Primer improvising

[Unique]

I know lots have but I’m looking for input on whether good results or bad when loading small rifle primers in a small pistol case.
I have around 15,000 small rifle primers that I could use to use up if they work well for plinking ammo in pistol. Let me hear your results.

[Old 454]

Rifle primers are hotter the standred pistol primers.

But if you must... you need to redevelope you load as you might get into unsafe pressures

[hounddawg]

It's your hands, eyes and pistols do what you want but I would see if I could arrange a swap out for pistol primers or just buy the correct primers. Then that is just the way I roll. Cup thickness on a SRP is about 15% thicker and brisiance is greater. I'd sell em on Gunbroker and buy the right primer or take em to a swap meet

[jmorris]

I use rifle primers in some of my pistol loads, I treat them the same as pistol primers, start low and work up.

[tangolima]

I did that too. In some cases I needed to reduce the powder by 5% to have the same velocity. Keep track of what are doing and don't make mistakes, for instance don't put a small pistol primer in a rifle round.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[jdc606]

I mistakenly loaded a couple thousand 9mm using S&B small rifle primers. Their small rifle primers were also labeled " for revolvers and pistols". Used them with multiple pistol powders, HS-6, W231, Power Pistol, and a few others I can't recall. Only problem I had was a Glock striker fire would not always set them off, I assume due to thicker cups. My old Ruger P89 with hammer would work every time.
As others recommend, start low and work up watching for excessive pressure.

[USSR]

Actually, standard small rifle primers aren't as hot as magnum small pistol primers. Worse case scenario, not enough energy from the firing pin to reliably set them off, and that's more likely to happen with a striker-fired autoloader than a revolver.

Don

[jag2]

When this was discussed after 2008 many said they did all the time, especially in 9mm competition shooters. As long as you are shooting a reasonable load you should be fine, doubt you’ll even be able to know the difference.

[74A95]

Originally Posted by USSR

Actually, standard small rifle primers aren't as hot as magnum small pistol primers.
Don

Evidence?

[hounddawg]

back in 2009 if I dropped a primer and it rolled under the bench I would be on my hands and knees looking for it but it isn't 2009.

[Jim Watson]

I ran a little test on ONE load with every primer I could round up.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...88&postcount=1

Difference in velocity was almost nil and the outlier was not the one I expected.

CAUTION, your components are probably different and might behave differently.

[wv109323]

Some pistols may not reliabely fire rifle primers because they are harder/thicker due to higher pressure.
I forget which it is but there is a difference in length between rifle and pistol primers. I forget whether it is small or large primers.

[Jim Watson]

I was surprised to get 100% ignition with CCI BR small rifle but I was shooting a SA with plenty of whack.
And it is Large Rifle primers that are taller than Large Pistol, small primers are the sam external dimensions. So the OP need not fear on that account.

[Unique]

Thanks for your replies. Just for grins I may load around 50 tomorrow and try them out. And as far as starting low, this recipe I’ve been shooting last 5 years with Unique and 135 grainers where I get awesome accuracy is at the starting grains so shouldn’t be a problem there.
Only problem I may run into is my glock I got internal components that gives me 2 1/2 pound trigger pull but I got a skeletonized extended striker so they may go bang and they may not.
Will update here tomorrow.

[AgedWarrior]

I have used Winchester small pistol, small pistol magnum and small rifle in .40 S&W, and after testing found them to be pretty much interchangeable at will. My reason for such testing was a .40 Carbine I have that kept pushing the primers back out when fired. The JRC carbine simply bounces the firing pin on the primer (pretty hard) and the sustained pressure from the longer barrel was pushing the primer indent from the firing pin back out. Gun shoots great, but I tried different primers to see if a tougher primer cup might remedy this. CCI small pistol mag primers (also tested) helped some, Winchester small rifle primers were a bit better. At no time did any of my loads ever give pressure warning signs, and velocity changes were minimal. None of my loads were pushing maximum recommended load data either. The biggest drawback for me was small rifle primers rendered the ammo unreliable in striker fired pistols; it would work, but not consistently.

Please use caution if you try this. Work your loads up carefully, starting low. Your results might be different than mine.

[jmorris]

Keep track of what are doing and don't make mistakes, for instance don't put a small pistol primer in a rifle round.

Sound advice for no matter what your loading.

The only rifle round I load with pistol primers is the 458 SOCOM.

[mikld]

Originally Posted by jmorris

I use rifle primers in some of my pistol loads, I treat them the same as pistol primers, start low and work up.

