I'm switching to double action - Page 2

849ACSO · September 20, 2016, 12:46 PM

I have found the DA trigger pull is harder to anticipate, because you can't REALLY tell when the hammer will fall. In SA mode, you against the wall from the start, and you can tell when it breaks.

That's just me, but I shoot a revolver better in DA mode than SA.

longfellow · September 21, 2016, 08:25 PM

Wrong approach to addressing the problem. Enough years of competitive Bullseye shooting with one of the most difficult guns to master, the 45 acp, has taught us that there are no shortcuts. Start out with a 22, and then a 38 with wadcutters. Train yourself to attain the discipline to focus with laser intensity on the front sight KNOWING that there will be a kick. In a thousand rounds of REAL, practice (not just getting in the trigger time), you will START to experience real marksmanship and command over your weapon. Good luck.

Mike_Fontenot · September 22, 2016, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Train yourself to attain the discipline to focus with laser intensity on the front sight KNOWING that there will be a kick.

"Relish Recoil"! It's a mind game.

Master Blaster · September 22, 2016, 09:42 AM

Yes on some days I shoot better in Double Action also. It definitely has to do with the flinch reflex. Concentrating on the DA pull and steadying the front sight distracts that part of your brain that controls the recoil anticipation reflex or the flinch.
It works better on some days than others though. If I am spot on in my Single action shooting I shoot better in SA. If I am flinching a lot then I will shoot better in DA.

FM12 · September 25, 2016, 09:29 PM

I can miss equally well, either DA or SA. Just my special gift, I guess.

Darker Loaf · September 25, 2016, 11:53 PM

I started shooting double-action with my 986 S&W because I figured it was how I'd shoot it if I needed to quickly. I almost never shoot it single-action, because I want to get used to the trigger. However, I have to admit the few times I shoot it single-action, my groups improve.

I started shooting double-action, partly out of the challenge of doing it. That and my usual carry piece is a Kahr K9 semi-auto that is very DAO-like (though it is striker fired). I can shoot my K9 well, but it is certainly easier for me to fire my Springfield XD with a custom very single-action like trigger, and I can group better with it. However, the same goes for a full-sized CZ 75 with once again a better trigger than a Kahr.

If double-action is working well for you, shoot it. I shoot what is fun to shoot, my groups be damned. I bought an LCR in 9mm for the challenge of shooting a DAO snub-nosed revolver, and I love shooting it now. The LCR has a really excellent DA trigger. I say shooting DA will only improve your trigger control. Just do it lots. I bet whenever you switch back to SA, your groups will tighten from all the practice in DA.

mavracer · September 26, 2016, 01:17 PM

Don't cover up the symptoms, fix the problem.

Get a cheap laser pointer, a sponge and some rubber bands affix the pointer to the gun using the sponge(to not scratch it) and rubber bands then practice pulling the trigger without the laser moving off target.
After a while it won't matter what the trigger feels like you'll be able to stroke the trigger without moving the rest of your hand (and the gun).

MrBorland · September 26, 2016, 01:47 PM

You could also just watch the front sight as you dry fire-practice your DA trigger pull. It tells you everything you need to know, and it's what you should be watching when you're actually shooting anyway.

I do agree, though - fix the problem instead of hiding it.

Mike_Fontenot · September 26, 2016, 01:59 PM

Quote:

You could also just watch the front sight as you dry fire-practice your DA trigger pull. It tells you everything you need to know, and it's what you should be watching when you're actually shooting anyway.

The problem is, you can often keep the sights perfectly steady during the pull when dryfiring, but move them a lot during the pull when you know the gun may go bang. Trying mixing some dummies in with live ammo, and you'll see.

MrBorland · September 26, 2016, 02:29 PM

A live-fire-induced flinch can certainly be an issue, and one that needs to be addressed if present.

But if you're not able to execute good DA trigger control to begin with, you're sure to have trouble with your DA shooting, bang-induced flinch or not.

Ideally, you'd practice your DA trigger control through lots of dry and live fire.

mavracer · September 26, 2016, 02:35 PM

Quote:

You could also just watch the front sight as you dry fire-practice your DA trigger pull.

You and I can, but a lot of neubs aren't focused enough on it to see .1" movement of the front sight but the laser on the wall across the room moving a foot is an easy visual reminder.

rodfac · September 27, 2016, 08:53 PM

Quote:

You and I can, but a lot of neubs aren't focused enough on it to see .1" movement of the front sight but the laser on the wall across the room moving a foot is an easy visual reminder.

Pretty good advice there, I'd say. Rod

dgludwig · September 28, 2016, 05:39 PM

QUOTE: "...I never understood why someone would want SA vs. DA. DA for me is just the only way to go. Sometimes you just don't have that extra 1/2 second or so to cock the hammer and shoot especially with game. I'm not a hunter..."

Back in the day, when Bullseye shooting was the only game in town and revolvers were in their heyday, almost all serious shooters competing in Bullseye matches fired their da revolvers in the sa mode, even during the timed and rapid fire stages. They shot sa because most shooters could shoot a revolver more accurately in sa mode than they could in da mode. And, in Bullseye, accuracy is everything.

Mike_Fontenot · September 28, 2016, 07:02 PM

Quote:

And, in Bullseye, accuracy is everything.

My .44mag Model 69 is my EDC ... 5 shots before a fairly slow reload. So for me, accuracy is also everything. That's why I only shoot it SA (besides the fact that I HATE shooting DA).

