Harrington & Richardson Top Break .38

velocette · March 1, 2016, 10:42 AM

I have an almost like new H&R .38 top break revolver. Its problem is that someone in the distant past disassembled it. I have found a source for the missing springs but am unable to find any information on how to re-assemble the revolver.
Anyone have that information that they can share with me?

Roger

g.willikers · March 1, 2016, 10:46 AM

There's a bunch of videos on youtube.

Dixie Gunsmithing · March 1, 2016, 11:30 PM

I would suggest finding a good YouTube video, that shows the actual reassembly, as slave pins are generally needed to reassemble most of the H&R revolvers. If not, I would check a local library for an assembly/disassembly book on Gunsmithing that shows reassembly instructions. Gun Digest printed those, along with the NRA.

You will have to fabricate the slave pins out of something like a finish nail, or piece of steel wire, etc. They are used to hold the sub-assembly together, while you put that into the frame, and use the main longer pins to drive them out with.

hartcreek · March 2, 2016, 01:57 AM

Numrich has breakdowns of most models you can copy and paste. gyval has been through a few of them as have I. Ther really arent that many parts. I use paperclips to hold parts in place till I am ready for the piano wire pins.

James K · March 2, 2016, 08:54 PM

Slave pins (I understand it is now politically correct to call them "helper pins") should be a slip fit and only slightly smaller than the factory pins. Paper clips and the like can be used, but can sometimes allow just enough movement of the parts to frustrate the assembler. Since a factory generally used only one or two pin sizes, I had "helper pins" made up for H&R and I.J. If I ran into an odd size, I made them up as Dixie says, out of nails.

Jim

hartcreek · March 2, 2016, 09:34 PM

James you should have stated the size of nails that you used. I know because I also use them in finish work but I doubt very much that many people here have seen 2 and 4P finish nails......but paperclips they probably have in a desk.

James K · March 3, 2016, 06:48 PM

As you know, the pennyweight (d) of nails is today a measure of length, not diameter, so that is not a really good measurement for a slave pin. Most of those old revolver pins run around 0.07", though, so ordinary paper clips will be too small. I found that a 6d finishing nail (.067" diameter) works OK for most guns, but if the factory pin was bigger, I would use an 8d and file it down in the drill press.

(Of course, I have not used finishing nails for actual woodwork since I found out about Paslodes, but I always have a few handy for small jobs.)

The size is not that critical, but for something like installing a trigger guard with a single action sear and sear spring, nothing will work except a slave pin, and you can't use one too small or the parts won't stay in place during installation.

Jim

Dixie Gunsmithing · March 5, 2016, 06:08 PM

Jim, even when you get the slave pins in, it can be a little aggravating sometimes, if things just don't quite want to line up like you want. If I had a dime for every swear word uttered at the bench, I would be filthy rich.

One revolver, in particular, that I used to curse, before I learned how to finagle the hand spring through the hammer slot, was the High Standard revolvers. For some reason, the Sentinel's were the worst.

James K · March 5, 2016, 08:03 PM

Yep, the early Sentinels were a PITA. Later they put in that hammer sleeve that allowed the trigger guard and hammer to be assembled before inserting them into the frame. I don't know why they didn't do that in the first place.

Jim

Dixie Gunsmithing · March 7, 2016, 02:15 AM

Jim, they've made some bad gun designs, simply because they could be mass produced cheaply, with less machining, which were really pains to work on. There are several in mind, that if certain parts broke, internally, then one was really lucky if it could actually be taken apart.

I've known of cases where holes had to be drilled or milled out, to get to a broken part, or to give access for some way of holding that part it in place, just to get it broke down, especially in pistols. Then we smiths have to try to hide that away, even welding it back up.

My worst though, was when someone brought in an old RG Bulldog, wanting it repaired, but the repair would cost more than the thing was worth. I actually suggested to a customer once, who brought in a worn out RG, to do with it with it as it was designed for, and drive to the middle of a bridge, and throw it in the river. They weren't called Saturday Night Specials for nothing. Those were the days.

velocette · March 9, 2016, 07:30 PM

That's nice abut the pins etc. However, I have found nothing in U tube about disassembly or reassembly of a H&R top break .38 revolver. I don't mean just basic removal of the cylinder, but the internal (infernal?) workins.
Can any of the mavens of revolver help?

