The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 9, 2011, 10:04 PM   #1
marks655
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 363
Loads for 45-70 Siamese mauser ?

I recently aquired a very nice conversion (see pics). The handloading manuals vary considerably in terms of heavier loads for 'modern rifles' (beyond the Marlin levergun models). Just how much farther is what I'm interested in.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0389crop.jpg (202.9 KB, 241 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0386crop.jpg (216.1 KB, 211 views)

Last edited by marks655; April 11, 2011 at 07:47 PM.
marks655 is offline  
Old April 25, 2011, 10:32 PM   #2
marks655
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 363
Thanks everyone.....
marks655 is offline  
Old April 25, 2011, 11:04 PM   #3
mehavey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 6,867
See this string:

http://www.outdoorsdirectory.com/akf...ting/61843.htm

The comments from first-to-last (SteveInmi) echo what you will find if you otherwise Google < strength siamese 45-70 >

e.g., http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthr...e_mauser_45_70

Loads must be necessarily appropriate to what the community gauges to be the inherent action strength. Judging by the above, the S-M appears "very" strong.

Somewhere around here I have Vol-II of Ken Waters "Pet Loads" which discusses the Siamese in [email protected] & beyond. Of course it's about now that I can only find Volume-I
mehavey is online now  
Old April 25, 2011, 11:35 PM   #4
mehavey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 6,867
You should also note that Sierra#5 lists their high-powered 45-70 loads as being appropriate for the "Ruger#1 ...and Siamese Mauser"

For calibration, QuickLoad thinks Sierra's Benchmark, H4198, and X-Terminator-based Max loads are 46-48,000psi.

Because QL is rumored to have trouble w/ straight-wall cases, look also at Lyman's#49 which equates the Maximum Benchmark load above to 37,000CUP

Just so we have start a forum brawl, see also < http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/psicuparticle2.pdf > for that CUP--> PSI discussion.
mehavey is online now  
Old April 26, 2011, 03:23 AM   #5
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 15,247
Your Siamese Mauser is as strong as any other Mauser 98 rifle, and will take the high pressure loads listed in your loading manual. It may or may not shoot them well, but it will handle the pressure fine.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Scorch is offline  
Old April 26, 2011, 11:18 AM   #6
Bohica6284
Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2010
Location: SC
Posts: 25
Nice rifle, I built on for myself back when I was in gunsmithing school and it's one of my favorites. Like other Mauser actions, the SM is super strong. Obviously any factory load is safe. I use the same loads in my Marlin 1895 as I do in my SM however the SM likes lighter bullets a lot more than my 1895. The load data you run into that is not for "modern" guns is a safety net for people who are reloading for BP guns. Mausers were always overbuilt and I have fired some very heavy loads in mine including some from Buffalo Bore. Though I have used hard cast 500 and 510 Sledgehammers....the pressures will increase with lead so I tend to stick with jackets bullets though pressures never get very scary with a straight walled case like the Gov't
Bohica6284 is offline  
Old April 26, 2011, 11:27 AM   #7
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,367
"Thanks everyone..... "

Relax.

Sometimes the right people just don't see a thread.

Instead of getting ******, you could have simply booted your question back to the top.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old April 26, 2011, 01:46 PM   #8
roberto mervicini
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2007
Location: Laval, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 151
Hi Marks655,
last year I started the project of making my own 45/70. After I found a bare action of a Siamese Mauser on line, with the help of a two members of this forum, they got me a .458 barrel retread and rechamber and the rest is history.
I made some cartridges using two boolits that I cast from wheel w. water cool, a 350grain gas checks, over IMR 3031 at extimate starting speed of 2000fps , the other a 405grain plain also over IMR 3031 at extimate starting speed of 1300 fps. RP case and WLR primers for both. I say extimate fps since for one reason or one other I did not manage to go and test them out at the range yet. By end june all accuracy and speed test should be completed and if you want I will keep you inform by then.
Regards
________
roberto
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 45-70 gov.jpg (99.7 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg 350grain GC.jpg (101.9 KB, 96 views)
File Type: jpg 405grain.jpg (92.3 KB, 83 views)
roberto mervicini is offline  
Old April 26, 2011, 01:53 PM   #9
rbursek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2011
Location: Milwaukkee, WI
Posts: 152
Both of you have nice looking rifles!!!!!
Bob
rbursek is offline  
Old April 27, 2011, 11:58 AM   #10
rbursek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2011
Location: Milwaukkee, WI
Posts: 152
Hodgdon reloading data list the 45 70 "strong Loads" for the single shot Rugers, Browning, Winchester and the Siamse Mauser.
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

45-70 Government (Modern Rifles)*: These data are for only Ruger No.1 and No.3 single shots, Browning 1885 single shots and Siamese bolt action rifles. Max pressure, 50,000 CUP. Do not use these data in either of the prior two sections of 45-70 data (Trapdoor and Lever Actions).
One of my favorite fun load is 4 150gr lead balls loaded into the 45 70 case.
Bob
rbursek is offline  
Old April 27, 2011, 03:05 PM   #11
hornetguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 14, 2011
Location: on the north side of DFW
Posts: 970
Holy fiddleback....

