More NFA Misconceptions

smince · July 30, 2006, 06:28 AM

A few gun friends and I were talking yesterday and I mentioned that I'd been considering getting a (legal) suppressor for my 10/22 and my MKII bull-barrel pistol. Conversation went something like this:

Them: "What's the tax up to now? About $450 or $500"?
Me: "No. Still $200".
Them: "Yeah, but that's still a lot to have to pay every year just for a toy".
Me: "It's not yearly. It's a one-time-'tax' per item you buy. $200 per suppressor, $200 per MG, $200 per SBR..."
Them: "You sure about that? I thought it was every year"!
Me: "Pretty sure".
Them: "HECK! If I'd knew that, I would have bought something a long time ago"!

Edited to add: These individuals are generally pretty knowledgeable about guns and gun laws. But they missed this one badly.

VUPDblue · July 30, 2006, 09:44 AM

In short, you are correct. $200 tax per item upon transfer. No yearly 'dues'.

Hkmp5sd · July 30, 2006, 04:04 PM

Don't forget the ever popular "they can come in your house and search any time they want to."

444 · July 30, 2006, 04:22 PM

Don't forget the favorite of the internet gun forum:

Yeah, you can own all that stuff but with all the hoops you have to jump through and the expense it is effectively illegal.

Or the other internet favorite: You have to be RICH to own any of that stuff.

On-line they make sure to use the word ALL in every sentence as in: ALL the paperwork or ALL those hoops you have to jump through.

That is what I am reading but for some reason what my brain is processing is: I am a drama queen and Oh my, the sky is falling

AmesJainchill · July 30, 2006, 06:33 PM

How many sets of fingerprints do you have to send to the ATF?

Hkmp5sd · July 30, 2006, 11:22 PM

Two per set of Form 1s or 4s. Unless you are a corporation or a trust, and then you are exempt from prints and photos.

gunslinger555 · July 30, 2006, 11:48 PM

or thair is what i hear at gun shows "you can own a silencer you just cant put it on a gun and use it"

Dave Haven · July 31, 2006, 12:28 AM

Another one I've heard numerous times is, "You can own a machine gun; you just can't own the firing pin."

raymond- · July 31, 2006, 01:00 AM

Quote:

"you can own a silencer you just cant put it on a gun and use it"

if you heard this in WA state, that would be correct

gunslinger555 · July 31, 2006, 03:14 PM

no this was at a gun show in allen county, ohio oh and a nother ive heard (not at a gun show) was that short barreled shotguns are compleatly illeagal in ohio. another ive alse heard is "ive got an sks that the sear pin has worn down so much that its full auto and its leagal" i dont think that under normal wear a gun will go on full auto.

Quote:

"they can come in your house and search any time they want to."

ive also heard this one too many times and " pay the dues every year"

AmesJainchill · July 31, 2006, 03:26 PM

It must be particularly badly made and well-used example of an SKS, but I've heard of that happening.

2? Somehow I got the idea it was sixteen sets. I...can't explain it.

gunslinger555 · July 31, 2006, 04:02 PM

Then I could be wrong. What about legality?

AmesJainchill · July 31, 2006, 05:02 PM

It'll fire more than one cartridge with one pull of the trigger, I'd guess it was illegal.

VUPDblue · July 31, 2006, 06:06 PM

and you'd be correct

Asmodeous · July 31, 2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

AmesJainchill How many sets of fingerprints do you have to send to the ATF?

None. Nor do you need CLEO signoff.

If you go corporate or trust.

444 · August 1, 2006, 11:35 AM

Here is a link to the ATF forms (aka ALL the paperwork. You can do ALL the paperwork (both sides of one sheet) on your computer from this site, then print it out for the picture and signatures (ALLthe hoops).
In the instructions included with the forms you will see that you need two sets of fingerprints (MORE hoops).

Oh the humanity !!!!!!!!!!!!

AmesJainchill · August 1, 2006, 12:33 PM

Um, where's the link 444?