Roger

Dixie Gunsmithing · March 12, 2016, 06:18 AM

The assembly and disassembly of this gun, would be hard to describe on here, unless you have an assembly and disassembly book on the subject, to use with the discussion. I would look at the library for Gun Digest's revolver assembly and disassembly book. Also, look for the NRA book on the same. You may have to buy a copy, and they can be found on eBay.

James K · March 12, 2016, 09:30 PM

I am not a big fan of U tube, which seems to be more about someone talking (and talking and talking) than actually showing how to do things. I had supposed that a few U tube videos would allow the average klutz to take apart and repair a jet engine, let alone an old revolver.

About that business of cutting holes, I described on one site how to drill a hole in the frame of a 1911 to drive out a broken ejector front stud. It is easy but you do need a special bit and some know-how. Every time I replaced an ejector, I drilled the front hole through, just in case. I never had a customer even notice it.

Jim

Dixie Gunsmithing · March 12, 2016, 10:26 PM

I took a look on YouTube myself, and saw several that I thought looked as if it would be a disassembly video, and all they did was break open the revolver, and ramble on about it.

I ought to think about doing some videos, but getting hold of the guns to do the video with, would be something else. Since I've practically quit, I don't take any in now. I only repair those of a friend or two anymore, and I've caught myself saying exactly what Danny Glover used to say, in those movies with Gibson, "I'm getting too old for this...."

The problem is, I'm not that old, but arthritis says differently.

velocette · March 14, 2016, 02:53 PM

Checked with my local library & a copy of the Gun Digest assembly & disassembly book is available.
We'll see if it has an H&R top break.

R

James K · March 14, 2016, 07:37 PM

We got off on the slave pin tangent because the hardest part of assembling those revolvers is keeping the parts together while assembling the trigger guard and sear to the frame. That is because the same pin that holds the guard to the frame also holds sear and sear spring in the guard. A slave pin is a pin that is the width of the guard and serves to hold the sear in place while the guard is installed. After the guard is in place, the full length guard pin is driven in, driving out the slave pin and keeping the sear and sear spring captive.

Jim

March 1, 2016, 10:42 AM	#1
velocette Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2007 Location: South Florida Posts: 924	Harrington & Richardson Top Break .38 I have an almost like new H&R .38 top break revolver. Its problem is that someone in the distant past disassembled it. I have found a source for the missing springs but am unable to find any information on how to re-assemble the revolver. Anyone have that information that they can share with me? Roger __________________ Trigger control + Breath control + Sight alignment = Gun Control. http://www.hrpclub.info/ NRA Smallbore Prone Master, High Power Master

March 1, 2016, 10:46 AM	#2
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	There's a bunch of videos on youtube. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

March 9, 2016, 07:30 PM	#11
velocette Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2007 Location: South Florida Posts: 924	That's nice abut the pins etc. However, I have found nothing in U tube about disassembly or reassembly of a H&R top break .38 revolver. I don't mean just basic removal of the cylinder, but the internal (infernal?) workins. Can any of the mavens of revolver help? Roger __________________ Trigger control + Breath control + Sight alignment = Gun Control. http://www.hrpclub.info/ NRA Smallbore Prone Master, High Power Master

March 14, 2016, 02:53 PM	#15
velocette Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2007 Location: South Florida Posts: 924	Checked with my local library & a copy of the Gun Digest assembly & disassembly book is available. We'll see if it has an H&R top break. R __________________ Trigger control + Breath control + Sight alignment = Gun Control. http://www.hrpclub.info/ NRA Smallbore Prone Master, High Power Master

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

March 1, 2016, 11:30 PM	#3
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	I would suggest finding a good YouTube video, that shows the actual reassembly, as slave pins are generally needed to reassemble most of the H&R revolvers. If not, I would check a local library for an assembly/disassembly book on Gunsmithing that shows reassembly instructions. Gun Digest printed those, along with the NRA. You will have to fabricate the slave pins out of something like a finish nail, or piece of steel wire, etc. They are used to hold the sub-assembly together, while you put that into the frame, and use the main longer pins to drive them out with.

March 2, 2016, 01:57 AM	#4
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	Numrich has breakdowns of most models you can copy and paste. gyval has been through a few of them as have I. Ther really arent that many parts. I use paperclips to hold parts in place till I am ready for the piano wire pins.

