers can pretty easily sort the wheat from the chaff.

However, the nonsense ends *now* or posting privileges will be endangered.

[cuinhel]

This is an excellent review of a product. After reading some of the crazy comments I checked out your blog page and some of previous posts and that is one quick way to discern the fact that you are not working in anyway, shape or form for the manufacturer of this product. Some people some need to move in and stop posting their rather confusing and senseless posts.

I have been a long time lurker on this site and being an avid reloader I too agree that trimming brass is my least favorite part of reloading. I unfortunate just purchased the RCBS Prep Center and I love the thing, it trims, deburs and chamfers in one swoop. I would highly consider this setup if I didn't buy what I did. I wish I would of seen this before.

[4runnerman]

I have been a long time lurker on this site and being an avid reloader I too agree that trimming brass is my least favorite part of reloading. I unfortunate just purchased the RCBS Prep Center and I love the thing, it trims, deburs and chamfers in one swoop. I would highly consider this setup if I didn't buy what I did. I wish I would of seen this before.

How do you set trim length on the Prep Center?. I have been wanting to get one due to the large amount of 223 I do. Still using a Wilson Hand trimmer-One at a time. Looking at maybe getting the Little Crow for just the 223.

[Mr.RevolverGuy]

This is part 3 of the series of videos and possibly the final of the initial review series. I say initial because I plan to keep very detailed records on the number of trimmings of each caliber run through this trimmer and report back.

As with the second video this idea was brought about by questions via email and private messages I have received from the inquisitive readers that have seen the first two videos. This is by no means a scientific experiment meant to provide an unquestionable answer. It is meant to help those with concerns or questions about noise discern the difference between the two tools I had running on the reloading bench during the first review/video while bringing about a little more clarity to the actual noise level of the CTS Gen2 Trimmer.

During this video on display is my old IPhone with a decibel meter on it. Again not meant to be scientific I know the IPhone is no where near capable of providing a true DB reading, but I believe it does assist in giving us an idea of the noise level of both devices. One other thing to keep in mind is that anything on or attached to the bench will only reverberate the noise or hum given off by these devices and there are 3 presses attached to this reloading bench at the time this test was conducted, but all loose items were removed.

DB Meter reading: Baseline when absolutely quiet in the shop — 50DB

CTS Gen2 Peak Meter Reading — 78DB
CTS Gen2 Average Meter Reading — 75DB
CTS Gen2 Average Noise Level — 25DB

Hornady Trio Peak Meter Reading — 91DB
Hornady Trio Average Meter Reading — 88DB
Hornady Trio Average Noise Level — 38DB

CTS Gen2 Trimmer Noise Video

Hope this helps.

[cuinhel]

4runnerman, I will PM You, I don't want to derail the thread.

[Psychbiker]

Nice review and info OP.

Did a forum member really contact Jim of CTS regarding this review? classic.

I have a 223 and 308 trimmer from Jim/CTS. Great guy! I'm on the fence regarding throwing down $300 for a trimmer and the more for other calipers. Is the cutting clean enough nit to have deburr? I've been messing with speed on the drill press with the CTS chuck drive type.

Trimming is the worst especially touching brass one by one. Wonder how this compares to the dillon 1200. Seen that mated to a hornady lnl with good results.

[Theojt]

Thanks to MrRevolverGuy for the review. I was looking into this and found that CTS now has a website. They also have a new trimmer that does everything I need in a single unit. Was originally resigned to getting a CTS Gen 2 *and* a RCBS Trim Mate because I wanted crimp removal, deburr, chamfer, and no one had it all. Until I saw this and ordered immediately:

http://www.ctstrimmer.com/power-trim...s-pro-600.html

Can't wait to get it. Very nice indeed, and for a reasonable price.

[Mr.RevolverGuy]

Did you order one ---- wait I was a little to early would have loved to have a single unit. CRAP

[Mr.RevolverGuy]

Never mind I see you ordered one --- What a bummer for me that is. If this all in one unit holds up like the one I have reviewed it should be a real winner.