Asmodeous · August 1, 2006, 01:06 PM

http://www.titleii.com/

444 · August 2, 2006, 05:26 AM

Little sleepy after work.

bbcode3 · August 13, 2006, 02:49 AM

Geez...for all the conspiracy theorists....they still have to have a warrant to "look" at your home/apt., etc....even with a class III firearm....I know many think that if you are in the registery they (ATF) can come and "no knock" your home, but they can't.....thank God for the Constitution....even tho it gets eroded yearly................NOW, for the FFL's that is another story...

raymond- · August 13, 2006, 09:15 AM

misconceptions even amonst NFA fans:

Class 2 = dealer and manuf of NFA/Title 2 firearms
Class 3 = dealer of Title 1 and Title 2
Title 1 = non NFA firearms (garden variety rifle, shotgun, pistol)
Title 2 = SBR, SBS, MG, AOW, SUPP, DD

smince · August 13, 2006, 09:19 AM

Quote:

misconceptions even amonst NFA fans:

Yes. I have an 03FFL which is a C&R FFL, but I've heard many refer to this as a "Class 3 License"

mack59 · August 13, 2006, 05:02 PM

Well in Illinois private ownership of all silencers and machine guns are verbotten - unless one is a licensed as an NFA dealer/manufacturer - then one doesn't really own them they are possessed as part of a business inventory. There might have been a grandfather clause decades ago - on that I'm not sure - doesn't do any good now. So filling out all the BATF forms and paying all the 200 dollar fees and getting all the signatures you want won't make any difference. So the answer really depends on the state in which you reside. NFA + Illinois = ZIP.

raymond- · August 13, 2006, 05:32 PM

mack- thought you still had AOW privileges and possibly DD.
did those vanish as well? if so, then you really have ZIP now.

wrcook · August 14, 2006, 03:03 PM

NY(upstate), (I dont know about the Dark Evil City) is another place where MGs legal or not are a no-no, but DDs are OK. That is why I moved to Maine. Our county CLEO thought it was great when he signed off my form, he appreciates full auto. He said that he does not worry about people who go through the paperwork, they don't cause problems. There are two other people in my neighborhood who have full autos.

July 30, 2006, 06:28 AM	#1
smince Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: Northeast Alabama Posts: 2,580	More NFA Misconceptions A few gun friends and I were talking yesterday and I mentioned that I'd been considering getting a (legal) suppressor for my 10/22 and my MKII bull-barrel pistol. Conversation went something like this: Them: "What's the tax up to now? About $450 or $500"? Me: "No. Still $200". Them: "Yeah, but that's still a lot to have to pay every year just for a toy". Me: "It's not yearly. It's a one-time-'tax' per item you buy. $200 per suppressor, $200 per MG, $200 per SBR..." Them: "You sure about that? I thought it was every year"! Me: "Pretty sure". Them: "HECK! If I'd knew that, I would have bought something a long time ago"! Edited to add: These individuals are generally pretty knowledgeable about guns and gun laws. But they missed this one badly. Last edited by smince; July 30, 2006 at 01:38 PM.

July 30, 2006, 09:44 AM	#2
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	In short, you are correct. $200 tax per item upon transfer. No yearly 'dues'. __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

July 30, 2006, 04:22 PM	#4
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	Don't forget the favorite of the internet gun forum: Yeah, you can own all that stuff but with all the hoops you have to jump through and the expense it is effectively illegal. Or the other internet favorite: You have to be RICH to own any of that stuff. On-line they make sure to use the word ALL in every sentence as in: ALL the paperwork or ALL those hoops you have to jump through. That is what I am reading but for some reason what my brain is processing is: I am a drama queen and Oh my, the sky is falling __________________ You know the rest. In the books you have read How the British Regulars fired and fled, How the farmers gave them ball for ball, From behind each fence and farmyard wall, Chasing the redcoats down the lane, Then crossing the fields to emerge again Under the trees at the turn of the road, And only pausing to fire and load.

July 30, 2006, 11:48 PM	#7
gunslinger555 Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2006 Location: Lima, ohio Posts: 580	or thair is what i hear at gun shows "you can own a silencer you just cant put it on a gun and use it" __________________ (")_(") OMG!!! I think I shot bunny in the face!

July 31, 2006, 04:02 PM	#12
gunslinger555 Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2006 Location: Lima, ohio Posts: 580	Then I could be wrong. What about legality? __________________ (")_(") OMG!!! I think I shot bunny in the face!

July 30, 2006, 04:04 PM	#3
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	Don't forget the ever popular "they can come in your house and search any time they want to."