March 2, 2016, 08:54 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Slave pins (I understand it is now politically correct to call them "helper pins") should be a slip fit and only slightly smaller than the factory pins. Paper clips and the like can be used, but can sometimes allow just enough movement of the parts to frustrate the assembler. Since a factory generally used only one or two pin sizes, I had "helper pins" made up for H&R and I.J. If I ran into an odd size, I made them up as Dixie says, out of nails. Jim

March 2, 2016, 09:34 PM	#6
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	James you should have stated the size of nails that you used. I know because I also use them in finish work but I doubt very much that many people here have seen 2 and 4P finish nails......but paperclips they probably have in a desk.

March 3, 2016, 06:48 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	As you know, the pennyweight (d) of nails is today a measure of length, not diameter, so that is not a really good measurement for a slave pin. Most of those old revolver pins run around 0.07", though, so ordinary paper clips will be too small. I found that a 6d finishing nail (.067" diameter) works OK for most guns, but if the factory pin was bigger, I would use an 8d and file it down in the drill press. (Of course, I have not used finishing nails for actual woodwork since I found out about Paslodes, but I always have a few handy for small jobs.) The size is not that critical, but for something like installing a trigger guard with a single action sear and sear spring, nothing will work except a slave pin, and you can't use one too small or the parts won't stay in place during installation. Jim

March 5, 2016, 06:08 PM	#8
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Jim, even when you get the slave pins in, it can be a little aggravating sometimes, if things just don't quite want to line up like you want. If I had a dime for every swear word uttered at the bench, I would be filthy rich. One revolver, in particular, that I used to curse, before I learned how to finagle the hand spring through the hammer slot, was the High Standard revolvers. For some reason, the Sentinel's were the worst.

March 5, 2016, 08:03 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Yep, the early Sentinels were a PITA. Later they put in that hammer sleeve that allowed the trigger guard and hammer to be assembled before inserting them into the frame. I don't know why they didn't do that in the first place. Jim

March 7, 2016, 02:15 AM	#10
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Jim, they've made some bad gun designs, simply because they could be mass produced cheaply, with less machining, which were really pains to work on. There are several in mind, that if certain parts broke, internally, then one was really lucky if it could actually be taken apart. I've known of cases where holes had to be drilled or milled out, to get to a broken part, or to give access for some way of holding that part it in place, just to get it broke down, especially in pistols. Then we smiths have to try to hide that away, even welding it back up. My worst though, was when someone brought in an old RG Bulldog, wanting it repaired, but the repair would cost more than the thing was worth. I actually suggested to a customer once, who brought in a worn out RG, to do with it with it as it was designed for, and drive to the middle of a bridge, and throw it in the river. They weren't called Saturday Night Specials for nothing. Those were the days.

March 12, 2016, 06:18 AM	#12
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	The assembly and disassembly of this gun, would be hard to describe on here, unless you have an assembly and disassembly book on the subject, to use with the discussion. I would look at the library for Gun Digest's revolver assembly and disassembly book. Also, look for the NRA book on the same. You may have to buy a copy, and they can be found on eBay.

March 12, 2016, 09:30 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I am not a big fan of U tube, which seems to be more about someone talking (and talking and talking) than actually showing how to do things. I had supposed that a few U tube videos would allow the average klutz to take apart and repair a jet engine, let alone an old revolver. About that business of cutting holes, I described on one site how to drill a hole in the frame of a 1911 to drive out a broken ejector front stud. It is easy but you do need a special bit and some know-how. Every time I replaced an ejector, I drilled the front hole through, just in case. I never had a customer even notice it. Jim

March 12, 2016, 10:26 PM	#14
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	I took a look on YouTube myself, and saw several that I thought looked as if it would be a disassembly video, and all they did was break open the revolver, and ramble on about it. I ought to think about doing some videos, but getting hold of the guns to do the video with, would be something else. Since I've practically quit, I don't take any in now. I only repair those of a friend or two anymore, and I've caught myself saying exactly what Danny Glover used to say, in those movies with Gibson, "I'm getting too old for this...." The problem is, I'm not that old, but arthritis says differently.

March 14, 2016, 07:37 PM	#16
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	We got off on the slave pin tangent because the hardest part of assembling those revolvers is keeping the parts together while assembling the trigger guard and sear to the frame. That is because the same pin that holds the guard to the frame also holds sear and sear spring in the guard. A slave pin is a pin that is the width of the guard and serves to hold the sear in place while the guard is installed. After the guard is in place, the full length guard pin is driven in, driving out the slave pin and keeping the sear and sear spring captive. Jim