NFA engraving abbreviations

HarEngSer · February 14, 2009, 11:52 AM

I've heard through the grape vine that that ATF is no longer accepting abbreviations in the engraving for NFA weapons. It now Harford engraving services' policy to spell out all the engraving but it does not effect the price. Just FYI for everybody as I find out.

Chipperman · February 14, 2009, 01:29 PM

They want full names now. State Abbr is ok.

freakshow10mm · February 14, 2009, 03:09 PM

I haven't heard anything from them. All my NFA weapons are engraved "Freakshow Mfg". Never called into question. Might be different for SOTs than Form 1s.

HarEngSer · February 14, 2009, 05:49 PM

Do you have a marking varience? Not that its hard to figure out but we all know how the ATF can change their mind and decide to enforce something they used to ignore.

freakshow10mm · February 14, 2009, 08:18 PM

No. Federal law states "the name of the manufacturer or recognized abbreviation".

VUPDblue · February 14, 2009, 10:38 PM

The way I understand it, they are only cracking-down on abbreviations when registered to a trust. J.B. Doe Trust is not legally the same as John Barry Doe Trust. That would be the reasoning for the ruling.

Gun Trust Lawyer · February 17, 2009, 12:16 PM

Unfortunately there are no recognized abbreviations other than the state names. I have discussed this with the ATF and their response is that when or if the item is ever sold or transferred, that is when the ATF will pick up the invalid engraving.

Again its is important to realize that a receipt of a tax stamp does not mean that they approve what is contained in the form. Many trusts are approved eventhough the trusts are invalid.

freakshow10mm · February 17, 2009, 03:49 PM

At what time does the ATF ever see the actual physical engraving on a NFA firearm? I know damn well NFA transfers sight unseen thousands of times. Furthermore, I can engrave my NFA weapons with "Freakshow Mfg" as that is a recognized abbreviation.

HarEngSer · February 17, 2009, 05:04 PM

I believe that is mostly individuals. Where you can have 20k J.D. Trust but only one john doe revocable living trust that is setup in "Atlanta, GA". There is only one Freakshow Manufacturing so shortening it to MFG is not as big a deal. However if it was just F.S. MFG. then I could see a issue where a varience should be looked at.

freakshow10mm · February 18, 2009, 12:21 AM

Or I could add a trade name under the company name on my FFL and go with that too.

Gun Trust Lawyer · February 18, 2009, 09:33 AM

In my conversations with their compliance department, I was specifically told that the only "recognized abbreviations" for the states. The NFA does state

Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;

But when I contacted them for a list of recognized abbreviation they stated that there were no recognized abbreviations for anything other than states.

They also stated that when people are caught for improper engravings is when the weapon is submitted for a future transfer. ( at death or sale)

If you want to contact them to clarify your position you can email the ATF at [email protected]. If you would like me to email them for you to keep your identity private, I would be happy to do so just contact me offline.

freakshow10mm · February 18, 2009, 10:27 AM

I have the NFA Branch on speed dial. I don't care about identity. My name is Adam Frank and I'm the owner of Freakshow Manufacturing LLC. Big whoopie.

Explain why Kimber, whose FFL license name states "Kimber Manufacturing Incorporated" marks their frames "Kimber Mfg" WITHOUT a marking variance. If Kimber was violating the law by the manner in which they mark their receivers, wouldn't you think the ATF would say something and they would have changed?

February 14, 2009, 11:52 AM	#1
HarEngSer Junior Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Posts: 13	NFA engraving abbreviations I've heard through the grape vine that that ATF is no longer accepting abbreviations in the engraving for NFA weapons. It now Harford engraving services' policy to spell out all the engraving but it does not effect the price. Just FYI for everybody as I find out.

February 14, 2009, 10:38 PM	#6
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	The way I understand it, they are only cracking-down on abbreviations when registered to a trust. J.B. Doe Trust is not legally the same as John Barry Doe Trust. That would be the reasoning for the ruling. __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

February 17, 2009, 12:16 PM	#7
Gun Trust Lawyer Junior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 11	Recognized Abreviations Unfortunately there are no recognized abbreviations other than the state names. I have discussed this with the ATF and their response is that when or if the item is ever sold or transferred, that is when the ATF will pick up the invalid engraving. Again its is important to realize that a receipt of a tax stamp does not mean that they approve what is contained in the form. Many trusts are approved eventhough the trusts are invalid. __________________ David Goldman , Esquire - Apple Law Firm, PLLC Tel (904) 685-1200 http://www.GunTrustLawyer.com/

February 17, 2009, 05:04 PM	#9
HarEngSer Junior Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Posts: 13	I believe that is mostly individuals. Where you can have 20k J.D. Trust but only one john doe revocable living trust that is setup in "Atlanta, GA". There is only one Freakshow Manufacturing so shortening it to MFG is not as big a deal. However if it was just F.S. MFG. then I could see a issue where a varience should be looked at. __________________ http://www.HarEngSer.com

February 18, 2009, 09:33 AM	#11
Gun Trust Lawyer Junior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 11	How ATF will find out you used MFG In my conversations with their compliance department, I was specifically told that the only "recognized abbreviations" for the states. The NFA does state Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker; But when I contacted them for a list of recognized abbreviation they stated that there were no recognized abbreviations for anything other than states. They also stated that when people are caught for improper engravings is when the weapon is submitted for a future transfer. ( at death or sale) If you want to contact them to clarify your position you can email the ATF at [email protected]. If you would like me to email them for you to keep your identity private, I would be happy to do so just contact me offline. __________________ David Goldman , Esquire - Apple Law Firm, PLLC Tel (904) 685-1200 http://www.GunTrustLawyer.com/

February 14, 2009, 01:29 PM	#2
Chipperman Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Location: Live Free or Die, Baby! Posts: 1,550	They want full names now. State Abbr is ok.

February 14, 2009, 03:09 PM	#3
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	I haven't heard anything from them. All my NFA weapons are engraved "Freakshow Mfg". Never called into question. Might be different for SOTs than Form 1s.

February 14, 2009, 05:49 PM	#4
HarEngSer Junior Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Posts: 13	Do you have a marking varience? Not that its hard to figure out but we all know how the ATF can change their mind and decide to enforce something they used to ignore.

February 14, 2009, 08:18 PM	#5
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	No. Federal law states "the name of the manufacturer or recognized abbreviation".

February 17, 2009, 03:49 PM	#8
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	At what time does the ATF ever see the actual physical engraving on a NFA firearm? I know damn well NFA transfers sight unseen thousands of times. Furthermore, I can engrave my NFA weapons with "Freakshow Mfg" as that is a recognized abbreviation.

February 18, 2009, 12:21 AM	#10
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	Or I could add a trade name under the company name on my FFL and go with that too.

February 18, 2009, 10:27 AM	#12
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	I have the NFA Branch on speed dial. I don't care about identity. My name is Adam Frank and I'm the owner of Freakshow Manufacturing LLC. Big whoopie. Explain why Kimber, whose FFL license name states "Kimber Manufacturing Incorporated" marks their frames "Kimber Mfg" WITHOUT a marking variance. If Kimber was violating the law by the manner in which they mark their receivers, wouldn't you think the ATF would say something and they would have changed?