Both of those rifles have some gorgeous wood on them.
Absolutely gorgeous...


Yes, I'm jealous.
hornetguy is offline  
Old April 27, 2011, 03:07 PM   #12
hornetguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 14, 2011
Location: on the north side of DFW
Posts: 970
Oh, and if I'd seen this posting back when it was first posted, I would have recommended you take the heaviest load listed in a good manual and go with it. I imagine the action can probably take it, from what I've read about their strength.
hornetguy is offline  
Old April 27, 2011, 03:25 PM   #13
aarondhgraham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2009
Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma
Posts: 8,638
I remember these guns,,,

Back in 1976 the Rod & Gun club at my Air Force detachment got three of these in,,,
Man they were some of the most massively heavy rifles I've ever hefted.

In fact I started a thread about them several months back,,,
No one could tell me anything about them though,,,
Possibly because I thought they were Chinese.

Old brain cells fail me every now and then.

Anyways, one of the gun mags ran an article about reloading for them,,,
They toasted a Marlin with a load the mauser easily handled,,,
They tried and could not blow one of them up.

One of the R&G members dropped an elk with one of them,,,
He had loaded some "hot" rounds that the Mauser handled very nicely.

Just anecdotal musings,,,
But I did enjoy finally knowing what those rifles really were.

Aarond
__________________
Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat.
Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once.
Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it?
Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)
aarondhgraham is offline  
Old April 30, 2011, 08:24 PM   #14
marks655
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 363
timing



Thanks for the replies. Was it the 'frowning face' that brought in these posts?

I am sometimes impatient. I have always been that way, but it has become more of an issue during the past few years because I have acute myelogenous leukemia and am undergoing a 2nd stem cell transplant May 3rd. The hourglass may be running low and I hope to get a few extra trips to the range over the next few months.

Thanks again for the replies - and if it looks like this transplant isn't going to work I will likely list this mauser FS (OH) on the TFL for-sale forum.
marks655 is offline  
Old April 30, 2011, 08:26 PM   #15
marks655
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 363
Roberto - that's a really sharp looking rifle you built. And yes, am interested in loading data and ballistics you are willing to share.

- thanks
marks655 is offline  
Old April 30, 2011, 08:39 PM   #16
TJH3781
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2009
Location: Rockford IL
Posts: 149
Very Nice!!!

I had one in 348 Winchester that I traded in a bout of utter stupidity.
Mine also had a classic stock like yours; Fajen I believe.
The wood had about the same figure & would be very expensive to buy today.
TJH3781 is offline  
Old May 2, 2011, 05:43 PM   #17
hornetguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 14, 2011
Location: on the north side of DFW
Posts: 970
marks655.... sorry to hear about your illness. Hopefully the next treatment will do the trick.
Prayers sent...
hornetguy is offline  
Old May 2, 2011, 05:52 PM   #18
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,367
Good luck, Mark.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old May 2, 2011, 09:03 PM   #19
marks655
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 363
Thanks for your kind posts.
marks655 is offline  
Old May 2, 2011, 11:37 PM   #20
roberto mervicini
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2007
Location: Laval, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 151
Mark, best wishes for your treatment.
With pleasure I will PM you the results of my test as soon as I will be able to go to the range.
Best Regards,
roberto
roberto mervicini is offline  
Old June 27, 2011, 01:50 PM   #21
roberto mervicini
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2007
Location: Laval, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 151
finally got around to perform the fire test

Hi, last week I finally fire the gun... nothing to brag about but for the service I will ask to perform is just fine. ( I will hunt bears over bait from 25 to 75 yrd in our woods ) Also by playng with the cartridge O.A.L. maybe I could tight up the group further.
I selected IMR3031 as propeller and the best performance with 350grain wheel w. gas checks boolit was with 54.0 and 55.0 grain load. ( Average speed at 12 ft. from the muzzle was 2230fps.)
The top group is the 54.0grain, aiming at the center of the bull, the lover group is the 55.0 aiming at 6 o'clock of the big red bull
Also test with good results 405 boolit, plain base same powder 42.0 grains load (average speed 1370fps )
_________
roberto
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCF1222.jpg (20.3 KB, 66 views)
roberto mervicini is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.09489 seconds with 11 queries