Need help identifying this .22 pistol

[StephenCD]

My Father-in-law recently passed away and I received this from my Mother-in-law.
There are NO identifying marks on it except perhaps a very worn 22 on the left side of the frame. Tried to get a picture of it but it does not show up.
The frame appears to be steel, flat with-out decoration. The handle appears to be wood but may be Bakelite with wood finish.
The frame itself is three pieces, left side, right side and main frame from front of trigger guard to butt of hand grip.
Trying to upload 3 pictures but so far no luck.
Going to try just up-loading the pics separate.
Can anyone identify this? Appreciate any help you can give.

[Spats McGee]

Welcome to TFL!

Are you talking about a revolver or a semi-auto? Pictures would be a huge help here. We have a thread on how to post them here: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292842

ETA #1: Looks like you got the pics uploaded. Good start.
ETA #2: Sadly, I have no idea what that is. Hopefully, someone here can help you out.

[StephenCD]

Thank you, been searching for days on the internet without luck. I'm wondering if it's homemade. With Jake gone there's no one to ask where he got it.
But, knowing him, either an auction or garage sale. He did love his sale events.

[Goatwhiskers]

I would hazard a guess that it is one of the cheap imports that were brought in from Belgium and other countries in the early years of the previous century. I would hand it on the wall in a shadow box because of the sentimental value. Chances are it is likely chambered for .22LR but I wouldn't advise shooting it, probably safe enough but parts would be made of unobtanium and you'd never get it fixed if it broke. GW

[StephenCD]

As there are no screws in the frame, or they have been all ground down flat, there is to way to dis-assemble to discern if it is safe to shoot.
The break down button seems to have been engraved like a pinecone! Actually not sure what it looks like. But it is engraved.
I was actually planning to put it back up on her wall after I was able to find out a bit about it.

[RJay]

It is an import, probably Belgium, perhaps Spanish, but I don't think so. I would think it would be safe shooting low power CB Longs ( CCI ). Looks like it would be fun to shoot.

[T. O'Heir]

You take a dandy picture. Just the right size too. Anyway, like Goatwhiskers says, it's very likely one of a bazillion cheap Belgian pocket pistols from the late 19th Century.
Prior to W.W. I, there were literally hundreds of small gun makers around Liege, Belgium(that's where FN is). All churning out stuff like that. Shotguns too. Usually, if made in Belgium, they had Belgian proof marks though. Without some kind of marking it's impossible to say for sure.
You had the grips off? There might be something under 'em.

[Bill DeShivs]

If it's Belgian there will be proof marks.
Those are pins in the frame, not screws. The frame is made of seperate sides and center-held together by pins, much like the Remingtom Model 6 rifle.
It looks like a well-made gun. Is the barrel rifled?

[StephenCD]

T. O'Heir:

Actually just a moment ago I realized the grips would come off. It uses a hex head screw to hold them on. Weird.
But, alas, nothing underneath.

Bill:
Yes it is rifled, going to add some info I just came up with:

The frame appears to be steel, flat, with-out decoration or markings. The handle appears to be wood and is attached by a hex head screw. Nothing underneath.
The frame itself is three pieces, left side, right side and the main frame which extends from front of trigger guard to butt of hand grip.
Barrel and chamber combined are 4.932 inches. The rifling in the barrel is approximately 4.219 inches with the chamber measuring 0.612 as close as I can tell. Just fitting a .22 long rifle shell, but too deep for a .22 short.
The frame measures 4.85 inches thick on the average (measured just below the hammer, at the hinge, and behind the trigger guard) by 4.276 inches long (from just above the grip to front of hinge).
There are no screws in the frame, or they have been all ground down flat, there is to way to dis-assemble to discern if it is safe to shoot. Although the barrel seems solid.

[StephenCD]

Trying to count the rifling and check the twist but gee, that barrel is small to see into.

[StephenCD]

Lands and grooves are clockwise but forget the count, this little piece has been shot a lot, can barely discern them.

[StephenCD]

GoatWhiskers;

Thanks,
You guessed it, it was hanging on a wall in a shadow wall before it was handed to me. Will likely go right back into that box when I'm done with my research.
I happen to like my fingers and my other pieces would be lonely if I couldn't shoot them.

[RJay]

OK, changed my mind ( needed washed ), if there are no markings on the firearm, I now believe it is US made. Going through Flayderman's I found a number of similar guns but no joy, they all had spur trigger or a different type of release. Relooking at the photos I now believe that trigger guard is very much an American thing. At least for that era and for those types of guns.

[Bill DeShivs]

Again, there are no screws that have been "ground flat." They are and originally were, pins.
Is there a serial number or any markings at all?

[James K]

A Belgian or Spanish gun would have proof marks, a serial number and at least some visible markings. I think it is a one-off, perhaps made as a prototype or by some gun hobbyist with time on his hands. I would think a prototype would have easily removable pins or screws so it could be disassembled to demonstrate the workings, so a hobby product seems more likely.

Jim

[Jim Watson]

Frank deHaas designed guns to be built up from flat stock somewhat like that. I agree it is a hobby shop project.

[mapsjanhere]

I think this gun was badly rusted at some point, and someone removed all the pins that came out and then went to town with a heavy grinder. Explains the difference in appearance between the pins, and the complete lack of markings.

[Bill DeShivs]

Again- the frame of the gun is ASSEMBLED with pins that are peened and finished flat. It's MADE that way!

[hartcreek]

So you can not tell who made it. Lube it and shoot it. Once a spring breaks you can always put it back in the shadow box.

You know it is a .22 so obviously it was made once the .22 was produced so you have an approximate date.

I was common back in the day for those that had more more money to go to the parlor after a meal and smoke a cigar and have a drink and do some parlor shooting.

I think what you have there is a parlor gun built by some unknown maker.

[StephenCD]

I appreciate all the thought folks, I was initially assuming that it was a one time build from a machine shop / garage. With all the searching I've done I haven't come close to finding something to my satisfaction that was even close.
I do believe it was badly rusted at some time due to all the pitting (not really clear in pics) and someone cleaned it off. Perhaps not so gently. There are some striations in the metal that are horizontal, but are smooth, but I don't know if from the cleaning or just the metal used.


RJay: You said "in that era", are you referring to the early 19 century?

[RJay]

It just looks to me, early 20 century.

[hartcreek]

Pietta used to sell a replica called the Pietta Parlor Pistol if you do a search it will come up. The Pietta used a pellet and a cap....thats it.

What you have looks to me to be the 1870 .22 cal version. After doing some more looking I would almost bet that it originally used Flobert cartridges and someon over the years hogged it out.

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/neat-parlor-guns/

[James K]

In general, so-called "parlor pistols" were well made and had fine sights and excellent trigger pulls. Somehow, that doesn't look like it has either. I don't think it is 1870 or anywhere near that old, though I can't really say why. The barrel, hammer and trigger guard look like they came off some other gun(s) or, in other words, out of a gunsmith's or hobbyist's junk box.

Jim

[hartcreek]

Gotta disagree with you James K. There are some parlor guns right now on Gun Broker that are not much better then this one. Dang those little guys are cute and I aint got one yet......

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...=460905710#PIC

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/11498362

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/131203...-9-inch-barrel

http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/showth...-parlor-pistol

http://forum.pafoa.org/pistols-41/15...or-pistol.html

[RJay]

Yes but, the Flobert parlor pistols had no breech block, they used the weight of the hammer or in other versions of the parlor pistols, a small swing over " gate " to contain the pressure of the low power cartridge, the OP's pistol has a solid frame to be used as a breech block which indicates a normal .22, full power cartridge.