Question about gun design & AOW...

Skans · January 21, 2015, 11:13 AM

I understand that guns made to look like other things such as cell phones, hidden inside of a knife, etc. makes it an "AOW", under the NFA. Someone makes a wallet holster designed to make a small .380 pistol look like a wallet, and even that (or the holster+gun) is classified as an AOW.

I recently purchased a holster that makes my Ruger LC9 look more like a wallet to avoid obvious printing (I pocket carry only) and it can be fired without taking the wallet out of the holster. But, because the slide is not concealed by the holster, it's not classified as an AOW.

The new Taurus Curve got me thinking. I don't want to debate the pros/cons of the Curve which seems to polarize people. But, I was wondering what if Taurus took this design a little farther and made the gun basically hard to recognize as a gun, but didn't attempt to hide it inside some other non-gun device? Would such a gun be classified as an AOW, or would it just be an ordinary pistol?

HKFan9 · January 21, 2015, 12:46 PM

Well the Walther SP22 already tried the Taser / What the Heck is it look... didn't really take on all to well.

I get what you are saying, but really I think you'd be then sacraficing an awful lot (as if you werent already with trusting your life to a Taurus

)to change the form of a gun in a way to make it unrecognizable.

Also... in all honesty.. I am not a huge proponet of open carry. I agree it should be allowed and legal.. but unless im at work / range/ outdoors in the woods... I generally avoid it. To hide a gun in plain sight kinda thing... I gotta ask WHY? other than to pander to the anti's and their fear of inantimate objects.

As far as an AOW classification..... honestly it seems as of late the ATF is gonna say or do whatever they'd like until a judge says otherwise. I couldn't answer that for you, but I'd take a bet it would be however the ATF is feeling on said day.

cc-hangfire · January 21, 2015, 02:32 PM

That's an interesting question, & I'm not suggesting any answers. It makes me wonder how far a builder could take design without crossing the line. The little .22 Zip Gun is an almost rectangular form, and some derringers get close to that form. There is a old palm gun design that looked nothing like a traditional firearm. None of those designs are attempts to disguise the firearm, shape simply follows function. Hmmmmm...

James K · January 21, 2015, 09:25 PM

The Taurus pistol is curved but still looks very much like a pistol; it is not "disguised" as something else. The same would (I think) be true of the Zip Gun. A holster that would look like a wallet would probably not be an AOW, since a holster can't be an AOW, and it is not the gun that looks like a wallet.

Now a gun that looks like a cell phone, with a fake screen and buttons, would be an AOW, since it is a gun made to look like something else.

Jim

January 21, 2015, 11:13 AM	#1
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Question about gun design & AOW... I understand that guns made to look like other things such as cell phones, hidden inside of a knife, etc. makes it an "AOW", under the NFA. Someone makes a wallet holster designed to make a small .380 pistol look like a wallet, and even that (or the holster+gun) is classified as an AOW. I recently purchased a holster that makes my Ruger LC9 look more like a wallet to avoid obvious printing (I pocket carry only) and it can be fired without taking the wallet out of the holster. But, because the slide is not concealed by the holster, it's not classified as an AOW. The new Taurus Curve got me thinking. I don't want to debate the pros/cons of the Curve which seems to polarize people. But, I was wondering what if Taurus took this design a little farther and made the gun basically hard to recognize as a gun, but didn't attempt to hide it inside some other non-gun device? Would such a gun be classified as an AOW, or would it just be an ordinary pistol?

January 21, 2015, 12:46 PM	#2
HKFan9 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Posts: 3,057	Well the Walther SP22 already tried the Taser / What the Heck is it look... didn't really take on all to well. I get what you are saying, but really I think you'd be then sacraficing an awful lot (as if you werent already with trusting your life to a Taurus)to change the form of a gun in a way to make it unrecognizable. Also... in all honesty.. I am not a huge proponet of open carry. I agree it should be allowed and legal.. but unless im at work / range/ outdoors in the woods... I generally avoid it. To hide a gun in plain sight kinda thing... I gotta ask WHY? other than to pander to the anti's and their fear of inantimate objects. As far as an AOW classification..... honestly it seems as of late the ATF is gonna say or do whatever they'd like until a judge says otherwise. I couldn't answer that for you, but I'd take a bet it would be however the ATF is feeling on said day.

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January 21, 2015, 02:32 PM	#3
cc-hangfire Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2014 Posts: 304	That's an interesting question, & I'm not suggesting any answers. It makes me wonder how far a builder could take design without crossing the line. The little .22 Zip Gun is an almost rectangular form, and some derringers get close to that form. There is a old palm gun design that looked nothing like a traditional firearm. None of those designs are attempts to disguise the firearm, shape simply follows function. Hmmmmm...

January 21, 2015, 09:25 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The Taurus pistol is curved but still looks very much like a pistol; it is not "disguised" as something else. The same would (I think) be true of the Zip Gun. A holster that would look like a wallet would probably not be an AOW, since a holster can't be an AOW, and it is not the gun that looks like a wallet. Now a gun that looks like a cell phone, with a fake screen and buttons, would be an AOW, since it is a gun made to look like something else. Jim