Yes. Conventional reloading wisdom; when any components is changed, restart a work up. Change to rifle primers, go back to the starting load and work up if necessary. I did so with some 9mm handloads and went back to starting loads, but in the end, I saw very little if any difference in loads worked up with rifle primers than pistol primers. Perhaps other powders would benefit, but none I used did (W231,, Unique, Universal, CFE Pistol, 700X or HS-6)

[Unclenick]

How comparable small rifle and small pistol magnum primers are will vary by brand. Two of the board's members, IIRC, have called CCI to ask the difference in their small rifle and small pistol magnum primers and were told they use the same amount of the same mix and that many CCI employees just get the small rifle for both. I don't recall any mention of cup thickness difference. There will be lot-to-lot consistency differences that could affect exact results as well. Anyway, call CCI if you want to use their product. If you are using Federal or Remington or Winchester or any other brand, call or email them to ask about equivalence. There is no industry standard for this, so each manufacturer gets to use his own judgment about what works.

[hounddawg]

some articles on primer cup thickness and composition, cup thickness does vary

on link # 1 note that CCI small rifle primers and small pistol magnums are the same

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/1...ivity-ranking/


https://www.accurateshooter.com/tech...sure-analysis/

https://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0

[1MoreFord]

For my old IPSC .38 Super loads I always used small pistol magnum or small rifle primers. Usually the rifle primers. Providing you have reliable ignition you should be fine as long as you work the load up from minimum data.

[Unclenick]

Unfortunately, as Allan Jones points out in his article, Mysteries and Misconceptions of the All-Important Primer, primer formulations and details change without public notification. I'm reluctant to rely on old information without remeasuring it. Federal's new Catalyst primer will change things, too, but at least that change has been announced.

In any event, one remains well-advised to work up loads with new lots of primers. The most effect I've seen documented was when Charles Petty in 2006 did a test in a .223 using 24 grains of RL10X and a 55-grain V-max bullet, and he saw velocities range from 3150 to 3300 fps from his Cooper Pheonix rifle depending on the primer. Much more than is usually reported for changing primers, but it was a pretty comprehensive test in which a lot of different primers were tested and many were less different in the velocity they produced than the two extremes were. That velocity shift corresponds to about 5% change in powder if you don't switch primers. Since reading that, I have suggested a 5% charge reduction for changing of primer alone, then refiring to see where velocity is. Doing a side-by-side under the same conditions with the last of your old primers and some of your new ones is your most scientific bet, looking for a difference in average velocity that is significant. If you don't find one, run the charge back up where it was.

[Unique]

Ok. I just shot the ones I loaded. My normal recipe is a 40 with 7.7 grs of Unique with a Rainier 135 FP. and small pistol primers.
Last night all stayed the same except used Federal rifle primers and didn’t shoot on paper to see how accurate but was shooting at 13 yards shooting steel plates that are 4 inches in diameter and they hit exactly where you aim. All 100% out of this batch and no signs of over pressures of any kind. And 7.7 grs is on the low side anyhow. But I got like 4 thousand of these small rifle primers in federal but more in CCI and probably in Winchester too and just use my small rifle primers for AR now and shoot way more pistol right now so I think I’m gonna use these up while doing my training and have fun doing so and get fresh primers afterwards.
Thanks for all your replies.

[Unclenick]

I hope we were helpful.

I'll point out that with pistols, because most don't experience a lot of muzzle rise before the bullet has cleared the muzzle, POI at short ranges is pretty consistent with all loads in the normal range. Unlike a rifle, whose barrel is long enough to have deflection and vibrations, a pistol barrel is too short and therefore too rigid to do that kind of thing, and therefore POI doesn't clearly tell you if pressures are similar or not until you get out 50 yards or so. A chronograph will tell you quickly, though, if the pressure has changed. In this instance, though, with your moderate load, it's probably unnecessary to take that measure.

[NorthIDIndependent]

I've used CCI SRP In 38 spl. and 357 Mag. They worked fine for plinking loads.
Work up if you desire a hot load.
In theory, because of the SRP harder cups, higher pressure would be needed to cause primer deformation. So, I'd stop at the earlier hints of primer pressure signs, not because the primer cant handle more pressure, but because it can handle more pressure than you want to repeatedly put through your handgun. Like always, its dependent on the gun and cartridge being used. I haven't tried SRP in my 9mm Glock.

[Geezerbiker]

I recall seeing some primers that were labeled, small rifle/ small pistol magnum. I think they were Winchester but I used them up a long time ago.

Since then I've never bought small pistol magnum primers and I'm planning to phase out small pistol primers all together and only buy small rifle. That way I have 2 less primer types to stock...

Tony