[RC20]

Start with price then try to sell you one? I really don't care if you own one or not

I published this review for something I purchased, I was uncomfortable publishing price without the manufactures permission which is why I didn't post price. I prefer you go to them for that. I don't want to be dragged into court for something so minor as pricing change and me having to keep the price updated. And I have seen someone over a blog be dragged into court for not keeping the price updated in something they wrote and they were held liable for it.

I love it! (first part)

Second part is a bit paranoid me thinks, I put that sort of info out all the time. I paid X amount for it.

I am fine with my Little Crow Gun works drill trimmer that works off the shoulder like the Giraurd. For the life of me I don't know how they do it, but it trims them back to spec when the RCBS tool would not (always a guess)
My brother had the Geruard and loves it, but setup is a bit much. His answer was to collect a lot of brass and trim it and store it and he has lots.

We both do 30-06 so he set it up for that. I had him trim a bunch of 223 brass for me and have enough to last forever.

On the other hand the Little Crow is only (horrors I published a price) something around $80 and you could get 3 or 4 of those and the new ones you can get caliber variations as long as its the same parent case I think (i.e. 270, 3006, 25-06 maybe etc.

[RC20]

I have tried to keep this enough above board as to not get censored, will see, but I did feel somewhat compelled.

As usually, I find F. Guffeys comments meandering down a very twisty lane leaving me even more confused than I usually am.

To assist him in his research I would like to inform him that I also find the trimming process exceedingly boring and tedious (I get a book and read when I am doing the rest of the case prep though sadly I can't do that with my Little Crow)

I do take umbrage that Mr. F. Guffeys when you tell me how I should enjoy my hobby and that if I don't like it the way he does I should do something different.

That in turn leads me to have thoughts in dark directions I am not supposed to put in writing so I will not. I hope Mr. F. Guffeys can come out of his tangled world enough to appreciate that I don't appreciate him telling me how to enjoy my life any more than I tell him how to enjoy his.

I do know that I was taught that when I was wrong I should apologize as soon as I realized it, be it from my own back-scatered thoughts or someone pointed it out to me and I realized they were right.

d

id not questions all the answers, the questions I did ask upset some and for that I do not offer an apology . As a suggestion to anyone that does product review: . “I find trimming the most time-consuming step in the process of reloading and up until now absolutely hated it” begs the reply “If you hate doing it, do not do it”, or “find another hobby”. Then I ask another question, it is not like I did not see this coming, when questions are asked about trimming cases is the answer going to be “If you are among the elite like the discerning individuals that own, shoot and reload the M1 Garands”. I ask because that is one of the answers I got. In sales that would be called insult through innuendo.

I have the Gracey, Dillon 1200, home made stuff, Lee etc. and my favorite, form/trim dies, I do not get into mortal combat with reloading, even when a grain of tumbling media gets stuck in a flash hole.

Thank you for taking the time, I believe you should have been involved from the beginning, but, as you said, you did not have the opportunity.

You are in Florida, and I ask about Florida, seems it was snowing, meaning if it is snowing how can I? be in Florida, and that answer implies I was not listening.

Again, thank you for taking the time.

[1stmar]

Fwiw Rc20 cts also has drill powered trimmers like the little crow. For me this was a step up from the lee trimmer I had been using, but not exactly where I wanted to go. So I went with the gen2. It's awesome, changing calibers is as easy as changing seating dies.

[Vance]

The new website looks good. The new CTS Pro 600 looks interesting and does the trimming, crimp removal, debur and chamfer all in one unit. Looks like you get 2 case inserts for the trimmer part in 2 calibers of your choice. Price on his web site as of 3 - 16 - 2014 is $415.00. I don't trim enough brass to justify spending that much, but if I did, I would buy one.

[RC20]

Good for others to know.

I not a nice deal on the Little Crow (wink, wink, nod nod and between us it was $50, call it literally a brother deal so don't expect to get it on the Internet that low a cost!)

Just wanted in the discussion that there were good low cost options out there and at least for me preferable for cost, bench space and flexibility.

I would not begin to justify a Gerard of the CTS but I run smaller batches of case prep under 300 through at a time.

I may get into another caliber and it would be the same. I don't like switching precision setups around all the time so it would work in well with what I am doing.

My brother like his Gerard but cost is not as much an issue with him.

Call me the frugal shooter. Interesting information of the F. Guffy who is his usual obscure self.