Ok stupid hypothetical question

MikeGoob · March 13, 2009, 11:24 AM

Can a live round discharge via a static electric shock to the primer?

Dingoboyx · March 13, 2009, 11:35 AM

If you were very, very, very, very, very, very, very unlucky

However, I wouldnt try plugging one into a wall socket

I havent heard of it happening, yet. A first time for everything tho, I suppose.

Dont loose any sleep over it tho

Muzza

MikeGoob · March 13, 2009, 11:40 AM

not a worry really. Just something I thought about and had to ask the experts!

markr · March 13, 2009, 11:45 AM

We have all heard the statement "There are no stupid questions". The reason being: If the answer sets the asker on the right course, it's a good question. Not to mention the guy who was off course but afraid to ask. However, some questions are funnier than others

wncchester · March 13, 2009, 01:07 PM

"Can a live round discharge via a static electric shock to the primer?"

Only if the static discharge is a bolt of lightening. "Normal" static won't do it.

PCJim · March 13, 2009, 03:34 PM

I doubt it on the current standard ammo.

There are new ammo designs being tested for the military that use electric primers. I had read something about it back late last summer in one of the NRA magazines.

SL1 · March 13, 2009, 03:58 PM

As long as the primer cup and anvil are well connected to each other and the case, the current should not go through the priming compound, and so should not affect it. The same is true for a person sitting in a car during an electrical storm. You are inside an elecrtical "cage" and the current has a tendency to stay on the outside.

Lightning is a little different than a simple static discharge, because it is really MANY pulses over a very short period of time. So, it takes on some characteristics of high-frequency alternating current. That causes some effects that are hard to predict or even explain.

Now, if the current going through your primer and case is enough to HEAT the primer, then "bang" is a definite possibility.

SL1

Dingoboyx · March 13, 2009, 04:52 PM

Was that a pun when you said "current" primers??

Well said anyway, I like it, I guess you have a whole VOLT full of answers like that?

Ohm my god, did I just write that? I think that was AMPle humour thanks very much...

I better ZAP out of here before I get CHARGED, and someone UNPLUGS me? I hope I dont get the ELECTRIC chair for really stoopid gags?

especially if convicted on PRIMER faeces evenence

Boy am I WIRED today?

hehehehehe

CountryJoe · March 13, 2009, 05:52 PM

If a center fire round goes off and is not in a chamber, controlling the force, the primer will usually pop out first. Even when the bullet pops out, the force is not contained and it does not fly real far.

On the other hand, a rimfire round will cause all kinds of havoc.

Don't ask me how I know about this

FrankenMauser · March 13, 2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

There are new ammo designs being tested for the military that use electric primers. I had read something about it back late last summer in one of the NRA magazines.

Electronic primers have been used for many decades. They are typically found in larger munitions. The high cost of producing them for small arms made them impractical. However, the technology has been around for quite a while. For those that never saw the civilian version... do a search for the Remington E-tronix rifle and ammo.

As for static discharging standard percussion primers; the possibility is there, but very low. I suspect you would actually have to discharge the static directly into the priming compound.

Double Naught Spy · March 14, 2009, 08:11 AM

Quote:

If a center fire round goes off and is not in a chamber, controlling the force, the primer will usually pop out first. Even when the bullet pops out, the force is not contained and it does not fly real far.

On the other hand, a rimfire round will cause all kinds of havoc.

Um, no, the primer just doesn't pop out. If that was all that happened, you would have a little rocket, which would be cool to watch, but that isn't all that happens. The whole case ruptures. Granted, the lead doesn't go anywhere really, but shrapnel from the case can, not real far, but it is a definite eye risk.

.22 cases my rupture or "shoot" a short distance, leaving the lead close by. Once again, not much real risk except to the eyes.

CountryJoe · March 15, 2009, 11:25 AM

Um, in my experience, yes. Here's the story. When I was much younger, many decades ago, some friends, being of the not thinking teenager type, threw several 38s in a camp fire, thinking they were being funny. Everyone dove and all that was heard were pops. When we looked and picked the shells out, the primers were gone but most had the bullet still in the case. All had a good laugh and then the same knuckleheads threw in a bunch of 22s. Thinking nothing would happen, no one moved. The next thing we hear is loud cracks and objects wizzing threw the brush. It made everyone dive for cover, until we were sure that the excitement was over.

Of course, I am not recommending that anyone throw any live rounds of any type into a fire.

SKULLANDCROSSBONES65 · March 15, 2009, 11:41 AM

G'day. My mother eventually stopped throwing rubbish from my bedroom into the open fire. It took several lessons though. Live .22 is not household rubbish.

Tuzo · March 15, 2009, 01:18 PM

One night when his charge was pretty high, Micro Henry decided to try to get a cute little coil to let him discharge. He picked up Millie Amp and took her for a ride on his Mega cycle. They rode across the Wheatstone Bridge, around by the sine wave, and stopped in a magnetic field by a flowing current.

