Short range .308 gut puncher

[Paddycakes]

Hey all, brand new to the boards and to reloading. So, I'm hoping to be hitting quarters at a thousand yards here in the next week... HA!

Just loaded some winchester brass with 170gr Sierra Flat nose 30-30 bullets on top of 39.3 gr of IMR 4064, trying to have a round that is good for dropping deer fast within the 30 to 70 yard range in decent brush. I do not have a chrono so I can't tell what my fps is gonna be, I am hoping somewhere broadly between 2300 and 2400. Any more experienced hunters/reloaders worked with a similar round who might clue me in on the performance and bullet expansion?

I know you guys are all wise; I'd appreciate some feedback from first hand experience more than hypothetical info.

Tikka T3 Lite in .308WIN 11" twist

[jwrowland77]

I haven't tried 4064 in my .30-30 yet. I am using that LeveRevolution though with a 170gr Nosler Partition, running around 2350 and it's pretty accurate. Don't sell yourself short on yardage though. A 170gr .30-30 running fast enough can be accurate out to 300yd cold bore. I was shooting mine out to 300 this morning and it did great. Gave me 1.5 MOA. I'll take that for deer hunting any day. At 300yd, I still have around 850#'s of energy.

[F. Guffey]

I haven't tried 4064 in my .30-30 yet.

I have two 308 W heavy/long barrels I am trying to decide what I am goin to do with them. I have two 30/30s, I can draw small dots on a target and hit all three dots with three shots. I have never seen a rifle that was that predictable, nor have I ever seen anything stand still long to get off three shots.

F. Guffey

http://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_r...vs_refined.htm

[T. O'Heir]

You're shooting a Tikka .308 Win using a 170 grain FP and not a .30-30. Right?
Not a lot of 170 grain specific data for .308(lots for 168's and 165's. 2 to 5 grains won't matter much.). Stevespages suggests your ok, load wise, but 2300 to 2400(that's really high for a 170 out of a .30-30 with IMR4064. A max load runs about 2,090 fps) isn't going to happen with 39.3 of IMR4064(slightly below Hodgdon's minimum for a 168 though.). No velocities on Stevespages.
However, a 168 starts at 2518 according Hodgdon(no 170 grain .308 Win data there.).
Still isn't something I'd worry about if the load shoots well out of your Tikka. It's safe and accuracy is far more important than velocity.

[Paddycakes]

Thanks T. O'Heir, I will be more cognizant of my grammar in the future. Yes, I did mean to imply that the rifle for which I am loading is a Tikka T3 Lite in .308WIN with an 11" barrel twist. The Sierra 170gr FN bullets measure out to .308", though they are marketed (and labeled as such) for the 30-30. Just this afternoon I set up a 65 yard safe-way and allowed to remain a decent amount of small and medium brush throughout the firing lane. From prone, with bugs crawling all over my legs, I grouped five rounds within an inch (not saying much I know) which was very satisfactory. My estimated FPS range of 2300-2400 comes as a result of approximating the difference against the load data for the Sierra 180gr RN in my Brownells .308WIN load book, which puts the bullet reaching 2400 FPS on top of the same load (39.3gr) of IMR-4064.

I have seen elsewhere the hypothesis that the jacket on this particular bullet is not strong enough to withstand the higher FPS of the .308WIN cartridge, and therefore will be less accurate and expand too soon upon impacting the hide of medium game. I am still interested to know if anyone has taken game with a similar round out of a .308WIN and how well the bullet performed at .308WIN velocity. Hypothetically though, I think this baby might be just what I was hoping for - I will be loading the next batch with an extra grain of powder and hopefully finding someone with a chroma to give an accurate measurement.

[Paul B.]

Will info using that bullet from a 30-06 help you? Seriously, when I lived in California many long years ago, I used to hunt up in the far northwest corner of the state. That's rain forest country especially up close to the Oregon border. Shoot a deer up there and if it ran more than about 25 yards you'd never find it. I loaded to an estimated 2500 FPS (Easy to do in the .308 as well) and tried to not hit a shoulder. Didn't always succeed and devastation was quite dramatic.
My rifle at the time was a bubba'd 1903 Springfield with peep sight and barrel cut to 20". Even good heart/lung areas would leave quite a nasty hole. My philosophy was, "Better to lose a quarter of a deer than the whole animal." I think that 2400 FPS to 2500 FPS should work just fine for your purpose.
Paul B.

[jmr40]

I picked up a box of 150 gr Remington Corelokt RN bullets several years ago by mistake. I thought I'd bought spitzers until I got home. I tried some lighter loads at about the same speeds using both 4064 and 3031. I don't recall the exact load, but never could get more than 2-3 MOA. I never hunted with them, but did go ahead and load up all of them to use up some 3031 powder and used them for plinking at the range.


I wouldn't do it again by design. There is no real advantage to not just using a 150-165 gr spitzer at normal 308 speeds. They work just as well up close as the slower RN bullets and are far better at longer ranges and tend to be much more accurate. Not enough recoil difference to worry about.

[Paddycakes]

Thanks Paul, that does help quite a bit. Thats pretty much exactly what I was hoping to hear about the bullet, and hopefully I can attain similar results with my cartridges.

In case of unsatisfactory expansion, I will also be topping cartridges with Hornady's 180gr Interlock SP and 165gr V-max SSTs, I just don't expect to be taking shots on meat at any further than 85 yards.

[Paddycakes]

jmr40, good deal. I was a little apprehensive about loading the pointy bullets at such close range, and when tracking a deer more than 30 yards in the wrong direction means heading into someone else's property. I bought the FN rounds thinking it would be a Mike Tyson style wallop at these ranges, I guess I'll find out in a month or two! I do feel about better about perhaps not buying them again and sticking to a bullet I know will be more accurate and versatile, though even a 200 yard shot is very hard to come by in my particular area.

[Jimro]

Let us know how the hunting goes.

At 100 yards and under even a 4 MOA load is fine for hunting deer. And keeping the velocity between 2100 and 2300 at the muzzle shouldn't cause any bullet breakup issues on impact.

I think your loads should do quite nicely for hunting.

Jimro

[buck460XVR]

I know what the term "gut-puncher" means in general terms, but really doubt if it's the same for deer hunting.

Someone please clue me in.......

[Paddycakes]

buck460, I suppose I was using a loose metaphor regarding my own experience with that particular type of punch that when thrown and placed properly immediately incapacitates the recipient, being dropped to the ground and 'out of the fight' if you will. I'm sure there is a better name for it but I tend to be a little too colorful for the good of proper communication sometimes The metaphor entailing also that the punch doesn't necessarily have to hit the recipient directly in the solar plexis, but when thrown by a strong and fast enough arm and hard enough fist will do the same degree of damage if it connects anywhere within that 5" circle of upper gut/lower lung area.

[Paddycakes]

Got the chrono in yesterday, come the weekend we will have a few numbers