July 30, 2006, 06:33 PM	#5
AmesJainchill Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2006 Posts: 278	How many sets of fingerprints do you have to send to the ATF?

July 30, 2006, 11:22 PM	#6
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	Two per set of Form 1s or 4s. Unless you are a corporation or a trust, and then you are exempt from prints and photos.

July 31, 2006, 12:28 AM	#8
Dave Haven Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2000 Location: near Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 790	Another one I've heard numerous times is, "You can own a machine gun; you just can't own the firing pin."

July 31, 2006, 03:26 PM	#11
AmesJainchill Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2006 Posts: 278	It must be particularly badly made and well-used example of an SKS, but I've heard of that happening. 2? Somehow I got the idea it was sixteen sets. I...can't explain it.

July 31, 2006, 05:02 PM	#13
AmesJainchill Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2006 Posts: 278	It'll fire more than one cartridge with one pull of the trigger, I'd guess it was illegal.

July 31, 2006, 06:06 PM	#14
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	and you'd be correct __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

August 1, 2006, 11:35 AM	#16
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	Here is a link to the ATF forms (aka ALL the paperwork. You can do ALL the paperwork (both sides of one sheet) on your computer from this site, then print it out for the picture and signatures (ALLthe hoops). In the instructions included with the forms you will see that you need two sets of fingerprints (MORE hoops). Oh the humanity !!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ You know the rest. In the books you have read How the British Regulars fired and fled, How the farmers gave them ball for ball, From behind each fence and farmyard wall, Chasing the redcoats down the lane, Then crossing the fields to emerge again Under the trees at the turn of the road, And only pausing to fire and load.

August 1, 2006, 12:33 PM	#17
AmesJainchill Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2006 Posts: 278	Um, where's the link 444?

August 1, 2006, 01:06 PM	#18
Asmodeous Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2002 Posts: 114	http://www.titleii.com/

August 2, 2006, 05:26 AM	#19
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	That's It Little sleepy after work. __________________ You know the rest. In the books you have read How the British Regulars fired and fled, How the farmers gave them ball for ball, From behind each fence and farmyard wall, Chasing the redcoats down the lane, Then crossing the fields to emerge again Under the trees at the turn of the road, And only pausing to fire and load.

August 13, 2006, 02:49 AM	#20
bbcode3 Member Join Date: February 15, 2005 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 18	Guys....they (ATF) can't come w/o a warrant..... Geez...for all the conspiracy theorists....they still have to have a warrant to "look" at your home/apt., etc....even with a class III firearm....I know many think that if you are in the registery they (ATF) can come and "no knock" your home, but they can't.....thank God for the Constitution....even tho it gets eroded yearly................NOW, for the FFL's that is another story...

August 13, 2006, 09:15 AM	#21
raymond- Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 179	misconceptions even amonst NFA fans: Class 2 = dealer and manuf of NFA/Title 2 firearms Class 3 = dealer of Title 1 and Title 2 Title 1 = non NFA firearms (garden variety rifle, shotgun, pistol) Title 2 = SBR, SBS, MG, AOW, SUPP, DD __________________ raymond- 47.5N 122.2W

August 13, 2006, 05:02 PM	#23
mack59 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2004 Posts: 447	Well in Illinois private ownership of all silencers and machine guns are verbotten - unless one is a licensed as an NFA dealer/manufacturer - then one doesn't really own them they are possessed as part of a business inventory. There might have been a grandfather clause decades ago - on that I'm not sure - doesn't do any good now. So filling out all the BATF forms and paying all the 200 dollar fees and getting all the signatures you want won't make any difference. So the answer really depends on the state in which you reside. NFA + Illinois = ZIP.

August 13, 2006, 05:32 PM	#24
raymond- Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 179	mack- thought you still had AOW privileges and possibly DD. did those vanish as well? if so, then you really have ZIP now. __________________ raymond- 47.5N 122.2W

August 14, 2006, 03:03 PM	#25
wrcook Member Join Date: July 7, 2004 Posts: 30	NY(upstate), (I dont know about the Dark Evil City) is another place where MGs legal or not are a no-no, but DDs are OK. That is why I moved to Maine. Our county CLEO thought it was great when he signed off my form, he appreciates full auto. He said that he does not worry about people who go through the paperwork, they don't cause problems. There are two other people in my neighborhood who have full autos.

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