February 16, 2006, 02:11 PM | #1 |
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Sturdy Safes
Anyone own one of these safes (besides leadcounsel). I'm looking for a new safe within a price range of $2500 and would like something around 35 cubic feet. I've looked at the Sturdy safes but they don't have any official fire rating (omega, UL, etc). They look good on paper but I wish I could compare them to the other safes out there.
I'm also considering the Liberty Lincoln 35 which has a 75min 1200 degree fire rating by Omega... The wife doesn't like the Sturdy as much since they are indeed less aesthetically pleasing to the eye but luckily it's my decision. |
February 16, 2006, 05:14 PM | #2 |
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I have had a Browning now for about 15 years. It's rated at 1200 degrees for 90 minutes buy UL. It's a great safe.
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February 16, 2006, 08:28 PM | #3 | |
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For the money, I think the AMSEC BF line is one of the best buys.
1/2" Steel plate door 90 minute fire "rating" Composite construction Built by a real safe company Quote:
Most gun safes do not come anywhere near meeting the UL requirements for fire.
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February 16, 2006, 08:37 PM | #4 |
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My opinion at present (and I could be wrong) is that if it ain't fire rated by UL, it ain't fire rated. I mean, who the heck is Omega? Sounds like something Liberty just made up (subsidiary) to approve their own safes. Is this company used by any OTHER safe makers to rate their safes, besides Liberty? I just ain't buyin' it.
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February 16, 2006, 11:41 PM | #5 |
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FF, several other safe manufactures use Omega, including the Browning safe BigV posted. They are an independent testing company, here's their website; http://www.intertek-etlsemko.com/por...ma=CUST_PORTAL
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February 17, 2006, 02:38 AM | #6 |
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Omega is a well known independant lab, but as stated, their ratings don't really mean much.
The UL fire tests cover 3 basic tests: Heat exposure Impact resistance Explosion (caused by internal pressure) UL rates their safes starting at 1,700 degrees. Most gun safes are tested in the 1,200 degree range. UL safes are heated then dropped to simulate the fall through a floor during a fire. The safe must remain intact. Would a 12 gauge steel box heated to 1200 degrees stay in one piece if it fell through a floor and onto concrete? Most document safes use moisture to protect their contents. This is why they have the explosion test. The moisture must not build up to such a degree that it blows the safe open from within. Most gun safes use a dry insulation, so this isn't really an issue with most gun safes. Also, a fire resistant safe is only designed to keep paperwork in "readable" condition. It is entirely possible that a safe's contents will char, melt, bubble, and become disfigured. Many people are under the false impression that the safe will keep their possessions in pristine condition.
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February 17, 2006, 11:53 AM | #7 |
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I used to be a saales rep for liberty safes they really are a good product
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February 17, 2006, 11:59 AM | #8 |
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Nothing personal against Liberty, but out of all of the manufacturers, they're one of the worst at marketing their products for uses which they are not designed.
They are also famous for using "safes that somebody tried to break into" on the sales floors of their dealerships. In reality, these safes were beaten up to look bad, but no real attempt was made on them.
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February 17, 2006, 02:56 PM | #9 | |
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Quote:
I think their testimonials at their website are pretty lame, but they seem to make a decent safe.
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February 17, 2006, 04:16 PM | #10 |
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About them using a beat up safe as a demo i've been to a gun shop that has a safe thats been broken into. Well thats what the salesman said. It was pretty convincing to look at the inside of the safe. The door was made out of sheetmetal. It wouldn't take much to get into it. I'm going with the one a1abdj mentioned i haven't been able to find one that has a heavier door than that one. Those safes with the 1.5" thick door are just made of sheetmetal not very convincing to me.
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February 17, 2006, 04:39 PM | #11 | |
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Quote:
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February 17, 2006, 04:45 PM | #12 |
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I didn't mention liberty safe go back and read what i said i was talking about the safe i looked at.
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February 17, 2006, 04:53 PM | #13 |
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Liberty safe use an outer shell of 10 gauge high carbon steel which isn't 3/16 thick i call that sheet metal. Unless i'm using the wrong gauge scale. Thats between 1/8th and 9/64ths of an inch or i'm i mistaken?
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February 17, 2006, 04:59 PM | #14 |
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Unless you're talking the top of the line safe from liberty
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February 17, 2006, 05:13 PM | #15 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
My only point is Liberty safes don't suck, but their nice ones are expensive, yes. Are there better deals out there? I guess it depends on where you live and how much it costs to ship it to your house.
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February 17, 2006, 05:27 PM | #16 |
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Not a problem 625 i realize i was vague on which safe i was referring to. I was trying to make a point that even though a door my seem very strudy in fact it's an illusion. Its not really 2" solid. I was just shocked when i saw the inside of the door. Made me realize that all safe aren't equal.
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February 17, 2006, 05:55 PM | #17 |
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a1abdj, out of curiosity, why is the Amsec (say HF 6040) that much better than a Liberty Lincoln? It appears to be in almost the same price range as the Liberty Lincoln 35 I was looking at. I notice the Amsec uses a proprietary fire insulation as opposed to Liberty's Sheet Rock but both safes use 10 gauge steel for the outer shell.
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February 17, 2006, 07:01 PM | #18 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
As someone who deals with safes all day long, I can make the following observations: First. There was no damage to the lock or the handle. These are often the first things hit, bent, twisted, or broken in 99% of the attempted burglaries we see. Most people assume that knocking off the lock or handle will open the safe. Second. Liberty paints their safes after they have been bolted to their shipping skids. As such, the skid is often painted to the safe and has to be knocked loose. The safe I have personally seen is still painted to the shipping skid....again.....90% of the time the safe is removed from the skid. Third. The damage done to the safe was reported to have been from a sledge and prybar, yet no entry was made to the safe. An average person could start ripping a hole through 12 gauge sheet in about 3 swings. This safe was hit in excess of 50 times. Either the person doing the swinging was a 5 year old girl, or the person swinging didn't want to swing hard enough to really cause any damage. The "prying" simply scratched the safe, and didn't tear the door apart like it really would have. Again...very minimal effort. I can show you photos of safes that were burglarized, or had attempts made on them. They in no way resemble what these Liberty safes look like.
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February 17, 2006, 08:52 PM | #19 |
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I'm not going to recommend a brand, do some searches and find out some of the finer points. One big suggestion: When I bought my safe many years ago, I found several that were using drywall for their fire protection and charging hundreds of dollars more, they use their brand recognition and people blindly bought them. If you want fire protection find a manufacture that uses Kaowool or generic type of ceramic wool. This stuff is used in powerhouse boilers, steel mills and refinery furnaces and works very well. I found several that used it, and it wont cost any more then the (shudder) drywall.
That said, I'm not sure anything will save your rifes if your house burns down, just dont pay a couple hundred dollars for a sheet or two of drywall. |
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