|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
November 11, 2012, 10:38 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 779
|
AR 15 Full Auto for Pennies
Figure the title would turn a few heads. Anyway, I am doing script coverage for my company and one of the sections goes as follows:
"Across his lap is the AR 15 assault rifle. He has it mostly disassembled and is in the process of placing three pennies behind the firing pin, making a semiautomatic rifle a machine gun." Besides the /hilarious/ misuse of terminology, is there any substantial backing to the idea that one can use pennies, or anything else, to alter the firing pin to become fully automatic? Which also brings me to a large ATF encounter commandeering a shipment of airsoft guns under the statue of "easy conversion" to real automatic weapons. I have my personal bias against this inane enforcement (personally i find it irrational to regulated a weapon's firing capabilities), however how easy is it actually make a semi-automatic weapon full auto? or am i missing something
__________________
I told the new me, "Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'" But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back." Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor |
November 11, 2012, 10:52 PM | #2 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 6, 2012
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 1,670
|
wrong....twice
No, that would not make it fully automatic. Pennies won't even fit in the BCG behind the firing pin.
Where did you hear that would work? And do you have a link to the ATF's commandeering of said airsoft gun shipment? Airsoft guns cannot be modified to fire live ammunition.... If this is the type of stuff that is told to Cali's civilians and politicians then no wonder the gun laws are like they are over there...... In conclusion: Quote:
Last edited by allaroundhunter; November 11, 2012 at 11:34 PM. Reason: forgot my conclusion |
|
November 11, 2012, 11:21 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 5, 2008
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 1,281
|
This would actually make the rifle completely inoperative. the firing pin would never get hit.
And as noted, air soft guns work on an entirely different principle that an actual gun. Its easier and more cost effective to make you own than to try to modify an airsoft gun.
__________________
There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people. |
November 11, 2012, 11:27 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 1,037
|
If your Google-Fu is strong, search for
"M16 Auto Sear Diagram" You will find numerous websites that have drawings and photos of what makes the sear mechanism function in a fully automatic mode, including photos of a "drop in" auto sear that was available about 30 years ago or so. (You'll note that pennies do not figure into any of the drawings...)
__________________
Treat everyone you meet with dignity and respect....but have a plan to kill them just in case. |
November 11, 2012, 11:35 PM | #5 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 6, 2012
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 1,670
|
Quote:
|
|
November 12, 2012, 12:19 AM | #6 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 18, 2010
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 237
|
Quote:
|
|
November 12, 2012, 01:03 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 18, 2009
Location: NorthWest USA
Posts: 1,996
|
A thread like this should be deleted. Nothing good can come of discussing how a semiauto trigger group can be converted illegally to fire full auto.
On the other hand bumpfiring appears to be legal but highly stupid. Your script (whatever that may be) would be more accurate discussing something like rubber bands or string that can be bought for pennies to simulate full auto fire (not true automatic fire). |
November 12, 2012, 01:20 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 779
|
The point of the thread was for clarification on the inaccuracy of the script. I'm not advocating altering weapons or proliferating illegal activity. I have seen multiple times where the ATF, Hollywood, or such have used a baseless premise for automatic fear mongering.
The penny example is only one of them and seemed particularly strange.
__________________
I told the new me, "Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'" But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back." Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor |
November 12, 2012, 09:55 PM | #9 |
member
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
|
1. As pointed out, pennies could not fit behind the firing pin, and if they could, would stop the hammer from hitting the pin and the weapon would not fire at all. So that theory is just bizarre.
2. Regarding airsoft rifles, the problem was that some of them were so similar to the real thing that you could take the automatic airsoft lower and put a real firearm upper on it and conceivably have an unregistered machinegun. To the extent that can happen, it is a concern for ATF. Even with a lower that perfectly matched a machinegun lower, there are still some minor differences (often bolt carrier and firing pin flange diameter) that would make most semi-auto uppers on a machinegun lower slightly less reliable than an actual M4. |
November 12, 2012, 11:39 PM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 6, 2012
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 1,670
|
Quote:
|
|
November 13, 2012, 12:48 AM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 18, 2009
Location: NorthWest USA
Posts: 1,996
|
So why go into detail at all? Why don't you just change the script to:
"Across his lap is the AR 15 rifle. He has it mostly disassembled and is in the process of making a semiautomatic rifle a machine gun." |
November 13, 2012, 01:13 AM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 779
|
I'm reviewing the script, not writing it. It's illegal to tamper with the words unless I have the rights to it.
And all around hunter asked my question too. I heard the airsoft guns had different sized lowers that were incompatible with AR uppers
__________________
I told the new me, "Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'" But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back." Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor |
November 13, 2012, 01:33 AM | #13 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 17, 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 610
|
No, pennies wouldn't work. There are some methods that would, but pennies are not one of them.
As for converting an airsoft gun into a firearm. Well, with enough money and effort you can convert damn near anything into a firearm. However there are much easier ways of building an AR-15, even a full-auto one than converting an airsoft gun. Sort of like converting a car into a plane. You're better off just building the plane from scratch. 80% lowers are readily available, and once you make them into a complete semi-auto lower, there's only one more small pocket to cut out to make it select-fire. Quote:
The gas-powered ones (those are the ones ATF kinda got twitchy about) are much closer to the real AR lowers in design and dimensions. You can actually mate a real upper to it. However the FCG pins (and the FCG itself) are slightly out of place. So If you used a real BCG, the hammer wouldn't strike it. Also the inner cavity is cut somewhat wider inside so real FCG parts, won't fit. Again, with the amount of work necessary to make these lowers work, you may as well just take an 80%er and make a select-fire lower from scratch. BTW I'm really not sure what ATF actually did about it. I guess they decided they had their head up their ass and these airsoft guns are not infact "readily convertible" Considering the fact that pretty much every major airsoft retailer in the country has been selling them for years now, and none of them have yet to get raided. |
|
November 13, 2012, 07:07 AM | #14 |
Staff in Memoriam
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
Posts: 24,798
|
Looks like the OP's question is answered.
|
|
|