MrBorland · September 30, 2016, 10:29 AM

If you're going to shoot a DA/SA revolver, you really ought to be reasonably proficient in both modes, lest you have a big hole in your revolver skills repertoire.

When it comes to the revolver, being a good "all-arounder" isn't just silly ideology or romance - cocking the hammer in a stressful SD situation because it's habit or because you're not comfortable with the DA trigger is very bad mojo, IMO, as it can easily lead to a ND that'll put you and/or others in a world of trouble and hurt.

Likewise, there are times when a slow and very precise shot is more appropriate (e.g. hunting, target shooting), and the good all-arounder will have no problem releasing a good SA shot when it's called for.

September 20, 2016, 12:46 PM	#26
849ACSO Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2014 Location: Somewhere in the middle Posts: 629	I have found the DA trigger pull is harder to anticipate, because you can't REALLY tell when the hammer will fall. In SA mode, you against the wall from the start, and you can tell when it breaks. That's just me, but I shoot a revolver better in DA mode than SA. __________________ "The day you stop learning SHOULD directly coincide with the day you stop breathing."

September 21, 2016, 08:25 PM	#27
longfellow Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2010 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 144	Don't switch Wrong approach to addressing the problem. Enough years of competitive Bullseye shooting with one of the most difficult guns to master, the 45 acp, has taught us that there are no shortcuts. Start out with a 22, and then a 38 with wadcutters. Train yourself to attain the discipline to focus with laser intensity on the front sight KNOWING that there will be a kick. In a thousand rounds of REAL, practice (not just getting in the trigger time), you will START to experience real marksmanship and command over your weapon. Good luck.

September 28, 2016, 05:39 PM	#38
dgludwig Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: North central Ohio Posts: 7,486	QUOTE: "...I never understood why someone would want SA vs. DA. DA for me is just the only way to go. Sometimes you just don't have that extra 1/2 second or so to cock the hammer and shoot especially with game. I'm not a hunter..." Back in the day, when Bullseye shooting was the only game in town and revolvers were in their heyday, almost all serious shooters competing in Bullseye matches fired their da revolvers in the sa mode, even during the timed and rapid fire stages. They shot sa because most shooters could shoot a revolver more accurately in sa mode than they could in da mode. And, in Bullseye, accuracy is everything. __________________ ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED ...Aristotle NRA Benefactor Life Member

September 22, 2016, 09:42 AM	#29
Master Blaster Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: One of the original 13 Colonies Posts: 2,281	Yes on some days I shoot better in Double Action also. It definitely has to do with the flinch reflex. Concentrating on the DA pull and steadying the front sight distracts that part of your brain that controls the recoil anticipation reflex or the flinch. It works better on some days than others though. If I am spot on in my Single action shooting I shoot better in SA. If I am flinching a lot then I will shoot better in DA.

September 25, 2016, 09:29 PM	#30
FM12 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: Monroeville, Alabama Posts: 1,683	I can miss equally well, either DA or SA. Just my special gift, I guess.

September 25, 2016, 11:53 PM	#31
Darker Loaf Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2012 Posts: 715	I started shooting double-action with my 986 S&W because I figured it was how I'd shoot it if I needed to quickly. I almost never shoot it single-action, because I want to get used to the trigger. However, I have to admit the few times I shoot it single-action, my groups improve. I started shooting double-action, partly out of the challenge of doing it. That and my usual carry piece is a Kahr K9 semi-auto that is very DAO-like (though it is striker fired). I can shoot my K9 well, but it is certainly easier for me to fire my Springfield XD with a custom very single-action like trigger, and I can group better with it. However, the same goes for a full-sized CZ 75 with once again a better trigger than a Kahr. If double-action is working well for you, shoot it. I shoot what is fun to shoot, my groups be damned. I bought an LCR in 9mm for the challenge of shooting a DAO snub-nosed revolver, and I love shooting it now. The LCR has a really excellent DA trigger. I say shooting DA will only improve your trigger control. Just do it lots. I bet whenever you switch back to SA, your groups will tighten from all the practice in DA.

September 26, 2016, 01:47 PM	#33
MrBorland Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,614	You could also just watch the front sight as you dry fire-practice your DA trigger pull. It tells you everything you need to know, and it's what you should be watching when you're actually shooting anyway. I do agree, though - fix the problem instead of hiding it.

September 26, 2016, 02:29 PM	#35
MrBorland Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,614	A live-fire-induced flinch can certainly be an issue, and one that needs to be addressed if present. But if you're not able to execute good DA trigger control to begin with, you're sure to have trouble with your DA shooting, bang-induced flinch or not. Ideally, you'd practice your DA trigger control through lots of dry and live fire.

September 30, 2016, 10:29 AM	#40
MrBorland Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,614	If you're going to shoot a DA/SA revolver, you really ought to be reasonably proficient in both modes, lest you have a big hole in your revolver skills repertoire. When it comes to the revolver, being a good "all-arounder" isn't just silly ideology or romance - cocking the hammer in a stressful SD situation because it's habit or because you're not comfortable with the DA trigger is very bad mojo, IMO, as it can easily lead to a ND that'll put you and/or others in a world of trouble and hurt. Likewise, there are times when a slow and very precise shot is more appropriate (e.g. hunting, target shooting), and the good all-arounder will have no problem releasing a good SA shot when it's called for.