RCBS neck die problem

SEHunter · January 9, 2011, 08:57 PM

I just realized that the expander ball/decapping pin are bent or warped. I dont know how it got like this because it is relatively new and i have never dropped it. Can i loosen the stem of the expander ball so it can just center itself? I dont want to take it completely out.

wncchester · January 9, 2011, 09:53 PM

Take it out. It's just a screw, not like taking a clock apart.

If it's bent you had it screwed down too far and it got hit by a case web. We only need the pin to protrude about 3/16" below the die mouth.

SEHunter · January 10, 2011, 06:44 AM

Right, its not a clock. Bent or not, my question is the method of leaving it loose when using it. Will it help decrease the issue of run out that is associated with dies that use expander balls such as this one. Thanks.

steve4102 · January 10, 2011, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Bent or not, my question is the method of leaving it loose when using it. Will it help decrease the issue of run out that is associated with dies that use expander balls such as this one.

Duno, but I doubt it. Call RCBS, they will send you new parts for free.

SEHunter · January 10, 2011, 08:08 AM

Probably what i will do. To anyones knowledge, does the decapping pin/expander stud on these dies or similar dies have the reputation of being slightly bent or is it usually always user error? It is possible that i had it set too low and hit the case with the expander ball.

As far as using the die with the expander ball loose, i have been second guessing that because it could allow the decapping pin to hit off center and break so i think i need to replace it.

wncchester · January 10, 2011, 09:40 AM

my question is the method of leaving it loose when using it. Will it help decrease the issue of run out that is associated with dies that use expander balls such as this one.

There is no value in locking a decap rod down hard, nor in leaving it deliberately loose; the rods are not stiff enough nor are the cases held firmly enough to bend case necks during normal expanding. It's the conventional expander balls that are the problem. Balls have very limited case contact so they tend to drift towards the thin or soft side of a neck during withdrawal and their short contact design acentuates the tendendancy.

Lee sizer's intergal expander/decapper rods have a long cylinder expander section that makes the portion it first expands serve to support and guide it further. Thus, no matter the variations in the neck wall, a long cylinder will do as well as can be done on each case. Lee's design is not a perfect solution to bent necks (no expander can be perfect since at it's core it's a case problem) but it's the best expander we now have.

A good alternative to using a Lee FL sizer is to take your present expander out, use a universal decapper (again, Lee has the strongest universal decapper rod/pin on the market) and use a Lyman "M" die expander. The M's expander is also a long cylinder and it pushes IN rather than pulling OUT; that seems to help reduce runout too.

It's often suggested that putting case lube inside necks will (may?) reduce neck bending from the friction of extracting a dry expander. For sure it will make withdrawal easier but I disagree, friction is not what bends necks. If a neck is uniformly thick and hard it will expand uniformly no matter the expander's friction. ??

SEHunter · January 10, 2011, 11:35 AM

wncchester, thanks for that information. It made alot of sence to me. It makes me less concerned with the expander being completely centered and all the talk of leaving the rod loose or not, but also i will look into the alternative you mentioned. thanks again.

SEHunter · January 10, 2011, 11:47 AM

I just checked into the Lee website and i think the universal decapper is somthing i would like to use. Still looking into the "M" die.

SEHunter · January 10, 2011, 04:38 PM

RCBS is sending new rods/stems for the die, as well as two other dies i have, all at no charge. I am impressed with their CS.

Im going to buy the Lee universal decapper and take the decapping pins out of my seating dies since they will no longer be needed. Still will leave the expander ball loose, i figure it cant hurt. Most of these dies are newer and i dont want to just put them away but they should be adequate for the novice like myself.

I do plan on giving much more attention to cleaning and lubeing the inside of the necks prior to resizing. It may not help with run out much but it should help with some minor headspace issues i have had. I didnt know any better at the time but looking back, i remember it being very tight when the expander ball was pulled back up through the necks on several occasions.

When i find the link again, im going to try to polish out the expander ball as another member directed in a thread. These few steps should eliminate my head space problem, atleast the ones caused by improper sizing.

wncchester · January 10, 2011, 06:35 PM

Most of these dies are newer and i dont want to just put them away but they should be adequate for the novice like myself.

Unless you have defective dies (unlikely), they are adequate for anyone. Those of us who just have to try other stuff to see what it might do are the prime market for specialized (expensive) dies and we sure aren't likely to tell everyone the more costly toys really didn't accomplish much!

Actually, the more effective tools are individuals chosen for and used in specific ways in combonation with common dies. No matter what we buy, skill counts for much more than what we spend.

SEHunter · January 10, 2011, 07:12 PM

10-4. Thanks for shareing your knowledge with me on the subject.

Ideal Tool · January 11, 2011, 01:01 AM

Hello, SEHunter. I don't know if you realize it, but Wncchester just gave you the best advice i have seen in along time. Most of my hand-loading is for cast-bullets now days, even modern calibers, but even for the jacketed loads, I haven't used a decapper/expander ball in years. I usually de-prime off press, just to avoid the gritty primer residue, & usually only neck size, have been using the Redding bushing style dies & love em' For cast I use the Lyman M die. It's such a pleasure not to have that squeeky drag on the up-stroke. Best of luck!