Micro Henry, attracted by Millie's characteristic curves, soon had her resistance at a minimum and his field was fully excited. He laid her on the ground potential, raised her frequency, lowered her capacitance, and pulled out his high voltage probe. He inserted his probe into her test socket, connected them in parallel, and began to short circuit her shunt.

Fully excited Millie Amp exclaimed, "Mho, mho, mho." With his tube operating at maximum peak current and her coil vibrating from the current flow, she soon reached her maximum peak potential. The excess current flow had gotten her coil hot and Micro Henry started rapidly discharging and soon had drained off every last electron.

They fluxed all night trying various connections and sockets until Micro Henry's bar magnet had lost all its field strength. Afterwards, Millie Amp tried self induction and damaged her solenoid. With batteries fully discharged Micro Henry was unable to further excite his generator; so, they ended it all by reversing polarity and blowing each other's fuses.

(old but still funny in a nerdy way)

bodab · March 15, 2009, 05:05 PM

LMAO!!!

hardhit · March 15, 2009, 05:10 PM

Get the myth Busters on the job.....

wncchester · March 15, 2009, 06:25 PM

"...she soon reached her maximum peak potential.

Was that actual peak, average or RMS? And did she smoke her killa watt out before the cathode melted?

Russ5924 · March 15, 2009, 06:41 PM

How about the guy that was in the news this week. Was out in his driveway hitting cartridges with a hammer

Why and what I don't know but 911 got a call about a man shot, when they arrived they found him with shrapnel in his legs

I think he may have learned his lesson

Wasn't there something on myth busters about putting .22 in a auto fuse holder but they went off from heat of a dead short.

Tuzo · March 15, 2009, 07:45 PM

The Mythbusters devoted a portion of one episode to the Darwin Award story of two rednecks using a live .22 as a replacement fuse. Memory says the .22 worked until it overheated due to greatly increased resistance and blew. As a result of this incident, and the high probability of rednecks everywhere to repeat this stunt, the legal profession, over-protective legislative bodies, self-professed do-gooders, and the auto industry redesigned fuses and fuse holders in automobiles.

Another Mythbuster episode proved and disproved the "shoot the lock off" tactic. Bullets fired from hand guns only made locks look ugly with no effect. High powered rifle bullets, a .308 I believe, made the need for a key moot. Bushmaster approached Master Lock with the proposal to provide a Bushmaster with every Master Lock. As with previously mentioned fuses the same groups (except the auto industry) put a stop to that most excellent idea.

March 13, 2009, 11:24 AM	#1
MikeGoob Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Posts: 876	Ok stupid hypothetical question Can a live round discharge via a static electric shock to the primer?

March 13, 2009, 11:35 AM	#2
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	Probably If you were very, very, very, very, very, very, very unlucky However, I wouldnt try plugging one into a wall socket I havent heard of it happening, yet. A first time for everything tho, I suppose. Dont loose any sleep over it tho Muzza __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs

March 13, 2009, 11:45 AM	#4
markr Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: Arsenal of Democracy Posts: 405	We have all heard the statement "There are no stupid questions". The reason being: If the answer sets the asker on the right course, it's a good question. Not to mention the guy who was off course but afraid to ask. However, some questions are funnier than others __________________ I like to make beer, bullets, and jerky.....but not at the same time. Washed up 11B1P

March 13, 2009, 04:52 PM	#8
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	PCJim Was that a pun when you said "current" primers?? Well said anyway, I like it, I guess you have a whole VOLT full of answers like that? Ohm my god, did I just write that? I think that was AMPle humour thanks very much... I better ZAP out of here before I get CHARGED, and someone UNPLUGS me? I hope I dont get the ELECTRIC chair for really stoopid gags? especially if convicted on PRIMER faeces evenence Boy am I WIRED today? hehehehehe __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs

March 15, 2009, 11:41 AM	#13
SKULLANDCROSSBONES65 Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2008 Location: Far Nth Wst QLD Australia Posts: 992	G'day. My mother eventually stopped throwing rubbish from my bedroom into the open fire. It took several lessons though. Live .22 is not household rubbish. __________________ If you're not confused, you're not trying hard enough! When you're confused, I'll try to use smaller words!!!

March 13, 2009, 11:40 AM	#3
MikeGoob Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Posts: 876	not a worry really. Just something I thought about and had to ask the experts!

March 13, 2009, 01:07 PM	#5
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"Can a live round discharge via a static electric shock to the primer?" Only if the static discharge is a bolt of lightening. "Normal" static won't do it.

March 13, 2009, 03:34 PM	#6
PCJim Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Location: FL Posts: 570	I doubt it on the current standard ammo. There are new ammo designs being tested for the military that use electric primers. I had read something about it back late last summer in one of the NRA magazines.