January 9, 2011, 08:57 PM	#1
SEHunter Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 332	RCBS neck die problem I just realized that the expander ball/decapping pin are bent or warped. I dont know how it got like this because it is relatively new and i have never dropped it. Can i loosen the stem of the expander ball so it can just center itself? I dont want to take it completely out.

January 10, 2011, 09:40 AM	#6
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	my question is the method of leaving it loose when using it. Will it help decrease the issue of run out that is associated with dies that use expander balls such as this one. There is no value in locking a decap rod down hard, nor in leaving it deliberately loose; the rods are not stiff enough nor are the cases held firmly enough to bend case necks during normal expanding. It's the conventional expander balls that are the problem. Balls have very limited case contact so they tend to drift towards the thin or soft side of a neck during withdrawal and their short contact design acentuates the tendendancy. Lee sizer's intergal expander/decapper rods have a long cylinder expander section that makes the portion it first expands serve to support and guide it further. Thus, no matter the variations in the neck wall, a long cylinder will do as well as can be done on each case. Lee's design is not a perfect solution to bent necks (no expander can be perfect since at it's core it's a case problem) but it's the best expander we now have. A good alternative to using a Lee FL sizer is to take your present expander out, use a universal decapper (again, Lee has the strongest universal decapper rod/pin on the market) and use a Lyman "M" die expander. The M's expander is also a long cylinder and it pushes IN rather than pulling OUT; that seems to help reduce runout too. It's often suggested that putting case lube inside necks will (may?) reduce neck bending from the friction of extracting a dry expander. For sure it will make withdrawal easier but I disagree, friction is not what bends necks. If a neck is uniformly thick and hard it will expand uniformly no matter the expander's friction. ?? Last edited by wncchester; January 10, 2011 at 06:26 PM.

January 10, 2011, 06:35 PM	#10
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	Most of these dies are newer and i dont want to just put them away but they should be adequate for the novice like myself. Unless you have defective dies (unlikely), they are adequate for anyone. Those of us who just have to try other stuff to see what it might do are the prime market for specialized (expensive) dies and we sure aren't likely to tell everyone the more costly toys really didn't accomplish much! Actually, the more effective tools are individuals chosen for and used in specific ways in combonation with common dies. No matter what we buy, skill counts for much more than what we spend. Last edited by wncchester; January 10, 2011 at 06:45 PM.

January 9, 2011, 09:53 PM	#2
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	Take it out. It's just a screw, not like taking a clock apart. If it's bent you had it screwed down too far and it got hit by a case web. We only need the pin to protrude about 3/16" below the die mouth.

January 10, 2011, 06:44 AM	#3
SEHunter Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 332	Right, its not a clock. Bent or not, my question is the method of leaving it loose when using it. Will it help decrease the issue of run out that is associated with dies that use expander balls such as this one. Thanks.

January 10, 2011, 08:08 AM	#5
SEHunter Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 332	Probably what i will do. To anyones knowledge, does the decapping pin/expander stud on these dies or similar dies have the reputation of being slightly bent or is it usually always user error? It is possible that i had it set too low and hit the case with the expander ball. As far as using the die with the expander ball loose, i have been second guessing that because it could allow the decapping pin to hit off center and break so i think i need to replace it.

January 10, 2011, 11:35 AM	#7
SEHunter Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 332	wncchester, thanks for that information. It made alot of sence to me. It makes me less concerned with the expander being completely centered and all the talk of leaving the rod loose or not, but also i will look into the alternative you mentioned. thanks again.

January 10, 2011, 11:47 AM	#8
SEHunter Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 332	I just checked into the Lee website and i think the universal decapper is somthing i would like to use. Still looking into the "M" die.

January 10, 2011, 04:38 PM	#9
SEHunter Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 332	RCBS is sending new rods/stems for the die, as well as two other dies i have, all at no charge. I am impressed with their CS. Im going to buy the Lee universal decapper and take the decapping pins out of my seating dies since they will no longer be needed. Still will leave the expander ball loose, i figure it cant hurt. Most of these dies are newer and i dont want to just put them away but they should be adequate for the novice like myself. I do plan on giving much more attention to cleaning and lubeing the inside of the necks prior to resizing. It may not help with run out much but it should help with some minor headspace issues i have had. I didnt know any better at the time but looking back, i remember it being very tight when the expander ball was pulled back up through the necks on several occasions. When i find the link again, im going to try to polish out the expander ball as another member directed in a thread. These few steps should eliminate my head space problem, atleast the ones caused by improper sizing.

January 10, 2011, 07:12 PM	#11
SEHunter Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 332	10-4. Thanks for shareing your knowledge with me on the subject.

January 11, 2011, 01:01 AM	#12
Ideal Tool Junior member Join Date: October 6, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,080	Hello, SEHunter. I don't know if you realize it, but Wncchester just gave you the best advice i have seen in along time. Most of my hand-loading is for cast-bullets now days, even modern calibers, but even for the jacketed loads, I haven't used a decapper/expander ball in years. I usually de-prime off press, just to avoid the gritty primer residue, & usually only neck size, have been using the Redding bushing style dies & love em' For cast I use the Lyman M die. It's such a pleasure not to have that squeeky drag on the up-stroke. Best of luck!