March 13, 2009, 03:58 PM	#7
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	As long as the primer cup and anvil are well connected to each other and the case, the current should not go through the priming compound, and so should not affect it. The same is true for a person sitting in a car during an electrical storm. You are inside an elecrtical "cage" and the current has a tendency to stay on the outside. Lightning is a little different than a simple static discharge, because it is really MANY pulses over a very short period of time. So, it takes on some characteristics of high-frequency alternating current. That causes some effects that are hard to predict or even explain. Now, if the current going through your primer and case is enough to HEAT the primer, then "bang" is a definite possibility. SL1

March 13, 2009, 05:52 PM	#9
CountryJoe Junior Member Join Date: December 31, 2008 Posts: 6	If a center fire round goes off and is not in a chamber, controlling the force, the primer will usually pop out first. Even when the bullet pops out, the force is not contained and it does not fly real far. On the other hand, a rimfire round will cause all kinds of havoc. Don't ask me how I know about this

March 15, 2009, 11:25 AM	#12
CountryJoe Junior Member Join Date: December 31, 2008 Posts: 6	Um, in my experience, yes. Here's the story. When I was much younger, many decades ago, some friends, being of the not thinking teenager type, threw several 38s in a camp fire, thinking they were being funny. Everyone dove and all that was heard were pops. When we looked and picked the shells out, the primers were gone but most had the bullet still in the case. All had a good laugh and then the same knuckleheads threw in a bunch of 22s. Thinking nothing would happen, no one moved. The next thing we hear is loud cracks and objects wizzing threw the brush. It made everyone dive for cover, until we were sure that the excitement was over. Of course, I am not recommending that anyone throw any live rounds of any type into a fire.

March 15, 2009, 01:18 PM	#14
Tuzo Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 797	Not firearm-related but a lesson in electrical theory One night when his charge was pretty high, Micro Henry decided to try to get a cute little coil to let him discharge. He picked up Millie Amp and took her for a ride on his Mega cycle. They rode across the Wheatstone Bridge, around by the sine wave, and stopped in a magnetic field by a flowing current. Micro Henry, attracted by Millie's characteristic curves, soon had her resistance at a minimum and his field was fully excited. He laid her on the ground potential, raised her frequency, lowered her capacitance, and pulled out his high voltage probe. He inserted his probe into her test socket, connected them in parallel, and began to short circuit her shunt. Fully excited Millie Amp exclaimed, "Mho, mho, mho." With his tube operating at maximum peak current and her coil vibrating from the current flow, she soon reached her maximum peak potential. The excess current flow had gotten her coil hot and Micro Henry started rapidly discharging and soon had drained off every last electron. They fluxed all night trying various connections and sockets until Micro Henry's bar magnet had lost all its field strength. Afterwards, Millie Amp tried self induction and damaged her solenoid. With batteries fully discharged Micro Henry was unable to further excite his generator; so, they ended it all by reversing polarity and blowing each other's fuses. (old but still funny in a nerdy way)

March 15, 2009, 05:05 PM	#15
bodab Member Join Date: December 13, 2005 Posts: 82	TUZO LMAO!!!

March 15, 2009, 05:10 PM	#16
hardhit Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2008 Posts: 343	Get the myth Busters on the job.....

March 15, 2009, 06:25 PM	#17
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"...she soon reached her maximum peak potential. Was that actual peak, average or RMS? And did she smoke her killa watt out before the cathode melted?

March 15, 2009, 06:41 PM	#18
Russ5924 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Posts: 1,874	How about the guy that was in the news this week. Was out in his driveway hitting cartridges with a hammer Why and what I don't know but 911 got a call about a man shot, when they arrived they found him with shrapnel in his legs I think he may have learned his lesson Wasn't there something on myth busters about putting .22 in a auto fuse holder but they went off from heat of a dead short. __________________ Russ5924

March 15, 2009, 07:45 PM	#19
Tuzo Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 797	.22 as automobile fuse The Mythbusters devoted a portion of one episode to the Darwin Award story of two rednecks using a live .22 as a replacement fuse. Memory says the .22 worked until it overheated due to greatly increased resistance and blew. As a result of this incident, and the high probability of rednecks everywhere to repeat this stunt, the legal profession, over-protective legislative bodies, self-professed do-gooders, and the auto industry redesigned fuses and fuse holders in automobiles. Another Mythbuster episode proved and disproved the "shoot the lock off" tactic. Bullets fired from hand guns only made locks look ugly with no effect. High powered rifle bullets, a .308 I believe, made the need for a key moot. Bushmaster approached Master Lock with the proposal to provide a Bushmaster with every Master Lock. As with previously mentioned fuses the same groups (except the auto industry) put a stop to that most excellent idea.